Are high rise vehicles safe in built up areas?

[Falcon Coupe]

This thread is discriminatory and reeks of envy.

[chevypower]

If you cant drive a 4X4 safely anywhere, then you shouldnt be allowed to drive anything!

[mik]

as a long distance driver in my book there are more dangerouse penis heads out there in cars than scrubbers, however it would be nice if people towing trailers, cars and 4wd vehicles had some actual training in this area , and one thing in particular should be more emphasis on is overtaking skills(if in doubt dont), my only gripe with 4wd vehicles is the shape and protrusion of some bullbars, some are fine others are sort of wedge shaped and stick out way too far and are not safe

[awsome4.0]

Stop worrying about 4X4s cause the bird flu will get us all

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

This thread is discriminatory and reeks of envy.

Nah, I'm not envious of a Landcruiser and I can't see any discrimination here.

Guy's, don't take peoples opinions so seriously.

We're in the pub aren't we?

When I go to the Pub with my mates we talk about stuff we see and have some fun disagreeing on some topics & agreeing with others, when we're finished we don't leave calling each other names.

If you don't agree with someone give your side of the story, don't try and shut everything down just because it's not to your liking.

If there is any discrimination it's coming from the people that give nothing to the thread except name calling.

[stockel]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Nah, I'm not envious of a Landcruiser and I can't see any discrimination here.

Guy's, don't take peoples opinions so seriously.

We're in the pub aren't we?

When I go to the Pub with my mates we talk about stuff we see and have some fun disagreeing on some topics & agreeing with others, when we're finished we don't leave calling each other names.

If you don't agree with someone give your side of the story, don't try and shut everything down just because it's not to your liking.

If there is any discrimination it's coming from the people that give nothing to the thread except name calling.

Couldn't have said it better!
I guess one possible contributing factor to the atmosphere is that this pub is low on women and grog!!! :hihi:

[Falcon Coupe]

Jonydep i gave my opinion just as everyone else did, i chose not to single anyone out any of the rediculous comments as they have right of reply, as do i whether you agree with it or not.

[K_Man]

I'm also of the opinion that 4x4 drivers should have their own licence. Perhaps something like a 'Light Recreational' licence. Make it cost something like an extra $50 or $100, and have extra testing on it, and a more critical practical exam (current Victorian practical exams are pretty pathetic in any case). $50 - $100 is a small premium to pay to drive a 4x4, and if truck drivers need a special licence, then 4x4 owners should too. For proper 4x4 enthusiasts, extra testing wouldn't be a problem, but it would weed out some of the absolute dropkicks that do drive them around the suburbs.

In any case, i'm just thinking out loud, but something like that would surely be somewhat feasable?

[eb91xr6]

its the soccer mothers in the stock 4wd, the modded oned are driven by people who know how to drive them, or there just tools. but i think they should have to get a special licence to drive them, stops mothers gettting them and maby they can get a SW insted

[EL-XRAN]

Nothing wrong with having a jacked up 4x4. Their passion is getting out in the bush, getting dirty and doing some exteme 4-wheel driving. Other peoples passion is having a nice low car that looks sweet, goes hard and has a killer sound stage in it. They have just as much right to have a jacked up car as what anyone else on this forum has to lower theirs. Admittedly, yeah...getting slammed by one of those would be deadly...but if you got slammed by anything doing 80clicks it would still be deadly. It's like trying to outlaw the 5-posters in the city. They have every right to want to protect their car from stock and wildlife straying onto roads. Everyone has their reason for having them. However if it's just being driven in the city and doesnt see any off-road action then the guy driving it is more than likely compensating for something anyway...

[pb02]

Originally Posted by XLS99 Ute man

You need a hobby. Like seriously there a so many things that a potentially dangerous, lets all just stay indoors and not leave the house at all

Why is it that everyone is trying to idiot proof the world???
I'm with you mate, we should just all wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and eliminate every sharp object in the world. :

[merlin]

I don't think they should be banned...as much as I hate them, its still a free country last time i checked.

But I do think you should need a special license for a large 4WD and they should also be taxed higher due to their weight and space they take up on the road - trucks do, these things arn't far off.

But in the end its all personal choice, if you want to drive a vehicle that large in the city, which is hard to park, uses a e load of fuel, has the driving dynamics of a boat and 90% of the population think you have a small d$%k then go for it, no ones going to stop you... :

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Big 4WDs like that are just ugly pigs that should be taxed out of existence.

Amen.

Had a mate who was T boned by one of these troglodite morons who went through a red light.
There was a reason I said HAD a mate, as he is no longer with us thanks to some foll with an inferiority complex and a 2 inch pecker - requiring such an oversized vehicle.

Problems are not just with the size of the vehicle, but the insular effect it offers the drivers which unfortunately turn to arrogance and plain stupidity. As the roads get busier this is the last thing we need, and the fact that in a side impact these vehicles are basically crushing one of the weakest points on a cars' chassis means that they do tremendous damage to the safety cell, alarmingly seriously injuring or killing occupants of any vehicle not of similar dimensions.

[ltd]

Oh, and the territory is designed to sit so low. Whilst the motoring journos bagged it for lack of ground clearance I applauded it for its car like characteristics in a collision. Well done Ford, for thinking beyond the owners of these vehicles.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by pb02

Why is it that everyone is trying to idiot proof the world???
I'm with you mate, we should just all wrap ourselves in bubble wrap and eliminate every sharp object in the world. :

Interesting how Boeing got sued successfully for some twat putting tape over the static vents and not removing it, causing aero peru to crash and kill 71 people. The liability issue was that Boeing allegedly should have foreseen such an oversight and were contributory to the mistake.

Imagine if those principals were applied to vehicle design. I think most car makers would be bankrupt by now, especially Toyota.
All it will take is some litigous nut after a big payout to make it possible.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Abacus

I agree with the sentiments expressed regarding raised 4WDs, to the effect that: they are pigs in the city, potentially unsafe in the wrong hands, and not used for appropriate purpose by the majority of owners, who probably wouldn't slip them into 4WD during their complete period of ownership of the truck.

BUT you need to be careful when you call for any vehicles to be banned, on the basis that nobody really “needs” such a vehicle. If the government ever introduced laws limiting such vehicles, this could be the thin end of a very nasty wedge. Environmentalists could claim who “needs” those nasty fuel guzzling V8s – Ban Them!!. The Harold Scrubys of this world would scream who “needs” turbocharged engines , or anything with more performance than a Holden Barina – Ban Them!!.

I find any large 4WD a pain the backside in the city. They take up too much room on the road, you can’t see through them, and there is no doubt that many, if not most, of their drivers would probably have a real problem in a crisis situation. At the end of the day, however, you have to consider whether going down the road of government intervention might end up at a very unpleasant destination.

I think the point being raised is that currently these vehicles do not have the same taxes placed on them, and as such have become an incentive for people to buy them over any other normal car.

Additionally, they are classified as a commercial vehicle and as such do not attract any Fringe Benefits Tax, and again only serves to entice people to buy them over a normal car.

[tex]

Not sue myself about the "special licence" requirement for 4 x 4 owners.

If this was to be the case, why would'nt it also be reasonable to have all hi po vehicles (definition of which would be quite hard to define) only to be driven by people with a special 'hi po' endorsed licence.

I'm not aginst this as a concept, but realistically, how would this be inforced adequately and do we think this would solve the threat of death by either type of vehicle... probably not. But I guess it may weed out a few potential owners that can't be bothered endorsing their ticket.

On the other hand, why not bring ALL driver training up to a standard that adequately equipped all drivers to safely steer any light vehicle.. 4 x4, hi po or the family sedan ?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by mustang

wat if the house collapses : or if the house catches on fire and ur too affraid to go outside cause of a big bad 4x4 :

like the sayin goes for most demo derby drivers...."you could get hurt getting out of bed in the morning" :nutsycuck

Ridiculous.

What say then to all those that think they're ok but need to be in the right hands that we try a little experiment.

Let's put a loaded gun in your home and have a stranger come over and mind it for you. Afterall, in the right hands it wouldn't be as deadly now would it?

You can't implicitly trust the abilities of people you don't know, and re my earlier post about tax breaks for such vehicles, many an unskilled person are buying these types of cars to avoid paying more than necessary to the government through taxation.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by ltd

You can't implicitly trust the abilities of people you don't know, and re my earlier post about tax breaks for such vehicles, many an unskilled person are buying these types of cars to avoid paying more than necessary to the government through taxation.

I don't think it has anything to do with buying these vehicles to avoid paying more tax!

Are you also implying that unskilled people only buy 4x4's???? How about the unskilled people behind the wheel of high performance cars, buses, trucks, hell almost every taxi!!!

[Mechan1k]

For something interesting to look at (as pointed out by "Raptor")
www.murcotts.com.au

All sorts of driving courses ... large vehicles ... off-road ... and towing/load carrying as well.

I think it's worth everyone's while to enquire/attend.

Maybe an AFF day in every state for all interested parties.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

I think it's worth everyone's while to enquire/attend.

I agree totally. The licensing system is far too easy. I think that advanced driving courses should be a mandatory part of obtaining a license.
I'm not saying I'm a good driver but I've done a fair share of driving and riding courses including several track days on cars and bikes and it has made a huge difference to how I drive on the roads. The problem as I see it is lack of education and understanding. Licensing and testing needs to be revised for all forms of road transport!

[SB076]

I don't have a problem with 4x4's like that (provided they meet all applicable safety standards as does every other vehicle) Different people have different tastes/requirements and if people like or need 4x4's they should be able to drive them, just as any other vehicle. If we ban 4x4's what next? Should we ban Falcons and Commodores due to there size and power? Of course not. All vehicles can be considered unsafe because all vehicles have the ability to travel at 50Km/h and that is enough to kill someone. It all comes down to the people involved. I am all for reducing the road toll, however I don't think we should be blaming one particular type of vehicle

[chevypower]

gee, what extra testing is there on a four wheel drive? How to select reverse is different on a 4x4 to a 4x2? They drive exactly the same, or are we going to pay $100 extra so we can be reminded that our vehicles are generally heavier? What a bargain!! Great idea! The road rules are the same for everybody in any car, they are not any more difficult to drive- so the licenses should be... THE SAME! Are we going to have trailer towing licenses too?

[Mechan1k]

Maybe not licencing for towing ... but some sort of training for drivers is NEEDED ... because no one gets taught going through Ls and Ps.

I saw a case the other day at the Waste Management facility ... a guy with an X-trail and a tiny box trailer ... do you think he could reverse it on a 45 degree angle the 6 metres he need .... noooooooo ... it took him 20 minutes to do it. I nearly told the guy to get out of his vehicle and I'd reverse it for him.

I nearly reversed the damn thing into my Territory ... it was so frustrating to watch.

OK ... this is kinda going off-topic ... but all-in-all ... I think everyone should undergo extra training in all aspects of driving ... EVEN towing as well.

[jspec_sti]

Originally Posted by chevypower

gee, what extra testing is there on a four wheel drive? How to select reverse is different on a 4x4 to a 4x2? They drive exactly the same, or are we going to pay $100 extra so we can be reminded that our vehicles are generally heavier? What a bargain!! Great idea! The road rules are the same for everybody in any car, they are not any more difficult to drive- so the licenses should be... THE SAME! Are we going to have trailer towing licenses too?

Agree, driving an Explorer is not much different to driving the Falcon - you are just sitting higher up. This thread is just as ridiculous as branding all drivers from a certain manufacturer as "hoons".

[pb02]

Originally Posted by chevypower

gee, what extra testing is there on a four wheel drive? How to select reverse is different on a 4x4 to a 4x2? They drive exactly the same, or are we going to pay $100 extra so we can be reminded that our vehicles are generally heavier? What a bargain!! Great idea! The road rules are the same for everybody in any car, they are not any more difficult to drive- so the licenses should be... THE SAME! Are we going to have trailer towing licenses too?

I'm not suggesting extra testing for 4x4 owners, it's for EVERYONE in general. I don't believe the problem is with 4x4's but with peoples driving skills in general.

[gozza]

Originally Posted by bladexr8

The first point mate, no other cars exist on the road when she's in her Explorer!

lol well i will keep an eye out
thats the thing tho its not the REAL 4wd drives the bug me.....its the pretencious land rovers and land cruisers that have no purpose being driven on the highway

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by chevypower

gee, what extra testing is there on a four wheel drive? How to select reverse is different on a 4x4 to a 4x2? They drive exactly the same, or are we going to pay $100 extra so we can be reminded that our vehicles are generally heavier? What a bargain!! Great idea! The road rules are the same for everybody in any car, they are not any more difficult to drive- so the licenses should be... THE SAME! Are we going to have trailer towing licenses too?

I hope you're not serious. 4x4's drive alot differently than the standard sedan. There is a skill, this skill is laking from most 4x4 drivers.

Originally Posted by gozza

thats the thing tho its not the REAL 4wd drives the bug me.....its the pretencious land rovers and land cruisers that have no purpose being driven on the highway

The 4x4 you buy when you don't go 4x4ing! It's funny/stupid when you see the big alluminuim bullbar and LPG tank under the back. You know the only 'off road' it does is onto the nature strip!!

[jspec_sti]

Originally Posted by gozza

lol well i will keep an eye out
thats the thing tho its not the REAL 4wd drives the bug me.....its the pretencious land rovers and land cruisers that have no purpose being driven on the highway

That I agree with! :

On another note, I notice that the person who started this thread has yet to offer any tangible evidence to answer their own question, and when challenged on this fact hides behind the "I wanted to start a discussion..." excuse. Before starting threads that are designed to turn into a witch hunt of a certain segment of society (deny this as much as you like but some of your earlier "Holden" based threads just confirm this fact), it may be prudent to conduct some research and back up your rhetoric with some actual facts, rather than just re-hashing Harold Scruby-like statements.

Yes, I won a 4WD. Why? Because I want to. Yes, I drive it around suburbia and the country as I see fit.

And, no, I don't need to be told what type of car I can own and where I can drive it.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by gozza

lol well i will keep an eye out
thats the thing tho its not the REAL 4wd drives the bug me.....its the pretencious land rovers and land cruisers that have no purpose being driven on the highway

But what other type of vehicle can offer the same amount of practicality though?
In your ideal world there would be a car for towing, off road, the kids/dog, sunday drive etc, but ya see, most people don't have pockets that deep. You might say MPVs, but a Chrysler Voyager will take up just as much space, gas, and is no easier to see around, yet can't tow as good as a 4wd or go off road. Probably has less interior space too, the new Discos and Volvos have pretty clever interiors that I have seen.
You say 'X' 4wd has no place being on the highway/suburbs. Fact is nearly every 4wd on the market these days will struggle with anything more than a sandy beach. Most are doing what they are mainly designed to do, drive on ROADS.

My BMW 5 series weighs 1.6t dry. With a tank of gas, and 4 people in, will be over 2 tonne (a trip to the tip with a trailer on the back was showing nearly 2.5t). Should I need a special licence to drive that too?