7:30 Report on Ford (advertisement for Holden)

[windsor xxww]

forget the crap wheres the swansong?i say bring on some factory hi specials of the xr6 turbo before the end to show em whos the king!they can make some real killer turbos before the end so lets show em that the king isnt dead!if they aint got the nuts to build some hot turbos before the end were in more trouble than i thought.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by Super Snake

They should have competed with Holden and built a Coupe, just like the Monaro. A Ford GT coupe would have been HOT. I certainly would have bought one, instead a I bought a Monaro.
I love V8 Coupes, Ford didn't have one, Holden did.
I have 3, a 04 Monaro, a XAGT Coupe ( have owned it for 20 years ) and a Mustang.

Like Polyal said, Ford woudn't have sold enough to warrant the investment. Remember, while it was a great marketing exercise for Holden the only reason the Monaro lasted as long as it did was because of exports. It sold something like 1200 to 1500 a year here vs about 25000 in the US I think.

I think the Mustang would be a great addition to the Ford line up though. But in it's current guise it just isn't up to scratch technologically. Now if the next model is based on the Orion platform . And that way the low numbers wont matter because it's a global car and our market is just a niche.

Originally Posted by JC

That would be BMW then?.

Yep exactly. I left that bit off my post but didn't notice until it was too late. I assumed most people on this forum would know who I meant.

[JP300+]

Is this going to be the end of the Aussie built engines designed and made here?

If so then this is a very sad time!!

[Paul]

Sorry guys, but I had to have a good chuckle at this thread.

The second anything bad - yet unequivocally true - is said about Ford, it's a "Holden advertisement"!

What a joke...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Didn't Holden just lay off a HEAP off production workers recently and that barely caused a stir!

You may be surprised to know that Holden didn't have to lay off anyone, they made their intentions clear that a third shift was no longer warranted or viable and asked who would leave voluntarily.
What this does is put a feeling of guilt in the minds of some who are neering retirement and have no large mortgages, to step aside and let the younger generation have a go at a future.
They have done it this way for years.
Infact they had more offers of people willing to take packages than the 1500 they required.

One of the reasons employee's were so keen to leave was due to the increase in the job oppertunities in the northern suburbs of Adelaide.
This can be contributed to the Government and it's ability to secure defence contracts and the upcoming mining boom here.
Elizabeth is a satellite city much like Geelong however there appears to be more going on here job wise than in Geelong and so not as big an impact will be felt when these things happen.

my 2c

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Infact they had more offers of people willing to take packages than the 1500 they required.

That's because of how Holden treats it's workers. Well at least at their Dandenong parts warehouse (Vic). Everybody want's to get out of there!

Really they probably aren't any worse than most large companies; treat their workers like numbers instead of people. Well that's my mums opinion anyway and she has worked there for more than 15 years. I only did a few summer shifts personally.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

That's because of how Holden treats it's workers. Well at least at their Dandenong parts warehouse (Vic). Everybody want's to get out of there!

Really they probably aren't any worse than most large companies; treat their workers like numbers instead of people. Well that's my mums opinion anyway and she has worked there for more than 15 years. I only did a few summer shifts personally.

I dont know about melb. based operations but i can tell you the majority of people here in the northern suburbs are proud to work there and get treated well, i personally know heaps of Holdens employees and they have no prob's going home with $1k a week, depending on shift, for assembling vehicles.
There is a shortage of skilled labourers out this way so the opportunity to earn a tradies wage for doing a repetitive job aint too bad

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

That's because of how Holden treats it's workers. Well at least at their Dandenong parts warehouse (Vic). Everybody want's to get out of there!

Really they probably aren't any worse than most large companies; treat their workers like numbers instead of people. Well that's my mums opinion anyway and she has worked there for more than 15 years. I only did a few summer shifts personally.

Mate last downbalance at Ford in Campbellfied was the same, there were more then enough people willing to leave Ford, this new lot of people leaving will yield the same as they'll let people go in Campbellfield and offer people in geelong to work up here.

Also there was culling of people in the Holden engine plant here at Fishermans bend.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont know about melb. based operations but i can tell you the majority of people here in the northern suburbs are proud to work there and get treated well, i personally know heaps of Holdens employees and they have no prob's going home with $1k a week, depending on shift, for assembling vehicles.
There is a shortage of skilled labourers out this way so the opportunity to earn a tradies wage for doing a repetitive job aint too bad

I didn't say the money was bad, in fact it's bloody good for unskilled labour (forklift licence not withstanding). Especially the afternoon shift, they make as much as me and I went to Uni for 4 years.

Like I said, this is the dandenong spare parts warehouse. I don't know what the manufacturing plants are like. And I'm not trying to fling mud at Holden's employment practices either, at any of their sites, just in case thats what it sounds like. It's just one person's experience.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You may be surprised to know that Holden didn't have to lay off anyone, they made their intentions clear that a third shift was no longer warranted or viable and asked who would leave voluntarily.
What this does is put a feeling of guilt in the minds of some who are neering retirement and have no large mortgages, to step aside and let the younger generation have a go at a future.
They have done it this way for years.
Infact they had more offers of people willing to take packages than the 1500 they required.

One of the reasons employee's were so keen to leave was due to the increase in the job oppertunities in the northern suburbs of Adelaide.
This can be contributed to the Government and it's ability to secure defence contracts and the upcoming mining boom here.
Elizabeth is a satellite city much like Geelong however there appears to be more going on here job wise than in Geelong and so not as big an impact will be felt when these things happen.

my 2c

Unlike Geelong though, which is a major regional centre 0f 190,000 people, Elizabeth i still in the metropolitan area of a city with a population of 1.2 million. Geelong residents can still commute to Melbourne easily enough though, but it's not at their disposal like the large Northern suburbs base is to Elizabeth. IMO it's a shame they didn't build the whole factory HQ in Geelong...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

I didn't say the money was bad, in fact it's bloody good for unskilled labour (forklift licence not withstanding). Especially the afternoon shift, they make as much as me and I went to Uni for 4 years.

Like I said, this is the dandenong spare parts warehouse. I don't know what the manufacturing plants are like. And I'm not trying to fling mud at Holden's employment practices either, at any of their sites, just in case thats what it sounds like. It's just one person's experience.

Ok mate, calm down, you might like to read back through the thread as to what i have said.
My first post was in regards to a claim that Holdens 'laid off' a large number of workers from it's MANUFACTURING plant and you replied with the reason they took voluntary packages was proberbly due to the conditions.
I wrote that, although im not familliar with a WAREHOUSE in Melbourne, that from many accounts the reason for the mass exodus from the Elizabeth operations was not due to working conditions or how they 'get treated' but rather more opportunities.
Thats my experiences, from Elizabeth, where the subject matter arose.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Unlike Geelong though, which is a major regional centre 0f 190,000 people, Elizabeth i still in the metropolitan area of a city with a population of 1.2 million. Geelong residents can still commute to Melbourne easily enough though, but it's not at their disposal like the large Northern suburbs base is to Elizabeth. IMO it's a shame they didn't build the whole factory HQ in Geelong...

Isn't that ironic.....If you live in Elizabeth you are geographically part of metropolitan Adelaide however treated and looked upon as from another planet..... :

[red_hotxr6]

Actually all i have been hearing is how many times the ve was being recalled and how many workers have been laid off at holden.The media just dont highlight Holden,s misgivings as much as Ford.Just like rugby league, heaven help us if a qld team beats a nsw team its just not right.Ford will keep on going, the media are just stirring the pot and if push come to shove ill drive a toyota before i drive a holden.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Actually all i have been hearing is how many times the ve was being recalled and how many workers have been laid off at holden.The media just dont highlight Holden,s misgivings as much as Ford.Just like rugby league, heaven help us if a qld team beats a nsw team its just not right.Ford will keep on going, the media are just stirring the pot and if push come to shove ill drive a toyota before i drive a holden.

Very true that!

It worries me that the media can sensationalise one thing and bury another thing.

I have a couple of theories on the matter.

1)Holden and Toyota have bigger marketing budgets than Ford so the media is very friendly to them.

2) A lot of people have a belief that Holden is Australian while Ford is yank so tend to go easy on Holden on the mistaken belief that they are being patriotic and helping Australia.

3)People are idiots.

It is frustrating that people can be mis informed but worrying that I am probably misinformed about a lot of things that I'm not clued up on like computers and tax what food is good for you.

What can you believe?

[Fez WQ]

I would think with in 5 years Ford will reap the beniefts of the struggle now. Holden wll be like the daewoo of the 90s trust me its going to happen!
Ford are just re foucusing were as Holden are running from the real issues that the product is not suitable to the market
...............................Think about that one and see ya driving a Ford in 5 years

[ltd]

Ford is laying foundations for some fantastic future opportunities such as exports and the global parts bin of hybrid technology etc and european/australian models. My predictions are:
Ford will be number 1 from 2012 onwards, Toyota number 2 and Holden will be number 3 thanks to their daewoo crap and over-zealous cost cutting efficiency drives.

Don't believe me? Just wait and see.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Actually all i have been hearing is how many times the ve was being recalled and how many workers have been laid off at holden.The media just dont highlight Holden,s misgivings as much as Ford.Just like rugby league, heaven help us if a qld team beats a nsw team its just not right.Ford will keep on going, the media are just stirring the pot and if push come to shove ill drive a toyota before i drive a holden.

One thing that should be remembered is that the VE is a new car, everybody knows that the first run of a new model is the worst due to teething prob's.
The s1 VN was a shocker, the s1 VT was too heavy, but both platforms went on to be successful.
The EA was a disgrace, the s1 AU was regarded as far from adequate.

As for Holdens layig off workers, My nephew has worked at the Elizabeth plant for 8yrs and put his name down for a package and was knocked back.
If they were laying off people as the media makes you believe dont you think they would start with any voluntary leavers?
I'd say anyone who was pushed that wasn't happy to leave may have been seen as 'dead wood'.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by ltd

Ford is laying foundations for some fantastic future opportunities such as exports and the global parts bin of hybrid technology etc and european/australian models. My predictions are:
Ford will be number 1 from 2012 onwards, Toyota number 2 and Holden will be number 3 thanks to their daewoo crap and over-zealous cost cutting efficiency drives.

Don't believe me? Just wait and see.

Perhaps 2012 may be a bit soon. It would be the first of the all-new falcons, which may put some people off. Then again, it didnt put people off of the VT, but times have changed.

I think the margins between the car makers will be a lot smaller. I agree that holden are taking a big risk with their daewoo garbage, but most people are idiots and will probably think it was made here anyway. Toyota are taking over the world, GM and Ford are still not out of the woods and have a great deal of catching up to do.

My prediction is Toyota #1 due to the continual appeal of the corolla and camry. It will be a hard mindset to change, especially with the changing car market towards more efficient cars. Ford will be number 2, but more of a spread between focus and falcon. Falcon will still be fords number 1, but some sales will be cannibalised to the focus. Hopefully fleets will get on board with an australian car and buy them over the corolla.

Holden, despite its reliance on korean garbage, will continue to sell but at number 3. Their sales will be predominantly based on the commodore, a bestseller in a shrinking market. Hopefully by then issues with the craptiva and epicrap will be highlighted, pushing the buyers towards toyota and ford.

The big question mark is the chinese. Who knows what they can pull out of their hats in the next 5 years or so. Going by holden safety standards and their popularity, if they pass crash testing (probably just) they will appear on our markets at an insanely low price and be very popular. Think korean cars in the 80s/90s, but worse. They will sell like hotcakes if they come to our shores, and they will be cheap. Provided they make it into the country.

[ltd]

King, excellent response mate. I give it 2012 because as is increasingly likely, Ford will be selling cars in the USA a couple of years before that. As for Toyota, they will be hard to knock back to number 2 but the corolla will be due for an update by then as well as Yaris and all the other cars so that may allure people to the Ford camp. The Mondeo will surely pull some camry buyers away as they seek to find something european and not european styled. Honestly, I think the Mondeo is the diamond in the rough here. Finally, falcon should have a massive impact on fleets with the orion, namingly for its supposed efficiency as well as relatively cheaper ownership than the toyota. This is where Holden will run into problems.

[tapeworm]

Althogh Ford had to pitch 600 jobs at Geelong they are creating 300 jobs at their other plant. Their also going to sart building the Ford Focus in Australia, I think in 2011. It is obvious that there is a lot less coverage from the media of Holdens short falls, but as a few others have said people consider them as a good company that supports Australia and builds Australian. Ford are considered yank and their shithouse marketing work doesn't help. Anyone that knows jack will automatically say Holden are better and Aussie, it's their perception. If Holden built a small Australian car boy would we all know about it, apart from those in the know no one will know Fords car is Australian. A lot of people will go out and buy a GM Daewoo thinking their supporting an Australian product.