2008 Paris Motor Show: Falcon put on hold

[Go baby Go]

Does anyone know anything about this?

2008 Paris Motor Show: Falcon put on hold
| October 3, 2008
FROM THE FLOOR - Ford insider has dropped a bombshell at today's Paris show media day, telling Robbo that even the Falcon is being re-evaluated.


Ford's new global rear wheel drive program, including the all-new Falcon due in 2013, is now "on hold" to raise further doubts about the long term future of the locally manufactured and designed Falcon.

The next Falcon was to be part of a massive new program to replace the old Lincoln Town Car, Mercury Marquis and Ford Crown Victoria with an all-new architecture to be jointly developed in Dearborn and Broadmeadows.

In July/August the then accelerating American financial crisis forced a complete re-evaluation of Ford's resources and lead to the current decision to prioritize development of a range of big front drive models based on existing platforms.

An ex-Ford designer (who commented on condition of anonymity) who worked on the program confirmed to Wheels that Ford has put the entire program "on hold".

"It was a global program, in which Australia played an important role. The decision for the Falcon was what form it would take and how much of the 'top hat" (body design) would be unique to the Falcon. They were looking at how to fit Falcon in with the American cars and to see if it could be exported to America.

"Dearborn favoured a (BMW) 5-series sized car (that is significantly shorter than the Falcon). If you plot the 5-Series over the decades, you'll see it remains much the same size, although it has recently been under pressure from the C Class/the much bigger looking new A4 and the 3-Series, which have all grown. The Falcon is outside that, because it is bigger on the inside and has a shorter wheelbase."

"The market turned down (for the Falcon) in Australia and now the US, and now they are looking at what could be achieved in front drive."

"Don't get me wrong, the (rear drive) cars are good enough that I think they could go back to it," he said.

When asked to comment, new Ford Australia boss Marin Burela told Wheels, "No decision has been made one way or the other. Like all things in our business we are looking at everything.

“Three years ago, who would have thought that we would be making small cars in America or the Focus in Broadmeadows (in 2010). The answer is, we need to look at everything going on - but it is not appropriate to say there is no longer a fit for a large rear drive car in Australia. We are evaluating everything."

"The world is changing, the focus at the moment is on fuel and emissions, we want to become more relevant for our customers when they are making choices."

I know it says "an Ex Ford person" so is it more than likley someone who really doesn't know anything or could it have merit? I'm just wondering if it is true?

[mr smith]

Lets just say a "mate of a mate" told me about this a while ago. It's not all lies, except maybe Marin Burela's comments, a decision has been made. Look at it like a painting, the outline for Fords future has been drawn it's now just a matter of coloring between the lines.
Ford are looking at cars that sell, not at history, or the "enthusiast" who drives a 10 year old falcon. The bottom line is profit /share prices and they will do whatever is required.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Lets just say a "mate of a mate" told me about this a while ago. It's not all lies, except maybe Marin Burela's comments, a decision has been made. Look at it like a painting, the outline for Fords future has been drawn it's now just a matter of coloring between the lines.
Ford are looking at cars that sell, not at history, or the "enthusiast" who drives a 10 year old falcon. The bottom line is profit /share prices and they will do whatever is required.

What large FWD car has sold in this country while there has been a RWD competitor?
Ford aren't going to be able to covert this market. They aren't good enough to get people into Modeos or Focus FWD products let alone anything any bigger.
This is very simple. No large rear wheel drive platform in this country, don’t both competing in the segment.
Stick to the Focus and smaller products and be done with it.
Want proof. Start a poll and see who would by a FWD Falcon!

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Start a poll and see who would by a FWD Falcon!

Poll added, this may be interesting.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Poll added, this may be interesting.

I reckon you could have gone further with the poll on the no side.

[mr smith]

Stick to the Focus and smaller products and be done with it.

Could be onto something.

[mr smith]

Lets add that the original post mentions Falcon on hold. If there is RWD it will be Falcon, as FWD badged as something else.

[fmc351]

49 million* cars sold worldwide in 06 and again in 07. Somehow I think Ford shareholders will care more about how to get 1% more of that (490,000 additional units), than keep a RWD in Australia because enthusiasts think its awesome.
http://www.metrics2.com/blog/2006/12...es_no3_re.html


I voted no, but Ford dont give a rats what I or you think.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


*some of the numbers include light trucks, but you get the picture.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by fmc351

49 million* cars sold worldwide in 06 and again in 07. Somehow I think Ford shareholders will care more about how to get 1% more of that (490,000 additional units), than keep a RWD in Australia because enthusiasts think its awesome.
http://www.metrics2.com/blog/2006/12...es_no3_re.html


I voted no, but Ford dont give a rats what I or you think.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


*some of the numbers include light trucks, but you get the picture.

Someone is listening.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by fmc351

49 million* cars sold worldwide in 06 and again in 07. Somehow I think Ford shareholders will care more about how to get 1% more of that (490,000 additional units), than keep a RWD in Australia because enthusiasts think its awesome.
http://www.metrics2.com/blog/2006/12...es_no3_re.html


I voted no, but Ford dont give a rats what I or you think.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


*some of the numbers include light trucks, but you get the picture.

That’s not the issue. The issue is will a large front wheel drive sedan and Ute sell in this country. The answer is an unequivocal no.

They can go for their global sales increase but here is the tip. It won’t come from this segment and on the numbers there is no point considering importing the platform here. A Falcon FWD will not be able to compete with a rear drive Commodore.
This business is like match racing. The only alternative is to withdraw from the market because the business case to import these cars won’t be supported for such a low volume

Like I have said. The only way there will be a case to import a large Front wheel drive sedan and call it a Falcon is if Holden have dropped their RWD platform.
Mondeo sold around 440 units. How is a Falcon badged car going to increase volume on this model?

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by HSE2

That’s not the issue. The issue is will a large front wheel drive sedan and Ute sell in this country. The answer is an unequivocal no.

They can go for their global sales increase but here is the tip. It won’t come from this segment and on the numbers there is no point considering importing the platform here. A Falcon FWD will not be able to compete with a rear drive Commodore.
This business is like match racing. The only alternative is to withdraw from the market because the business case to import these cars won’t be supported for such a low volume

Like I have said. The only way there will be a case to import a large Front wheel drive sedan and call it a Falcon is if Holden have dropped their RWD platform.
Mondeo sold around 440 units. How is a Falcon badged car going to increase volume on this model?

As I said, I voted no, but that is just personal preference. I just qualified that remark, and vote.

In the end, Ford wont make a large car then. Ford wont pump money into further developing something simply for Aus unless it offers not simply a positive return, but the best return. If it has world appeal, then they will, its about best returns on the investment. Sure, if Ford is making a profit on a RWD Falcon in Aus, an argument can be made that its worth it, it has a positive return on investment. But when you consider in order to do that Ford has to pump funds in, those same funds could deliver a better return invested elsewhere. Ford, like all companies have limited resources, it may be a large resource, but it isnt endless.


To make it easier, lets say you have $100k, and you have a choice to earn a return on one investment of say 10%, or another investment with no more risk and get 25%. Which would you choose to pump your money into? Ford shareholders are no different.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by HSE2

What large FWD car has sold in this country while there has been a RWD competitor?
Ford aren't going to be able to covert this market. They aren't good enough to get people into Modeos or Focus FWD products let alone anything any bigger.
This is very simple. No large rear wheel drive platform in this country, don’t both competing in the segment.
Stick to the Focus and smaller products and be done with it.
Want proof. Start a poll and see who would by a FWD Falcon!

Aurion.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Conrad

Aurion.

It’s been probably the best but no it hasn't sold in volume that would classify it a success in this segment.

For Toyota, probably because it has added incremental sales in a segment they have failed at but for Ford to look at Aurion numbers and think they could better them just because it was called a Falcon, well that a stretch. If you said Aurion was at 50% of RWD Falcon sales, that is probably where you would expect a FWD Falcon to sit on average. That number wouldn’t work.

[Cuey]

Most of you boofheads on here are missing the point all together.

THE FALCON IS NOT SELLING - Ford Australia cannot afford to invest $500 million each 7-8 years, for a car that will only sell 3000 - 3500 a month, and that's an optimistic figure. We've just had a brand new falcon go on sale, the best ever, and I love it, but the fact is that it's not selling enough to make a business case for it.

Unfortunately history does not matter, enthusiasts do not matter, the bottom line is the bottom dollar - Are we making a profit? If the answer is no, then things must change.

As much as i'm a blue blooded ford fan, love my V8's, love the turbo sixes and love the RWD, i'm also a realist.

The reality is that we will not see another home grown Falcon ever again.

Did someone mention Focus????

[TC200six]

I voted no, I do not want them to abolish RWD Falcon!

FWD Ford Falcon - Australia Says NO!

[MAGPIE]

No way would I buy a RWD Falcon

There are three reasons why I buy Falcons

Size
Power
Rear Wheel Drive

If they turn the Falcon into bum dragger's I'll buy the last of the model and keep it till I die.

[The Mighty Red]

I voted NO without hesitation, Australians as a whole dont want front wheel drive cars.....they were practically giving the magna away and still couldnt sell it

[seduced_xr]

we better start stocking up on FG/BF falcons and storing them :P. once they make FWD thatll be it.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by seduced_xr

we better start stocking up on FG/BF falcons and storing them :P. once they make FWD thatll be it.

Have you been to a dealer lately? They are so full its not funny, they're doing the stocking for us!!

Anywho

As for the quote of Commodore is doing soo much better:
Ford Falcon 3,123
Ford Falcon Ute 1,149
Ford Territory 933
= 5205 Units

Holden Caprice 89
Holden Commodore 4,462
Holden Statesman 187
Holden Utility 4X2 914
= 5652 Units

Not that much better. And 1400 units of commo sales is apparently the wagon. They are getting along with exports but the recent high aussie doller hurt them there. Like stated earlier there is a worldwide market for RWD cars, let us design the platform (we can build in small units with the Focus) let the yanks do theirs, share the cost and see if FoA can export to the middle east.

Seriously just finish the Falcon off if its going FWD. They have already tarnished the model with the V6 dont turn it into a Camry wanna be.

If this forum was about the time Ford dropped the V8 in the Falcon I reackon we would be getting alot of the same responses.

[Swordsman88]

HSE has made some very logical, and totally believable comments above. While Ford will no doubt develop a large FWD/AWD platform (Mondeo, taurus, volvo etc.) for the new generation cars to move to, the suggestion that falcon will be FWD is ridiculous. HSE and others have provided many reasons but allow me to provide my two cents (in point form).

1. There will be a GRWD platform. Don't know when, where developed, dimensions etc, but it is inevitable. Falcon, mustang, crown vic, large SUV, these cannot be on a FWD/AWD platform and wouldn't make economic sense anyway (it wouldn't be big enough). Crown Vic buyers alone (which is the size of fairlaine) demand that much.
2. If a FWD large platform were forced on ford aus, it would just be a mondeo, which they would call just that. Build it here or not, it aint going to be called falcon (marketers can tell you that much, too much backlash). The falcon name would be consigned to history.
3. RWD sells cars, well in australia anyway. Ford Aus will make the simple case that falcon needs to be on a GRWD not GFWD platform....top hat with common engines etc. Much better return on investment, since it will actually sell.
4. Falcon ute and territory are part of the whole equation, and contribute, as noted above, 2000-2500 sales a month....so you can make a case for australian made and designed cars off the GRWD, as long as the changes aren't too extensive and common parts are used with overseas models (suspension, architecture, engines, gearboxes etc.).

While you can't gurantee the falcon will be made in aus, or that it will even exist beyond 2013, if it does it WILL BE RWD! This is its purpose, and as HSE noted without RWD it would be masacred in the market place.

I think people interpret the comments made by CEOs (who are really just doing due diligence to the US shareholders by considering all options) far too literally. In the end the options would most likey be:

1. GRWD developed in aus off the current Falcon to suit a range of RWD/AWD vehicles, from sports to suv. Falcon build either here or US, but retains basic architecure we have now.
2. Ford Falcon, Mustang, Crown Vic and explorer/territory onto FWD taurus/mondeo/volvo platform. Falcon built wherever.....

Option 1 saves money on current development dollars but retains or improves sales. Optoin 2 saves even more money than option 1, but almost certainly results in significant drop in sales particularly for crown vic (middle east) and falcon (australia).

Put like that i reckon the choice comes down to how much you can save. Given the cheap as chips development budget ford aus works with i reckon they can do option 1 for pittance.....its just what we have now. I dont' see what all the fuss is about......

[Serial_Fool]

Motoring post 2013 just got a whole lot dimmer....

Eventually we knew this was going to happen folks. This isn't the 70's where we can go off and design our own car without any signicant outside influence. The Americans set Ford AUS on a journey through an endless desert with the styling of the AU and are coming back with a shotgun to finish it off. Falcon will die at the hands of the people who gave birth to it...the Yanks.

Falcon goes FWD, I go Holden.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by The Mighty Red

I voted NO without hesitation, Australians as a whole dont want front wheel drive cars.....they were practically giving the magna away and still couldnt sell it

Australians do buy front wheel drive cars. The market for the large wheel drive segment is shrinking and will continue to shrink.

With products like the Mondeo the question for Ford must be how would a FWD Falcon offer anything more?

I Ford bothered to import the full spec Mondeo it would surpass the G6E easily in terms of features and appointments. The front wheel drive Falcon is already here. There really isn't that much in terms of size.

[irlewy86]

Would I buy a FWD Falcon if it was light years above the competition. YES
Would I buy a FWD Falcon if it was similar to Aurion/380/Mazda 6. NO
Would I buy a FWD Falcon Ute. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would I continue buying RWD. YES

If their is no longer a business case for RWD then I can't argue with the decision to axe it. But the car that replaces it better be a marked improvement. If it only delivers the marginal space/ecconomy improvements like the current Aurion does whats the bleeding point?

[Elks]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

the marginal space/ecconomy improvements like the current Aurion does whats the bleeding point?

We have Aurions at work and I can see NO place where it is better than a Falcon.

It has more KW at 7000rpm.
It is narrower in the cabin.
It has terrible blindspots.
Soft floating suspension.
Turning circle of a small truck.
Steering column seems to be made of rubber.
It may have a slightly larger boot but the shape of a Falcon is more useful.

At this point the voting is 61 to 9in favor of RWD. 9 voted FWD!! I know Ford have developed some groovy double knucke front end that stops torque steer. But this is a consevative segment of the market (remember FPV still sell more V8's than T6's depite the turbo being faster) and should be treated with great care.

I will not be buying a front wheel drive anything as long as their is a RWD alternative.

[Melz]

I wouldn't buy a FWD Falcon... but then again I don't think I would buy a new Falcon either :(

[Jason[98.EL]]

voted no

i hate to think what the falcon would be like if it went fwd

i know i only have an el but i do hope it stays rear wheel drive in the hope i can purchase a new falcon one day

Grimus

[Powdered Toast Man]

I guess I'll start off the affirmative posts. I would buy a FWD Falcon but not a performance model. But only as long as it is still a good handling car. i.e. Magna/380 like not like the Camry.

But I'm actually in agreement with Mel at the moment, I don't think I would buy a new Falcon at this point in my life RWD or FWD, or Commy or any large car. My BA is too big for my needs but the 3V keeps enticing me to drive it :evil3:

[Redrum]

I would never purchase a front wheel drive car for myself of any manufacturer!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Redrum

I would never purchase a front wheel drive car for myself of any manufacturer!

Ditto

[GTP534]

I voted yes, but I need to qualify it. If we're talking a Ford Taurus type of FWD Falcon then forget it. But if we're talking Mondeo based that's a different story. I've seen the Mondeo here in Brunei and it is a decent looking car, a good size and well equipped. I'm sure if Broadmeadows has input a FWD Falcon would have best in class handling. The other thing is, if they go FWD wouldn't that leave the way open for high performance AWD variants?

But, as someone who was brought up in the 60's and 70's it would be a sad day for me if the RWD Falcon bit the dust.