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#1 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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Quote:
I don't know why we're subsidising this, if you go the Red Premium tickets its about $170 - you can fly between Melbourne and Adelaide for around the same price with QANTAS, and get there in just over an hour or so. This leads into a discussion on people with their fetish for 'fast rail' services between capital cities - we've already got good airport infrastructure and services between the capital cities, with the cost of the infrastructure for fast rail, you'd end up paying twice as much as a flight and take more than twice as long to get to your destination. I'm of the opinion we let the Overland rail service die its long overdue death. |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 1,717
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A fast rail line if done properly would cut the time between Melbourne and Sydney to below 3 hours. (Now I know infrastructure is not something this country does properly but bare with me) I reckon once you factor the trip to the airport, security screening, the flight and then mucking around at the destination airport and having to travel from there to the city would make up a good chunk of 3 hours on its own.
With fast rail, you go to the train station, get on and (as long as VLine isn’t running it) most likely leave on time, you’re not cramped like a sardine, and you simply leave the station in the city centre at the other end. The Overland is dying because it’s an old heap of crap train that hasn’t kept up with the times. |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,045
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#4 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
For me, at $105- $120 one way, full fare Wang to Sydney I think I'm paying enough thanks, given the train rarely runs on time. Also I think you jokers forget that not everyone lives in a capital city and train travel is vital for country people who do not own cars. Franco, try pricing a plane fare from Sydney to Albury then add the cost of trying to get to a place like say Wang from there. The train is the most direct route. Public train travel was always meant as a service it was never meant to be a money making private venture. My only beef with the way country trains (apart from the speed) are run are that most like Countrylink services (NSW train link now) are 3/4 booked up with 1/2 fare paying passengers or first class booked pensioner tickets leaving full fare paying passengers with little seating capacity left.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#5 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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Quote:
![]() Imagine how much 'fast rail' would cost per ticket with the billions it would cost for the infrastructure between say Melbourne - Canberra - Sydney - Brisbane This clip is interesting with the trains vs planes argument, it takes into account some of the costs, is based on US figures and political circumstances though obviously, it also confirms rokWiz's thoughts on the regional communities. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 07-12-2019 at 02:12 PM. |
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#6 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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I can remember ARTC "fixing" the main Sydney to Melbourne line back in 2007......2009......2012......2016.......2018 one c*ck up after the next and now the fools want to double deck freight on our NE line to Illabo (Junee) what could possibly go wrong.
High speed rail !, not in my lifetime.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#7 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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This one is about the 'hovertrain' concept that never eventuated - do we have any resident oldies who were around when these were front page news?
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#8 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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Quote:
![]() State Government circa 1990s sold our soul to Transurban instead of borrowing the $4B to do the Tullamarine and Monash Freeway upgrades, we have to compensate Transurban big spondoolies if we build rail infrastructure to Melbourne Airport. We even needed their permission to do the Melbourne Metro Upgrade because the tunnel runs under part of the Tullamarine Freeway. I'd say we won't get Melbourne Airport rail link until 2045 at the earliest - as thats when the contract between our Government and Transurban expires, assuming they don't extend it again. This thread is now our rail discussion thread. Also Japan's Shinkansen: Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 07-12-2019 at 02:23 PM. |
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#9 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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We could learn a lot from Japans rail network but Australia does have its own problems ie maintenance, summer heat, tracks buckle, speed restriction apply slowing down the services.
The first video doesn't give much reference to what planes actually cost to maintain. Also most of UK rail network was privatised years ago and is not public owned.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#10 | ||
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,892
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#11 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
I think they have it wrong, I reckon the inland freight route should have gone up the (changed to standard gauge) Shepparton line, straight up over the Murray, I have a sneaking suspicion they didn't want to reposition all of the change over train drivers who just happen to be based in Junee. I watch freight trains pass here (Chiltern) daily and really can not see why they are bothering with double decking as it seems not that many trains go by. Usually the Onesteel train from Port Kembla to Hastings on a daily basis and back, a few general freight, with the occasional grain trains. Maybe 5 freight trains south and 5 north plus XPTs 2 down 2 up, plus the Albury-melb Vline 3 down 3 up. Maybe this is something to appease the green lobby movement into thinking more freight will go by rail than road. Wouldn't it be great to run an XPT Melb to Bris via that inland route, even if it was just once a week.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,617
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Quote:
If I had the need to go to Adelaide, I'd happy take the train and use the time to do paperwork/design stuff. A trip to airport involves multiple other on-offs of transport from Geetroit via Melbourne: car to Gull Bus, Gull Bus to airport, luggage and screening bzzzt, getting there early, waiting around, boarding, up&away, land, get luggage, get next bit of transport, phew. I'm exhausted. Train: no need to go into Melb, apparently it stops at North Shore, just get a lift from fam, on train, chill and relax, look out the window and see cows in much better resolution than from a plane, Radelaide. 60kg of luggage. https://railmaps.com.au/routedetails.php?RouteSelect=32 Very easy for regional people.
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#13 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,645
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Whilst im not surprised to see it go as air travel is faster and often cheaper, its sad really as its a good little trip.
8 of us took a cruise from Adelaide to Melbourne via Burnie last year, stayed the night in Melbourne and caught the Overland back the next morning, was a cool trip and the kids loved the experience of cruising and then cross country train travel. The time literally flew by as we passed the ever changing landscape. I remember riding the Indian Pacific to Sydney back in the mid 90's when you could go one way for about $160, now its 5x that off season, ridiculous. Was a great experience though, passing through the blue mountains. Nearly got kicked off at Bathurst on one trip as a bloke I got talking to in the old smokers carriage was drinking scotch from a 2l coke bottle and got busted, but when I told them id be happy to so long as they took my car off too as its quicker to drive from there than stay on the train, they backed down. |
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#14 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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#15 | ||
AU3 ute EL futura
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 485
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I used to work for queensland rail. The country services lose a massive amount of money every year. The only people who use them are seniors who's fairs are massively reduced.
Your money would be better spent further subsidising regional airlines. I made the mistake of travelling brisbane to sydney once by train. 14 hours of pure hell. I'd rather do it by pushbike. Trains make sense for freight and city commuter travel because the cost of the roads to replace them is massive, but country trains are a political convenience. Certain people would kick up too much of a fuss if they were shut down. They will die eventually though. |
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#16 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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Talking about rail - I've noticed they're refurbishing the Z and B class trams on our tram network, you see a lot of the old bangers servicing the Western lines, ie 57 and 59 trams are always the old crappy 1970s/1980s Z and B class specials where the Southern/SE and some inner Northern lines are rocking new E Class.
They've got the updated liveries, refurbished interior and I noticed the old sealed beams are now LED sealed beams with new LCD display panels on the exterior showing the line information. |
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#17 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
*Petrol / diesel doubles in price * Our population doubles (or triples) * Rego / insurance / road taxes on a car goes up (a lot) making car ownership the exception not the norm. In other countries high speed rail works due to the above. Most western countries owning a car to get around - even on the weekends is the way it's done. Look at countries with high speed rail and it's the exact opposite. It also doesn't help that there is little population between many of our capitals that would make the line economically viable. With the overland route in question, I wonder if it can be utalised for container movement at night to keep the cash flow going? I don't mind long distance train travel (either slow or fast) however it's often far cheaper to drive if time permits.
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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#18 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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Looking at the site for the Overland you can't book anything past the last few scheduled trips this month.
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#19 | ||
Lyminge, Shepway, Kent
![]() ![]() Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Geelong - Go Cats
Posts: 3,197
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I may just take the Overland.
Unexpected spare time now.
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Mel Brooks sums it up best; "Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die, tragedy is when I get a paper cut" |
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#20 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
I can just see a plane stopping at every town along a route to the big smoke, it would take longer than any train. And just like a train all the smokers would want to get of at every stop to have a quicky. I've often wondered myself when I've been on the train, why anyone would use it to travel from capital to capital. I would definitely fly given the option. Used the XPT from Sydney to Coffs a few times as the airline charge from Sydney to Coffs was $380 to fly !
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
Last edited by roKWiz; 09-12-2019 at 08:25 AM. |
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#21 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,824
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The idea that every public facility (asset) should be self-sufficient financially within itself, is a slippery slope. I’d argue there is a public asset “ecosystem” that takes in many things from parks and beaches, to iconic transport and famous structures, healthcare and justice, cultural traditions, history new and old. We should look to fund that as a whole, not to split the bill.
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#22 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Yep, that harbour in Sydney is just one big money pit, they could fill it in, build more highrise and make lots more money.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#23 | ||
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,892
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#24 | |||
AU3 ute EL futura
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 485
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Quote:
The problem with the other arguments is that relatively few people use or care about regional rail, it's just that the few that do are really vocal. When coke changed the formula much of the protests came from people who didn't even drink it. They just felt good knowing it was available and unchanged. Or another example inner city greenies simultaneously live as far away from the "nature" they claim to love while being the most outraged by the people who do live with it every day. If the rail funding was redirected to air you could have one flight a day doing every 1/2 hour stop and another servicing the towns in between. That would cover enough towns to make it accessible while providing an economic quick convenient service. And the smokers can just put up with it. What next ? injecting rooms ? "conjugal" rooms ? I want a vegan strangling room.... |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
That's an average not a top speed so forget about stopping in Albury-Wodonga
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#26 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
Country people do care about working passenger services (maybe not up your way but they do here) Given the amount of people who board and depart from stations like Wagga and Cootamundra (in both directions) both being major transport hubs out to other places. A train can move thousands of punters in one hit with more efficiency than any small regional plane. Have you priced the cost of air tickets to regional towns from the capitals ? They don't give discounts like capital to capital tickets.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#27 | ||
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,892
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Very fast Passenger trains are nothing but a Political "****fest" that get recycled every election Year...
They'd be better off Replacing the 30 yr Old XPT (& other regional Trains). with something from this century. A direct train service to the new Badgerys Creek Airport should be Top of the Agenda....IMHO. |
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#28 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
Greyhound coaches have it. On Badgerys Creek, I could never understand why they didn't convert Richmond RAAF base into Sydney's second airport given there is already a perfectly good rail line to Richmond. I can remember the RAAF saying they were going to relocate at some stage somewhere else.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 1,717
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Quote:
If anything, building this rail corridor would be a return to the days where we were proactive in our infrastructure development, instead of waiting 30 years after we actually need it to get around to investigating it. |
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#30 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,019
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China is the only country with regional high speed rail it seems, also look at the progress they've made in the past decade, admittedly they don't have to argue everything in parliament nor work on 3 year election cycles though ![]() |
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