Muscle Car Prices Rising Again - Stupidity

trippytaka · 24-11-2009, 07:59 PM

OK, so I am going to get smashed here by some... but I honestly don't believe that any Aussie Muscle Car is worth a million bucks. We saw what has happened to the market since the GFC - XY GT Phase IIIs aren't even clearing for 400k.

So, anyway, it looks like prices are on the rise. I say, be careful... just like houses, if you pay too much, you'll get burned. And it looks like prices are about to strt jumping again. Here's my report from the weekend.

AUCTION REPORT

Iggypoppin' · 24-11-2009, 08:10 PM

"aren't even clearing 400k"... I think 400k for an aussie muscle car is incredible..

hendrixhc · 24-11-2009, 08:13 PM

If my XE hits $150k its gone and i am retiring

FPV+fteT3 · 24-11-2009, 08:33 PM

If you buy the right car you can enjoy it for what it is and possibly make a few dollars when you sell it but to buy a car with the intention of it becoming worth heaps of cash in a few years is very risky. The first think to consider is do you really want to own one and then how much are you prepared to pay for that privilege. Even a collectors car rarely used will require $$$$ to simply maintain it as is.

trippytaka · 24-11-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76txcoupe

"aren't even clearing 400k"... I think 400k for an aussie muscle car is incredible..

The AREN'T EVEN part was in relation to the person who paid 750k for a phase three only a year and a half ago before the crash.

The point being that paying that kind of money is ridiculous. Absolutely crazy!

I'm also massively jelous because it's priced people like me out of the market completely... replica XY GTs, built to GT spec (from bases) have been reportedly valued at 100k. I mean, come on! Ten years ago you could pick up a replica GT for $6k, and a genuine phase 3 would set you back 50k.

Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy... or maybe I'm looking at it like housing prices; there's a bubble there that could pop.

Mr X · 24-11-2009, 08:40 PM

Supply and demand?

Every year there are fewer original Muscle cars left and the mystique about these cars grows- as does demand .
If you look at the UK market for RS/BDA Escorts and RS Capris and the US market for classic Mustangs and Cougars the same thing applies...on the up,as economies recover
Watching the Classic Adelaide with a bunch of car nuts young and old-The comment was made-"Old cars felt and sounded fast when you stuck the boot in"-and THATS the appeal-the "theatre" of the musclecar....and of course the tough body shapes,shakers,scoops,stripes and sounds.

It costs what it costs...................

GT0132 · 24-11-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

The AREN'T EVEN part was in relation to the person who paid 750k for a phase three only a year and a half ago before the crash.

The point being that paying that kind of money is ridiculous. Absolutely crazy!

I'm also massively jelous because it's priced people like me out of the market completely... replica XY GTs, built to GT spec (from bases) have been reportedly valued at 100k. I mean, come on! Ten years ago you could pick up a replica GT for $6k, and a genuine phase 3 would set you back 50k.

Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy... or maybe I'm looking at it like housing prices; there's a bubble there that could pop.

I agree there....A lot of us would love one of these old classics but the prices people have paid have priced the average enthusiast right out of the market.

In any case I could think of better things to do with my hard earned.While I'm not too badly off, I don't have a spare Mill laying around to splurge on a 40 year old car that would,in all probability, sit in the garage gathering dust and require security not unlike Fort Knox to ward off potential thieves.

I never took a liking to the XT/XW/XY's when they were released and 40 years on don't think I ever will, but respect the opinions of those that do like them - after all they are an iconic piece of Australian and New Zealand motoring history which can't be denied. Bathurst Monaro's are another story ---pure class IMO but then the prices they are going for are still crazy.

Unfortunately for those that aspire to own one of these classics, I feel the recent downward slide is/was only temporary. They will recover well and be fetching top dollar again soon I believe.

Out of interest does anyone know what type of individuals are buying these cars at such high prices?....Is it high net worth lawyers/doctors looking for a good investment ? or is it real car enthusiasts spending their childrens inheritence?

MO · 24-11-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

I agree there....A lot of us would love one of these old classics but the prices people have paid have priced the average enthusiast right out of the market.

In any case I could think of better things to do with my hard earned.While I'm not too badly off, I don't have a spare Mill laying around to splurge on a 40 year old car that would,in all probability, sit in the garage gathering dust and require security not unlike Fort Knox to ward off potential thieves.

I never took a liking to the XT/XW/XY's when they were released and 40 years on don't think I ever will, but respect the opinions of those that do like them - after all they are an iconic piece of Australian and New Zealand motoring history which can't be denied. Bathurst Monaro's are another story ---pure class IMO but then the prices they are going for are still crazy.

Unfortunately for those that aspire to own one of these classics, I feel the recent downward slide is/was only temporary. They will recover well and be fetching top dollar again soon I believe.

Out of interest does anyone know what type of individuals are buying these cars at such high prices?....Is it high net worth lawyers/doctors looking for a good investment ? or is it real car enthusiasts spending their childrens inheritence?

The last P3 I heard of went to bloke in Emerald Qld and from memory was either a cotton farmer or trucking owner. He was adding to his already sizable collection and paid just shy of the magic million.

metalmania · 25-11-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

The last P3 I heard of went to bloke in Emerald Qld and from memory was either a cotton farmer or trucking owner. He was adding to his already sizable collection and paid just shy of the magic million.

That wouldn't be a red one from Melbourne, would it?

pottery beige · 24-11-2009, 09:32 PM

The over inflated market spurned on the dodgy little cottage industry of fake's, re-shell's etc alot of really rough one's soon became really nice one's real quick. Big dollar's were to be made and now big dollar's are at risk if purchasing as there are plenty of these not quite right muscle car's out there.. IMO it's BS that alot of every day people have been priced out of the market.. And for the record i'm not a rich dude, i picked up my XA's for peanut's back when you couldn't give the old bomb's away..

Wally · 24-11-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

.....I never took a liking to the XT/XW/XY's when they were released and 40 years on don't think I ever will, but respect the opinions of those that do like them - after all they are an iconic piece of Australian and New Zealand motoring history which can't be denied. Bathurst Monaro's are another story ---pure class IMO but then the prices they are going for are still crazy.

.....?

Sure the Monaro's were a sleek beautiful looking car, but the HO had menacing presence. My three favourite looking Oz cars in order : XYHO, XU-1, Monaro. Second Tier would be the R&S Series Valiant and the XP Coupe. Can't fathom the prices people are paying though.

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 08:11 PM

Why does it matter what you pay for them? Some people are prepared to pay what it takes for the love and enjoyment of these rare classics.
People who buy cars purely as investments are fools...

Auslandau · 24-11-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

OK, so I am going to get smashed here by some... but I honestly don't believe that any Aussie Muscle Car is worth a million bucks. We saw what has happened to the market since the GFC - XY GT Phase IIIs aren't even clearing for 400k.
if you pay too much, you'll get burned

I dont know of any that have sold at or near 1 mill. But if one does, good luck to the buyer and seller. It would mean that the buyer wanted it and the owner accepted the price ..... win win. If anyone buys a car .... and they love it ... and they can afford it .... then they have never ever paid too much. Supply & demand. It gets annoying if someone says .... "Did I pay too much for this XB"?

Those that buy these things will NEVER get burned IF they buy because of a passion and have the money to back their enthusiesm. If they buy to make money ..... refer below but those days are gone and was a period that lasted a very short time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Why does it matter what you pay for them? Some people are prepared to pay what it takes for the love and enjoyment of these rare classics.
People who buy cars purely as investments are fools...

I agree .... BUT .... if you can pick one up at the right time and price, unlike 97% of other cars, they shouldn't devalue and that in itself is a huge bonus.

| [/url] |

tezxr8man · 24-11-2009, 08:53 PM

if you look at the prices for say a all original unmolested GT500 then you look at a phase 3 you can understand the value a little more. they made thousands of GT500's and a max of 300 Phase 3's. then have a look at the equivelent cars in the states, your cobra's and GT40's and BB corvettes and see what they're worth, without even looking to europe. sure you may not look at them as in the same league but they are the best we have and at a mill they are still a bargain jus remember if you put a ferrari and a phase 3 round say Bathurst at the end there would be nothing in it
I actually remember a test in a wheels mag from the late 70's where they put a HO agains the current Ferrari with 7 years between them and the ferrari was only 3 tenths a lap in front

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 09:20 PM

My friends who have musclecar collections are 35-45 yo successful small business owners with a passion for musclecars and excess disposable income.. They own their collections outright.
I have 4 friends with P3's who fit this description. the GFC didnt effect them at all, none of them are interested in selling so relative market values mean nothing to them.

GT0132 · 24-11-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

none of them are interested in selling so relative market values mean nothing to them.

Yeah but hypothetically it would be damned heartbreaking to have forked out say $300k (using $300 for the sake of a number) only to learn that, a year later, your purchase is only worth, say $200k...on any asset for that matter , not necessarily a car you're passionate about

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Yeah but hypothetically it would be damned heartbreaking to have forked out say $300k (using $300 for the sake of a number) only to learn that, a year later, your purchase is only worth, say $200k

Look at share values.. they will return and grow over time, you only loose money if you sell during a slump!!

GT0132 · 24-11-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Look at share values.. they will return and grow over time, you only loose money if you sell during a slump!!

Sure but I, like a lot of others, cringed when I looked at my FY2009 super fund statement...Not something I shrugged off as a minor life event.

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Sure but I, like a lot of others, cringed when I looked at my FY2009 super fund statement...Not something I shrugged off as a minor life event.

You only lost money if you need to access your super!!!!!!, otherwise ride it out and they will recover.

irish2 · 24-11-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Sure but I, like a lot of others, cringed when I looked at my FY2009 super fund statement...Not something I shrugged off as a minor life event.

2009 resulted in 10% down for my fund. 2007 20% up, 2008 20% up. It isn't a loss unless you make it one. Can't forget the good times when recalling the bad ones.

potsyfromparkes · 30-11-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Look at share values.. they will return and grow over time, you only loose money if you sell during a slump!!

Exactly; I could not say it better. The same goes for people who play the stock exchange. Laughing all the way to the bank for years with the returns they got but started whingeing when the going got tough two years ago. You can't have it both ways and you can't win all the time.

xy500 · 24-11-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Yeah but hypothetically it would be damned heartbreaking to have forked out say $300k (using $300 for the sake of a number) only to learn that, a year later, your purchase is only worth, say $200k...on any asset for that matter , not necessarily a car you're passionate about

well if you bought the car for love of the car, not its monetary value. You wouldn't care at all what anyone else thought it was worth. If you view cars as assets your just confused

auxr · 25-11-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

My friends who have musclecar collections are 35-45 yo successful small business owners with a passion for musclecars and excess disposable income.. They own their collections outright.
I have 4 friends with P3's who fit this description. the GFC didnt effect them at all, none of them are interested in selling so relative market values mean nothing to them.

Totally agree, these are the people that have the spare cash to indulge their passion and are the right type of enthusiast that will specifically look after these rare vehicles for the future, I would assume that profit would not be a considering factor - having the car and enjoying it would be the prime consideration.

XR Martin · 24-11-2009, 09:25 PM

Spending $400k on an XY GT is probably better economical sense than say spending the same on a Aston Martin DB9

justbrett · 24-11-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Spending $400k on an XY GT is probably better economical sense than say spending the same on a Aston Martin DB9

Clarkson would likely disagree

flappist · 25-11-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Spending $400k on an XY GT is probably better economical sense than say spending the same on a Aston Martin DB9

That really depends of what you want to do.

If you want to drive and enjoy a supercar then buy the DB9.

If you want to look at and very occasionally drive (but not too far as you will get too many liles on it and not on the road in case some one hits it and not on a track as it will be uninsured and not when it it reaing as it will get wet and not early morning or evening as it will get bugs on it and not anywhere away from the freeway as it might get stone chips) it the buy a collectable.

There are many people in retirement villages with stories of their art or antique or stamp or car or whatever collections that they sold for a fortune and now have huge amounts of money that they can't do anything with.

There are also many people in the same situation with bugger all money but memories and stories of the amazing fun crazy adventurous and costly things they did during their life.

Which one do you want to be?

RedHotGT · 25-11-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

That really depends of what you want to do.

If you want to drive and enjoy a supercar then buy the DB9.

If you want to look at and very occasionally drive (but not too far as you will get too many liles on it and not on the road in case some one hits it and not on a track as it will be uninsured and not when it it reaing as it will get wet and not early morning or evening as it will get bugs on it and not anywhere away from the freeway as it might get stone chips) it the buy a collectable.

There are many people in retirement villages with stories of their art or antique or stamp or car or whatever collections that they sold for a fortune and now have huge amounts of money that they can't do anything with.

There are also many people in the same situation with bugger all money but memories and stories of the amazing fun crazy adventurous and costly things they did during their life.

Which one do you want to be?

You know what Flappist.... I usually like arguing with your opinions... But I agree with you 100% on the above....

I'm a Gen Y - and I will be building a muscle car collection for my 3 sons and I to enjoy in the future....
Some of them will be just basic classics and some will be mighty muscle cars... And honestly the only time I will care about the $$$ is when I buy them... because once I buy them - I WILL NOT BE SELLING THEM....

and I will always hold the "GT" significant in my heart, as I would hope anyone that is remotely interested in cars.....

So, to respond to the quote above... I KNOW which one I WILL be

GT0132 · 25-11-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

You know what Flappist.... I usually like arguing with your opinions... But I agree with you 100% on the above....

I'm a Gen Y - and I will be building a muscle car collection for my 3 sons and I to enjoy in the future....
Some of them will be just basic classics and some will be mighty muscle cars... And honestly the only time I will care about the $$$ is when I buy them... because once I buy them - I WILL NOT BE SELLING THEM....

and I will always hold the "GT" significant in my heart, as I would hope anyone that is remotely interested in cars.....

So, to respond to the quote above... I KNOW which one I WILL be

Mate , looking at your signature you seem to be off to a flying start....Well done and good luck

RedHotGT · 25-11-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Mate , looking at your signature you seem to be off to a flying start....Well done and good luck

Flying Start - maybe not....
I doubt whether the daily drivers will ever turn out to be classics (though in retrospect i'm sure that was the same thought of most in the 70s)

I've already got my collection penned out.... I've just gotta find the cars.... and the cash....
Basically I need 4 x cars.... One for each son, and my own...

Car#1 - Calypso XA GT 4-door (be it mock or real) just like the Phase IV
Car#2 - ZH Fairlane 351 (must have vinyl roof for that retro look) Colour is not important at this stage
Car#3 - Landau Coupe (darker original colour preferred)
Car#4 - 1968 Dodge Charger (Hemi looker, with the rear hoop/stripe and pref 440ci... though a 318ci will do)

That would do me I reckons.... I reckon I could get that all together for less than $100,000 (current financial climate)....

Gives a broad range of classics.... Granpda cruiser, Go fast GT, Tough Coupe, and American Muscle (that ISN'T a MUSTANG or a 57CHEV)....

trippytaka · 25-11-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Spending $400k on an XY GT is probably better economical sense than say spending the same on a Aston Martin DB9

True that! I agree with that one 100%. It's just a shame you have to pay half a mill to get a phase 3 :(