One-armed woman "driven" to despair.

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 09:59 AM

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226064647632

Quote:

A ONE-ARMED woman is grappling with WA transport authorities to be allowed to drive a manual car, despite a decade behind the wheel in the eastern states.

Lisa Murray, who lost the use of her arm in 1993 due to a nerve condition and had the arm amputated several years later, has been driving a manual car with no modifications since 2001 in Queensland.

But since moving to Harvey in the South-West two months ago, she has been told that she can only get a licence for an automatic car and would need to pay at least $500 for a special test. It is money she says she doesn't have.

Ms Murray said she has proved she can drive a manual car with one arm. She drove across three states on her own to settle in Harvey, pregnant and towing a trailer............

This scares the crap out of me as she was tested and they thought it was ok for her to steer with her legs during gear changes?? WTF

I`m all for people with disabilities doing everyday things but when there are cars with automatic gearboxes then common sense should prevail.

2011G6E · 30-05-2011, 10:12 AM

Jesus christ you dumb *****...do every other road user a favour and buy a damn automatic!!!

How the hell did they let her damn well drive a manual anyway?

People with disabilities should indeed be able to do everyday things...unless by trying to prove they are "just like everyone else" (when they aren't) they are putting everyone else at risk and just have to be told "no"...it might sound hard hearted, but that's the blunt truth...

fmc351 · 30-05-2011, 10:19 AM

I used to know a guy who had both arms, but one was for decoration only (left), he wasnt able to drive manual in Qld.

I agree, drive an auto, or catch a bus.

Edit: Apparently she has been approved in Qld by the DMT, all I can say is what the hell is wrong with you people at the DMT in Qld?

2011G6E · 30-05-2011, 10:26 AM

Just thinking about the logistics of it boggles the mind...if it's the left arm she has, how does she fiddle with the indicators and other dash controls on the right side while driving in traffic? If it's the right arem she has, how the hell does she reach across and operate the gearshift and the contols on the left side of the column and dash?

To think that she's out in traffic doing this juggling act while driving a car just stuns me...

iCat · 30-05-2011, 10:26 AM

she steered with her knees while changing gears? god help us if she hits a pot hole at that moment.

just suck it up and get an auto. if you can't afford it save like the rest of us have to.

kaniSS · 30-05-2011, 10:39 AM

You know what's funny she probably will get the licence. Cause it would be politically incorrect to refuse her equal opportunities.

Next it will be a guy with no arms going for a manual licence.

fmc351 · 30-05-2011, 11:01 AM

Whats next, blind truckies?

wait, err ...umm, yeah ... ummm something.

blackf6 · 30-05-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Whats next, blind truckies?

wait, err ...umm, yeah ... ummm something.

more like impatient car drivers over taking trucks over double lines and around blind corners. thank god she never came near my tanker. i have 2 mates that only have one arm, and their vehicles have a knob on the steering wheel like a forklift and the blinkers and light controls are moved to the side that their arm is that still works and their cars have to be auto. i am glad they finally caught up with her. what has obviously happened with this woman is that her arm was injured after she obtained her manual licence and she continued to drive un noticed by the authorities, there is no way they would of just let her, simple.

SEZ213 · 30-05-2011, 11:27 AM

What the hell is the $500 for? In addition to an automatic test - seems like someone is just collecting cash for no reason.

I would actually like to see how she does it before I pass judgement, because I doubt it would be any different to the way some other people drive.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 12:00 PM

If she can pass the test then she is allowed to drive.

Last AFF skid pan day I went to showed that more than half the attendees were not capable of controllong their cars on wet surfaces.
Should they be banned form driving just in case it rains?

Being somewhat "challenged" behind the wheel is no reason to not hold a license, if it were there would be less than ten percent of the cars on the road........

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

If she can pass the test then she is allowed to drive.

Last AFF skid pan day I went to showed that more than half the attendees were not capable of controllong their cars on wet surfaces.
Should they be banned form driving just in case it rains?

Being somewhat "challenged" behind the wheel is no reason to not hold a license, if it were there would be less than ten percent of the cars on the road........

I agree but I think the point was more why endanger others when it would be so much easier to use an automatic in her case.

Also it was far easier to get your license back in 1993 in some areas of Queensland as some smaller towns may have been sympathetic her to her disability. I have personally heard of this happening as I got mine back in 1985 up in FNQ and the tester told me some great true stories.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

I agree but I think the point was more why endanger others when it would be so much easier to use an automatic in her case.

Also it was far easier to get your license back in 1993 in some areas of Queensland as some smaller towns may have been sympathetic her to her disability. I have personally heard of this happening as I got mine back in 1985 up in FNQ and the tester told me some great true stories.

Sort of like "Why endanger others by driving old technology motor vehicles that are not fitted with crumple zones, air bags, ABS or DSC?"
It would be so much safer to get rid of all the pre 2000 Falcons and drive hybrid camrys instead.......

XB GS 351 Coupe · 30-05-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Sort of like "Why endanger others by driving old technology motor vehicles that are not fitted with crumple zones, air bags, ABS or DSC?"
It would be so much safer to get rid of all the pre 2000 Falcons and drive hybrid camrys instead.......

You really are the master of coming up with stupid and pointless comparisons

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

We are all taught to keep two hands on our steering wheel etc etc.

See people with two arms can still keep one hand on the wheel while they change gears, scratch their nose, wipe sweat off their fore head, wipe their nose after sneezing etc etc, something a person with one arm can not do.

Not every person should be able to drive a car, holding a license should be a privilege earned, it should not be a right. I want to play Basketball in the NBL, but it's not going to happen no matter how much I want it, driving a car should be the same, not everyone is capable of driving and controlling a vehicle, and this is proven daily on our streets.

If she can not afford $500 for a driving test may be she can not afford to drive a car, how does she go servicing her vehicle paying for rego and insurance and ongoing running cost etc etc if she can not afford a one off driving test at $500

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You really are the master of coming up with stupid and pointless comparisons

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

We are all taught to keep two hands on our steering wheel etc etc.

See people with two arms can still keep one hand on the wheel while they change gears, scratch their nose, wipe sweat off their fore head, wipe their nose after sneezing etc etc, something a person with one arm can not do.

Not every person should be able to drive a car, holding a license should be a privilege earned, it should not be a right. I want to play Basketball in the NBL, but it's not going to happen no matter how much I want it, driving a car should be the same, not everyone is capable of driving and controlling a vehicle, and this is proven daily on our streets.

If she can not afford $500 for a driving test may be she can not afford to drive a car, how does she go servicing her vehicle paying for rego and insurance and ongoing running cost etc etc if she can not afford a one off driving test at $500

So you get upset when my comparison would affect you.....

I am not saying she has the right to drive, I am saying she has the right to do the test.

If she fails then she cannot drive a manual, if she passes then she will have demonstrated the same minimum skill as anyone else who passes the test.

It is ironic that on a forum that contains more than a few threads complaining about prejudice against and villification of car enthusiasts there is so much prejudice against others.

She has just as much right to sit for that test as the classic car owners here have of restoring written off or rusted cars to roadworthy.

In both cases if they pass they are allowed on the road.

Or should the greenie tree huggers be allowed to prevent any "high carbon footprint" vehicles being restored?

RedHotGT · 30-05-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

So what you're saying is because she only has one arm - she shouldn't have the choice of what she drives?

If she passes the test - the same test that is given to those with 2 arms - and doesn't fail using the same criteria as everyone else - then how can anyone tell her she can't drive a manual?

I have a family member that is blind (one eye removed, other has between 3-5% vision) and that person has a valid drivers license, and they recently sat the test to get a boat license....

Do you think my family member should be driving a car, or a boat??
Whether or not you think they should or shouldn't - according to the law and the valid license they hold - its legal.

Is it logical for a one armed woman to be driving a manual car - probably not... But who's to say she doesn't drive safer than some people with 2 arms???

StealthAu · 30-05-2011, 12:10 PM

By law you are required to have one hand on the wheel at all times, or so I thought, if that is the case then she simply can not drve a manual without breaking the law.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthAu

By law you are required to have one hand on the wheel at all times, or so I thought, if that is the case then she simply can not drve a manual without breaking the law.

You have an actual reference for that?

StealthAu · 30-05-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You have an actual reference for that?

No I don't which is why I included the "so I thought" comment. But I'm pretty sure I have come accross it before, will have to have a look and let you know.

EasyD · 30-05-2011, 12:59 PM

"Ms Murray said she has proved she can drive a manual car with one arm. She drove across three states on her own to settle in Harvey, pregnant and towing a trailer............"

Hats off!

Supercharged · 30-05-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyD

"Ms Murray said she has proved she can drive a manual car with one arm. She drove across three states on her own to settle in Harvey, pregnant and towing a trailer............"

Hats off!

Just because she did doesn’t mean she should, any sort of an emergency situation where she needs to turn the steering wheel and drop down a gear quickly would have her struggling to maintain control.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthAu

No I don't which is why I included the "so I thought" comment. But I'm pretty sure I have come accross it before, will have to have a look and let you know.

Possibly it is like the "under no circumstances can you legally exceed the speed limit" dogma hammered into all learner drivers even though it is completely untrue.

ToCo · 30-05-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You have an actual reference for that?

Here is a somewhat of a reference from a quick google search...

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/as...11_Part_D1.pdf

"NOTE: One hand or the other MUST have a firm grip of the steering wheel at ALL TIMES when the vehicle is in motion - otherwise your vehicle is not under safe and proper control."
Now I am guessing that you could not pass a test if the car is not under safe and proper control...
Page 77

2011G6E · 30-05-2011, 08:51 PM

So...does that mean the fine I almost got (it was a long talk with Mr Plod...) for riding my motorbike with no hands on the bars shouldn't have even got to the "roadside chat" stage?

Sounds fricking dangerous doesn't it...why the hell would you ride with no hands on the bars!! You idiot!!!

I was on a long stretch of straight highway, one hand on the bars, one resting on my knee giving the hand a stretch (they cramp up after an hour or so after a crash many years back), and briefly took my right hand off the throttle while the throttle lock was on, and adjusted the mirror slightly, then put the hand back on the bars. A motorbike is basically two big gyroscopes and wants to stay upright once it's moving.

Anyway, Plod was coming the other way, saw this, pulled me over, and luckily only gave me a stern lecture.
How is this different to Mrs Don't-Oppress-Me up there in that article? despite all the crap about "good on her" and "stop picking on her", does anyone hoestly think it's a good idea she drive around holding the wheel with her knees (because you won't be ale to "steer" as such in any real way) while trying to operate the indicators and change gears?

Driving a car is no different. It's not that long ago you would be fined for having an arm sticking out the window.
Walk up to a cop and ask him what he would think of you driving along steering with your knees...

Face reality lady, think about other road users, realise it's a bloody miracle you haven't had an accident by now, and buy an automatic.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToCo

Here is a somewhat of a reference from a quick google search...

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/as...11_Part_D1.pdf

"NOTE: One hand or the other MUST have a firm grip of the steering wheel at ALL TIMES when the vehicle is in motion - otherwise your vehicle is not under safe and proper control."
Now I am guessing that you could not pass a test if the car is not under safe and proper control...
Page 77

That is a driving school pamphlet.

It also talks where to put your hands on the wheel and all the other driving school drivel.....

It is a list of things to do to pass a driving test nothing more......

ToCo · 31-05-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

That is a driving school pamphlet.

It also talks where to put your hands on the wheel and all the other driving school drivel.....

It is a list of things to do to pass a driving test nothing more......

You're correct, a pamphlet explaining road rules to pass your test. This lady following THESE rules would not pass. Simple...

Ben73 · 30-05-2011, 01:05 PM

Whats wrong with an Auto?
I think she is just trying to prove that she can still do normal things and still can drive manual.

Good on her for being able to. But just because she can, doesn' t mean she should.

burnz · 30-05-2011, 01:07 PM

i don't think she would be worried about auto v's manuel, it's the $500.00 for the test...a special test WTF..

billy302 · 30-05-2011, 01:09 PM

The woman has lost her right Arm.
You have all raised valid questions.
People who are handicapped can drive an Automatic.
I think you will find she has been driving a manual car in Queensland without the Authorities knowing.
I lot the sight in my left eye after I had got my license.
Although I kept telling them, it took years for the Authorities to put it on my licence that I had impaired vision.

SEZ213 · 30-05-2011, 01:22 PM

My Victorian licence indicated I had to wear glasses, when I moved to Queensland and changed my licence over, this was 'missed' by Queensland Transport.

She's been driving with one arm for ten years...that's dedication, and no accidents...why should she be forced into a manual if she's clearly proven she's capable of doing it?

How many of you put your knee under the steering wheel to open a drink with both hands whilst driving? Same theory applies...just dressed differently...

And I would hazard a guess and suggest that as a result of the disability, she's more aware of hazards around her, and compensates accordingly...she's missing an arm, not both eyes...

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Sort of like "Why endanger others by driving old technology motor vehicles that are not fitted with crumple zones, air bags, ABS or DSC?"
It would be so much safer to get rid of all the pre 2000 Falcons and drive hybrid camrys instead.......

You have a point there but maybe a rule like that for the masses wouldnt be relevant in this case where there is such an easy solution. Buy an automatic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You really are the master of coming up with stupid and pointless comparisons

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

We are all taught to keep two hands on our steering wheel etc etc.

See people with two arms can still keep one hand on the wheel while they change gears, scratch their nose, wipe seat off their fore head, wipe their nose after sneezing etc etc, something a person with one arm can not do.

I think flappist has a point but this single case shows how things slip through the holes in the law and endangers others who are not aware that someone is driving a car with their knees at certain times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sezzy

My Victorian licence indicated I had to wear glasses, when I moved to Queensland and changed my licence over, this was 'missed' by Queensland Transport.

She's been driving with one arm for ten years...that's dedication, and no accidents...why should she be forced into a manual if she's clearly proven she's capable of doing it?

How many of you put your knee under the steering wheel to open a drink with both hands whilst driving? Same theory applies...just dressed differently...

And I would hazard a guess and suggest that as a result of the disability, she's more aware of hazards around her, and compensates accordingly...she's missing an arm, not both eyes...

So thats an excuse to make it more dangerous for me driving beside her?
One arm=automatic
If I passed you closely doing 150kph, I`m pretty sure you wouldnt be happy with my driving even though I would be dedicated and concentrating.