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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: What is the go? | |||
V8SC is dead, I will support the new formats |
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87 | 39.01% |
FORD are nuts, V8SC is king, BMW will steal Ford's market share |
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14 | 6.28% |
Meh, all motor racing is a circus |
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10 | 4.48% |
Stuff Ford, I am defecting to Holden or BMW |
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3 | 1.35% |
What a great idea, real racing in real cars, I hope Holden eventually join in as well |
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104 | 46.64% |
I follow the drivers not the marques, it is all the same to me |
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5 | 2.24% |
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll |
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#61 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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#62 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Agreed. Looking at the line up in there its actually quite good.
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Daniel |
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#63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
I hate to say it but the series is extremely popular as far as motorsport categories go...
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#64 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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IF Ford withdrew would V8SC be dead? |
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#65 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() |
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#66 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Quote:
V8SC keep changing,venues,regs etc it keeps an interest for some and they also push the sponsors. You own a business how hard do you push for customers. For me its become somewhat monotenous all you see is a freight train going round the track as some one else said'bring back the biff' but V8SC have ruled that out,you cant do that anymore. Mind you R.Kelly seems to now and again. Anyway back to the point of the hypothetical..'if Ford pulled out would you..'
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FORD RULES OK The more I know ppl the more I love my DOGS. 2011 SY Territory Limited Edition TS 2000 AUII SE ute IL6 |
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#67 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Your right, for pcca to work it would need alot of people to start watching the category. I guess one would need to ask the people who bag V8SC and say bring back production car racing, do they go and watch it? If enough people moved over then we know where the money would go.
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Daniel |
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#68 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Quote:
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FORD RULES OK The more I know ppl the more I love my DOGS. 2011 SY Territory Limited Edition TS 2000 AUII SE ute IL6 |
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#69 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Daniel |
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#70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
Your hypothetical first: "If" Ford pulled out of V8SC im not sure much would change unless the Ford teams stopped running Falcons.. to be honest with the COF (car of the future) 2 years away it might be playing into TC's hands for the single chassis catagory that he wants with the tribal emphasis on teams and driver rivalry, and the manufacturers fade into the background. "If" FPR left V8SC and invested in drifting, drag racing, and prody racing they might as well throw a massive staff party with the money because the ROI from those minor categories would be abysmal.... Would i like to see prody racing come back? my heart says sure id Love to see it, bring on homologation specials again like the GTHO!!! Do i think it would work? now the brain kicks in... not a hope in hell, Group C and later on Group A were total farces... im not sure why people want a return to a class of racing that allows 1 make to completely dominate year on year till another make out guzumps them to dominate themselves, then everyone fights and squabbles over parity..., the car companies hated it because if forced them to build factory racers, only the rich euro makes could compete on that level, FPV/HSV wouldnt stand a chance. Prody racing already exists, if people think its a good idea go and watch it and support it, but take a good book with you, because you could read a chapter between laps and passes....
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#71 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Quote:
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FORD RULES OK The more I know ppl the more I love my DOGS. 2011 SY Territory Limited Edition TS 2000 AUII SE ute IL6 |
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#72 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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In this hypothetical Ford withdraw completely including the license to use it trademarks and shapes.
In the new production rules there is a limit to the max price of the car AND a minumum number need to be sold IN AUSTRALIA to retail end user customers before the model is eligible. e.g. if the number is 300 then 300 EVO X or BMW 335i or whatever have to be sold and delivered in AUSTRALIA before that model can be raced. This will also prevent another "7 litre monaro" debacle. Of the other hand, if there had not been 300 FG GTs sold before Jan 1 2009 then only the BF2 would be allowed. You can't have one without the other. With regard to the lap times, sprint tracks will not be an issue although Bathurst may. Still, if your attention span is less than ten seconds then there is always WSID.... |
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#73 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Ah good old homolagation,umm will polarisers be allowed??
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#74 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 477
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For my part I too have slowly been losing interest in the series. Increasingly i tape it and fast forward it or like today just bin the recording I'd much rather see a series like the v8 Brutes but sedan based. Surely that would be a better formula for the future cheaper to run, closer racing and we could get rid of sprint tyres, compulsory pitstops, minimum fuel stops etc. Indeed it might be so close to real cars that the big spending euros might leave because they can't realise a technology advantage. A lower cost formula would also allow more cars and sponsors; heck we might even see individual Ford dealers co -sponsoring like in the late 60s/early 70s. Imagine if the current crop of drivers had to nurse cars in enduros like Moffat and Brock had to and if we had fields of 40 plus.
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#75 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
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But the brain tells me FPV/HSV wont build them and Comrade kev would just kill them off.... Quote:
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#76 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
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Posts: 25,793
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![]() But i agree bring back Homologation specials love to see it all though i bet my left it wont happen.
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#77 | ||||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
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The problem is, for the great majority of people who pay to watch, they're not concerned about the reality of these cars, that they're identical except for the badge and shell. What brings them to watch, or what they're interested in, I have no eye deer. Maybe it's the "tribal" thing, Ford v Holden, which is dying by the look of it. Maybe it's just watching big V8s running about all day. It could be the popular drivers. Or it could be, as JW would tell you, that some people love Vodafone, or something poofy like that. I'm sure there are plenty more reasons. For me personally, as soon as one marque or team starts dominating, it becomes boring. Or when "racing" isn't encouraged, it gets boring. I like to see good close racing, and where it's anybody's cc till the end of the year.
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"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
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#78 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Of course that will make the cars be as fast as V8SC's!!!
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Daniel |
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#79 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 891
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I grew up with improved production and it is what gave me the sentimental attachment made me a lifelong Ford devotee as I could (to all intents and purposes) buy the winning race car on Monday after the race. I would MUCH rather support (and do now) a Improved Production class as I can MORE readily identify with the gadgetry regardless as to whether Ford are looking a bit average compared to the AWD/Turbo component. Make a better car...that's why you race isn't it? To improve the breed for the average punter? Not just throw money at an elite category which is now as relevant to me as a billycart is to Formula 1. Just my 2c.
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#80 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Unless the "product" is right it won't get attention, there are hundreds of amateur sports nationally that would kill for TV or corporate sponsorship but will never get it as well because it just isnt as popular.... The early concept of Bathurst in the 60's and early 70's WAS that, a reliability test where Manufacturers could showcase their products and gain reputation for speed and reliability, and DNA could filter off the track into production vehicles, that's what Bathurst used to be about.... The Bathurst 12 hr still exists, but it has only got "enthusiast" interest because there are more exciting classes to watch AKA V8SC... The product already exists, but its upto fans to support it first.....
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#81 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 891
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Bathurst 12 hour is lucky, VERY LUCKY to get 2 hours of highlights at the best of times. True motorsport fans (of the PCCA and other similar) will go, watch and be enthused and will not even notice this ripple in the general scheme of things with regard to the V8SC. You hit the nail on the head with the product already existing but it needs the support of the fans, it's not that PCCA is less exciting than V8 Commodore Cup, it's just that the multimedia juggernaut that wafts along with it [V8SC] tells (the majority) of non-technical, non-Red or Blue which is "the best racing to watch and/or be a part of"...not exactly brainwashing...but... The point I am making is that this evolution category (and that is what it is) tries to keep fans by tugging at the heart strings with war stories of battles past with glorious machinery which are totally irrelevant in respect to current weaponry and deeds ensued. Chalk and cheese. How can a V8 Supercar be relevant to an XR6 Turbo? Flop molded body shell and a badge are not all that impressive to a potential buyer really except by trying to evoke misty eyed rhetoric of days of yore. V8 Supercars has always been marketed as an allegiance sport/category, one or the other ...that's why they got booed on Sunday.
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#82 | |||
Professional Mouse Jockey
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SE Vic
Posts: 3,185
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Quote:
Obviously the interest wasn't there to keep it in the spotlight. Don't get me wrong I would like to see it flourish myself but the fan base just isn't there.
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Isuzu MUX for towing horses - currently no Fords in the stable Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. Groucho Marx
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#83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Don't forget that the reason we've ended up with the current V8SC formula is because of the failures of previous category formulas... As i said i'm not against production class racing at all, and id love to see FPV and HSV build homologation specials again, but unless they govern it like the V8SC series or Utes with parity adjustments its just plain boring...
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() Last edited by 4Vman; 03-08-2009 at 10:26 AM. |
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#84 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
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Parity means you might as well make it an all or one make make race. What's the difference...a badge? British Telecom plastered all over it? That would make me rush out and but one...but...what is it? a Toyota?
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#85 | |||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Exactly, it's working. The V8's are racecars they aren't going to have much in common with a road car. As long as the engine and body are branded, its alright. A shift to production car racing won't mean well have production specials either. They would be watered down, as much as its everyones love to see a racing verison of the GT sold. What level of homologation special are we talking anyway? Something like a GT3RS with rollcage? or a car with some red recaros and a 't'wing, and a GT-RS sticker... If ford pulled out its commitment to the V8's it will be the AU days allover again,,,,
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#86 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Without parity the racing is boring and every one crys "unfair" because 1 make dominates..... Group C and Group A failed miserably for 2 reasons: Ford and Holden didnt want to have to make homologation specials and the racing was boring because 1 make always dominated in a whitewash till the rules reeled them in, which meant the off track politics, squabbling, bitching and fighting was out of control...
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#87 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
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Location: Sydney
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One manufacturer does not want to be shown up by bringing an inferior product to the race track, so instead of actually creating a comparable opponent...they whine like a 4 year old that they have not got the same spoiler, diffuser or whatever and they are taking their bat and ball home in a huff if they can't have the same one. Doesn't resemble competition to me. I thought Group A & C failed because Holden and Ford got sick of being flogged by Nissan and whomever else turned up to compete...so they just shut everyone out and basked in their own glory. I suppose it's (PCAA) boring because Ford are not dominating and getting their butt's handed to them by turbo 4's much to MY DISMAY too as I am a Ford devotee as well. As I should have said: it only reinforces my view as to why I could care less about the current category after this incident as they are just advertising space on wheels and neither component or driver loyalties mean anything to anyone, anymore.
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#88 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 976
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Holden fans have been sick of V8 SC since 1996, suprised it's taken 888 leaving for the Ford guys to wake up to this
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#89 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Guys.....
Remember this is just a hypothetical not real life. I made the whole thing up. It is an event from an alternate universe (flappiverse) designed to stimulate conversation on what might be the result if this did infact actually happen. |
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#90 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: QLD
Posts: 4,446
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Quote:
__________________
FORD RULES OK The more I know ppl the more I love my DOGS. 2011 SY Territory Limited Edition TS 2000 AUII SE ute IL6 |
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