Bloody Councils and their fines

[Ben73]

Hmm Looks like the laneway gets bigger where your car is. But I see from the 2nd photo where the boundry line is.

Rip up all the tar which is inside your property and then they should never misunderstand again.

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Talking about councils being to fine you for (eg noise, rubbish etc etc) has nothing to do with a parking fine. So it's you that's going left of field, not me being unable to comprehend the english language.

It's not left field at all. You don't provide anything further to the conversation when questioned other than to repeat over and over that the 'council cant fine you on private property'. As if private property is some kind of inpenitrible field that the council can't fine on. I am simply trying to make a link that this isn't the case - the council can indeed fine you on your property for a range of things. Parking being one of them.

As I have said over and over, I am willing to except that my position is wrong. But can you point me in direction to find out why? Where are you getting your information from?

As for parking on grass. Mate, another left of field assumption.

Oh ffs. What relevance is this at all? His "yard" can be made of pure gold for all I care. I made a simple reference to a grass covered yard, get over it. The car in question here isn't in a yard - of any type - so it's not relevant.

The council property starts at the footpath. Straight and simple. Anywhere from the footpath, towards a property, is classed as private property. Careless who owns the property. You can park how ever you like on that section of land. be it grass, concrete, bituman or dirt and the council can't do diddly about it.

And again, you make my point for me. There is no footpath in this scenario - so where does the council property start?

The council property starts at this "line" that the OP is arguing about. Which is the property boundary as per the title for the property. The problem we have here is as this line is a continuation of a Road, and the road surface clearly continues on into the OPs property - does that area constitute a "Road" or "Road Related Area" under the NSW Road Rules 2008 and therefore can the Council issue an infringment under Road Rule 208(2) or 208A(1)?

I say there is a damn good chance they can. This area isn't fenced off in any way and it is "open to the public". I say it's a road and I say they can fine him.

Again, as I've admitted over and over. I'm not 100% on this, but it is based on reading the relevant rules and making an informed decision on that. If you can give me something else, other than blind faith in your word, then I'll be happy to conceed you're right.

Relevant links:

Ryde Counci: http://www.ryde.nsw.gov.au/services/...#MOTORVEHICLES
NSW Road Rules: http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/ma...79+2008+cd+0+N

[SB076]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

looking at those pics imo you can understand why the parking warden gave the ticket, it looks just like the rest of the road/laneway.

you cant expect a warden to know where each unmarked boundry is.

I dont agree with that, if you are going to fine/punish someone for being in the wrong then you need to be 100% sure they are in the wrong. If the ranger is not sure (which is understandable, you cant expect them to know every laneway and were boundary properties start and finieh) than they need to find out before issuing any fines.

[Kryton]

Do you pay for the tarmac in your "private property" when the council wants to resurface the road?
No - then its a road way.

[Landau Stable]

So i called the council this morning. Waited on hold for a while and finally got to speak to someone. I calmly explained my situation and that i was not impressed. At that point, the woman on the other end said i should write to the SDRO, andthat it was up to them to overturn it. At this point i blew up and gave her a spray. I told her that it is their job to make sure i am doing the wrong thing in the first place, and pointed out the neighbouring property, as well as the development plan i witnessed, which showed the water line and such. I told them i AM NOT going to wear a fine every single day until the SDRO tells them to bugger off. I said it is not up to me to have to prove it to someone else, when they have all the info available anyway. At this point she changed her tune and said they would look deeper into the boundary line and would call me back. So anyway, i go to work, and within a couple hours the ranger comes by. She says sorry about fining you. I have just been told of a boundary issue, and will take photos of all the buildings. I would have to assume that she got a serve for not checking back with head office before issuing the fine, since she seemed sweet as pie, and very apologetic. So at this point in time, they are still looking into just how far my boundary goes, so that i can mark out a CLEAR line in the future. I know it is there, but i don't know if it is 2.5 metre, 3 metres, or somewhere in between. I will definitely keep you guys informed of any new developments.

[Matty4]

Well done...
If everyone took the time to actually escalate a complaint when they know they are in the right then this type of rubbish will quickly disappear. This applies to all forms of "revenue raising" too..

[gcg2503]

Lets hope for a good result Michael

I dont want my Landau getting fined if it is ever outside

Not that you would ever do that to a Landau!

They deserve to be undercover at all times when not being driven

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

It's not left field at all. You don't provide anything further to the conversation when questioned other than to repeat over and over that the 'council cant fine you on private property'. As if private property is some kind of inpenitrible field that the council can't fine on. I am simply trying to make a link that this isn't the case - the council can indeed fine you on your property for a range of things. Parking being one of them.








]

If this was the case, where the council can fine you for the way you park on your property, I'd have a glove box full of fines and filing for bankruptsy.

I'm not going to go through the ins and outs of what the council can and can't fine you for, in relation to your car. The only comments I have been making is the relevant one, where the council can't fine you for parking your car, the wrong way round, on your property. That seems to be backed up by the OP's comments.

The rest of what you've put is a load of dribble, that has no relevance to the OP's query. It's that simple

[bigsta]

mate they have no right to come on to private property and have no authority to issue a fne for driving offenses only parking ones.

I would start by calling the concil and getting them to can it if no dice than take it to court

[snap]

Originally Posted by bigsta

mate they have no right to come on to private property and have no authority to issue a fne for driving offenses only parking ones.

I would start by calling the concil and getting them to can it if no dice than take it to court

Local councils have no authority to fine nobody! Read the Constitution ?

[sanchoXB]

Originally Posted by tonyd89

Damn that sucks. I park facing the wrong direction all the time. Too many asians on my street and when they have gatherings they pack about 100 cars into a 30m long road. Have no choice BUT to park facing the wrong way ...

Speaking of parking the wrong way, one day last year my father pulled up in his street facing the wrong way, I was in the car as well. Just as we were pulling up a police car drove past spun around and came back to chip Dad about parking the wrong way, that was fair enough as he had parked the wrong way, the problem was that the police had parked the wrong way as well!

And again a few weeks ago I was on a job site where 2 police officers live, they moved one car onto the street and left in a second car. The car they moved was left on the street facing the wrong way for half the day! The saying lead by example comes to mind.

[xxx000]

it's a bit rich to say or expect anyone from council to know where every single property boundary is regardless. They are doing their job in good faith and not getting paid much to do it either

as several have stated already your pics don't make it at all clear, possibly other pics may but not the ones you've posted plus there's that hand painted sign that 'suggests' people may be parking illegally blocking a driveway or access

now is your chance to clear it up once and for all by simple negotiation and communication with council

I do hope you aren't serious re getting the ranger to lose his/her job over what appears to be a simple but pretty understandable mistake

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by sanchoXB

Speaking of parking the wrong way, one day last year my father pulled up in his street facing the wrong way, I was in the car as well. Just as we were pulling up a police car drove past spun around and came back to chip Dad about parking the wrong way, that was fair enough as he had parked the wrong way, the problem was that the police had parked the wrong way as well!

police don't have to search and find a legal spot to park before they book you

they are exempt whilst carrying out enforcement such as you describe

[mrbaxr6t]

I have no front fence on my residential property does that mean if I spin the car around against the flow of traffic on my front lawn I am breaking the law? (I do this quite often btw) on my front lawn? (not the nature strip) if the car itself is unsightly or abandoned then I can see them getting shirty, but a registered roadworthy maintained vehicle? parked on private property? tell them to stick it up their jumpers...

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I have no front fence on my residential property does that mean if I spin the car around against the flow of traffic on my front lawn I am breaking the law? (I do this quite often btw) on my front lawn? (not the nature strip) if the car itself is unsightly or abandoned then I can see them getting shirty, but a registered roadworthy maintained vehicle? parked on private property? tell them to stick it up their jumpers...

difference being your front yard probably doesnt look just like the road next to it, dont forget, theres no markings, no footpath, nothing to show where public and private property begins and ends.
if there was then the op would have put up a clear pic showing it by now.

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by aus880

it's a bit rich to say or expect anyone from council to know where every single property boundary is regardless. They are doing their job in good faith and not getting paid much to do it either

as several have stated already your pics don't make it at all clear, possibly other pics may but not the ones you've posted plus there's that hand painted sign that 'suggests' people may be parking illegally blocking a driveway or access

now is your chance to clear it up once and for all by simple negotiation and communication with council

I do hope you aren't serious re getting the ranger to lose his/her job over what appears to be a simple but pretty understandable mistake

Not having a go at this particular post, but more the theme of it.
Why is it that the people believe the Ranger does not have to know the facts before issuing a fine and wasting the ratepayers time and effort? If they are going to enforce this type of thing(fines etc)then they SHOULD know right from wrong shouldn't they? The ranger has assumed that the OP was in the wrong, and made an error, one of many no doubt.
Many say it is petty and over the top to want the person removed from his/her duties, but why not? they have stuffed up and I bet they do it everyday and it is only people with the courage of their own convictions like the OP that complain and have to spend time and frustration to prove they are abiding.
Good on you OP for standing up.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by FTE72

Not having a go at this particular post, but more the theme of it.
Why is it that the people believe the Ranger does not have to know the facts before issuing a fine and wasting the ratepayers time and effort? If they are going to enforce this type of thing(fines etc)then they SHOULD know right from wrong shouldn't they? The ranger has assumed that the OP was in the wrong, and made an error, one of many no doubt.
Many say it is petty and over the top to want the person removed from his/her duties, but why not? they have stuffed up and I bet they do it everyday and it is only people with the courage of their own convictions like the OP that complain and have to spend time and frustration to prove they are abiding.
Good on you OP for standing up.

Not to be petty, but you've just assumed that they've made many mistakes. Further to that, what do you gain out of making someone lose their job? What possible satisfaction can you get? If they have made an honest mistake (and to be honest, it's one that many can make and probably do given the fuzzy line around where the boundaries are)...if everyone got the boot when they made a mistake...there wouldn't be anyone employed. And that...is fact.

The expectation that a ranger will know absolutely every boundary line in that municipality, is a little asinine.

End of the day, the ranger has apologised. If the ticket is cancelled because the boundary is where you say it is, you've had a victory - if not, and the boundary is where they say it is...will the OP have the courage to apologise because they're wrong?

[Landau Stable]

Hello all. Just another update. I got a call from the council this afternoon. They have confirmed that i do indeed have a bounary line away from the shop, and it is in fact 4 metres. More than enough room to park anything i want there. The lady was getting a little wise by claiming it looked like my car could have been further out based on the photo the ranger took. At which point i explained that i have a security camera on my wall which captured the lot, so it would be easy to use that as a reference point for measurement and prove otherwise. At that, she kept quiet and spoke about the point at hand, which was to get it overturned. I have to write them an email in response to one she sent me, and then they will do their review and it will all be done. I will also request that their reply comes with a letterhead from them acknowledging my boundary line, to ensure that this does not happen again.

[svo supporter]

Hip hip hurray. One up for the OP. Well done for having the fine on the verge of being binned permanently.

On the subject of cars in the yard. The by-laws in the Salisbury Council and Playford council of S.A state you are allowed to have cars on your property, providing they're rollable.

I know, as I have a few cars on my property (residential) and the council have seen them and said they're rollers, so there's zippo we can do. IMA, 2 are cars I am wrecking, 1 not running and one in the process of being restored. Then I can add in the regoed ones, but that'd be pointless.

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Not to be petty, but you've just assumed that they've made many mistakes. Further to that, what do you gain out of making someone lose their job? What possible satisfaction can you get? If they have made an honest mistake (and to be honest, it's one that many can make and probably do given the fuzzy line around where the boundaries are)...if everyone got the boot when they made a mistake...there wouldn't be anyone employed. And that...is fact.

The expectation that a ranger will know absolutely every boundary line in that municipality, is a little asinine.

End of the day, the ranger has apologised. If the ticket is cancelled because the boundary is where you say it is, you've had a victory - if not, and the boundary is where they say it is...will the OP have the courage to apologise because they're wrong?

I did not say the person should lose their job at all.
A mistake like this shows a habit of not checking. You believe it would be a one off and call me foolish?The Ranger apologised after the OP lodged a complaint. The ranger is the reason for the problem.
Again, if they are going to enforce, it is not foolish to assume they know these boundaries. I expect people I employ to do their job correctly, as does my employer, but of course in private business individuals are accountable, in your world, and the council's they seem to be exempt.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by FTE72

Again, if they are going to enforce, it is not foolish to assume they know these boundaries. I expect people I employ to do their job correctly, as does my employer, but of course in private business individuals are accountable, in your world, and the council's they seem to be exempt.

How many properties would you expect to extend onto tarred roadway? I don't believe the fine is unreasonable given that the property line is not physically marked with any sort of boundary and that the car is parked into oncoming traffic on a tarred roadway.

The error was pointed out, the ranger is now aware of the invisible boundary and that mistake by that ranger won't be made again. If it were my property, I'd park the car facing the other direction from now on to avoid the same thing happening again.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by FTE72

I did not say the person should lose their job at all.
A mistake like this shows a habit of not checking. You believe it would be a one off and call me foolish?The Ranger apologised after the OP lodged a complaint. The ranger is the reason for the problem.
Again, if they are going to enforce, it is not foolish to assume they know these boundaries. I expect people I employ to do their job correctly, as does my employer, but of course in private business individuals are accountable, in your world, and the council's they seem to be exempt.

I didn't say that...but you actually did...unless of course you meant something else.

Originally Posted by FTE72

Many say it is petty and over the top to want the person removed from his/her duties, but why not?

I would suggest the ranger isn't the problem...the boundary is, one that now seems to be fixed, and therefore there seems no reason to rehash it all over again.

Congratulations OP on getting the result you wanted, at least now the boundary can be correctly marked out and no further confusion.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by InfernoSR

go for blood!

This.

[MattSAU2XR8]

Bloke I used to know (customer at work) had this feral old HQ Holden and was always getting parking fines. He reckoned it was too much trouble to fight them so he used to get the council back by running over trees :-) He'd just find a nature strip where some new trees had been planted and mow 'em down with the Kingswood and call it even. Not that I'm endorsing what he did, but it does still make me smile when I remember it.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by MattSAU2XR8

Bloke I used to know (customer at work) had this feral old HQ Holden and was always getting parking fines. He reckoned it was too much trouble to fight them so he used to get the council back by running over trees :-) He'd just find a nature strip where some new trees had been planted and mow 'em down with the Kingswood and call it even. Not that I'm endorsing what he did, but it does still make me smile when I remember it.

Cost to council = 00000. Cost to rate payers = $$$$$
What a goose.....

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by MattSAU2XR8

Bloke I used to know (customer at work) had this feral old HQ Holden and was always getting parking fines. He reckoned it was too much trouble to fight them so he used to get the council back by running over trees :-) He'd just find a nature strip where some new trees had been planted and mow 'em down with the Kingswood and call it even. Not that I'm endorsing what he did, but it does still make me smile when I remember it.

I'm sure the rate payers of that area appreciated his anarchy.

Maybe he should have taken more care about where he parked and it could have been avoided.

[Jim Goose]

Way to go... making rate payers pay for his stupidiy!
There are people out there with some fine morals, this isnt one of them.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Way to go... making rate payers pay for his stupidiy!
There are people out there with some fine morals, this isnt one of them.

Well who was it who elected the council anyway......

[Jim Goose]

Vandalism costs the ratepayer, irrespective of who voted (the twits) in.
Its bad enough they (council) waste peoples money, let alone having a member of the public wasting even more.

[RAREV8]

Great win Michael- my issue with these council enforcements is that fines should be issued where something illegal has taken place that may impact the safety of the public, or that impacts the passage of other road users but certainly around Sydney, many fines are handed out simply to raise revenue.
If you choose to park illegally, you run the risk of a fine and fair enough. I do not agree with parking in one direction on a street- treat drivers like children and guess what? they act like it too.
Hope fully the council will not do something to clarify where your land ends and the carriage way begins.