A question regarding road laws (50 zones)

ILLaViTaR · 07-08-2007, 11:37 PM

I'm resitting my license tomorrow and I'm not 100% sure on speed limits.

The license is in Frankston.

Now it has a lot of industrial roads that are 60 and some residential roads that are 50.

A lot of these 50 roads turn onto 60 zones.

Since I don't know the area well I dunno whether every main road is 50, 60, 70 or 80 etc.

So say I turn out a side road (That is 50) onto a bigger road (still built up though) and it's actually a 70. Since I turned out a side road I won't see a sign instantly so how can I possibly know the limit of the road?

I heard you fail instantly of doing 10km under the limit.

What do I do?

falzoony · 07-08-2007, 11:41 PM

It's a shame your going tommorow because if you were going later you could just go around the area and learn all the speed limits. Well as far as I know, if there are no signs you do 50, but thats down side streets. so yeah I suppose I don't know either, and I only done my test a year ago!

ILLaViTaR · 08-08-2007, 12:08 AM

Yeah the rule is 50 with no signs in built up areas so If I come out ahead of one because I'm coming onto it from a side road I'll quote vicroads very own book.

I doubt they can use the common sense defense since this is a test and you're meant to be cautious on the road.

Powdered Toast Man · 08-08-2007, 10:12 AM

I havent read up on the rules since the 50km'h zone thing came in but the rule used to be that the speed limit is the same as the road you are coming from until you see a speed limit sign.

ie. If you are driving along a main road with an 80km/h limit and turn off at an intersection then technically that road is also 80km/h until you see a sign saying something different. I'm sure they would still mark you down if they think your doing the wrong speed though whatever the technicallity.

I think the speed limit in Frankston's town center is 50km/h, well at least I would expect so. May even be lower. The Nepean Highway is either 60km/h or 70km/h through town (pretty sure it's 60) then goes up to 80km/h out each end. The main road that runs through the town center next to the train tracks is either 60 or 70 once out of the town centre but I am pretty sure it is well signed. Treat all the small side streets in the town like 50 zones. I doubt you will be able to go too fast anyway as a lot are fairly tight and are usually very busy.

I used to travel in the area pretty much every day but it's been a few years since I was in Frankston. I think there has been some changes since I was there last. Grew up in Mornington but moved out to Pakenham a few years ago and have no need to go to Frangga anymore.

I did my test in Dromana back in the day (almost 11 years ago now) so I cant really help as far as what sort of circuit they may take you on. I used to go there during driving lessons a bit though.

DBourne · 08-08-2007, 10:19 AM

i'd just sit on 50 to be safe mate.

desGT · 08-08-2007, 10:25 AM

The basic rule is 50. If you turn into a street then just do 50 until you see a sign that says otherwise.

If you are doing 80 and turn into a street (no sign) and keep doing 80, guarrantee you will not pass your license.

trent · 08-08-2007, 12:59 PM

Built up areas are 50km/h unless signposted. You are only permitted to increase speed after you have travelled past the said speed limit signpost.

ILLaViTaR · 08-08-2007, 01:26 PM

Thanks I'll stick to 50.

Would it be wise to do 45 to be safe?

JC · 08-08-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Thanks I'll stick to 50.

Would it be wise to do 45 to be safe?

No - Unless you judge that travelling at the speed limit is actually dangerous (for example if the road is covered in 4 inches of water, it might be dangerous to do anything over about 20km/h, regardless of the posted limit.)

Studies in the US & UK have shown that 5km/h under the speed limit is actually more dangerous than the 5km/h deadliness the Vic government wants you to believe.

The slogan should actually be changed to "Lack of Speed Kills".

3vXT · 08-08-2007, 02:23 PM

i think he's more worried about failing the test for speeding than dying.

Keepleft · 08-08-2007, 02:35 PM

Exceed speed limit in a test is one of many 'automatic fail items' in all states.

mr_xr8 · 08-08-2007, 03:32 PM

just stick to 50 until you see a sign saying otherwise. only it it is raining then you should drop you speed by a few km/h and increase your gaps

08-08-2007, 05:18 PM

Too low under the speed limit and you fail also.

Oo_xrsx_oO · 08-08-2007, 10:46 PM

Surely a decent instructor knows every route a tester can take you on. I thought they would have familiarised you with all roads in the area so you don't have any worries like this before the test.

ILLaViTaR · 08-08-2007, 11:57 PM

Failed again but this time I challenged it.

60 in a 50 on my previous test was obviously my fault but I got had for dangerous driving this time and the situation it happened in was ridiculous enough to get my instructor riled up enough to talk to the manager.

This is how it goes.

1. I meet the tester and do they eye test I could tell he was a and was in a bad mood.

2. All is going well I do nothing wrong.

3. We come to a T intersection where he said turn right.

4. At that intersection there is a 4WD illegally parked right next to the intersection obscuring my vision.

5. I moved up and went extremely slowly trying to get as far up as I could safely.

6. I have around 50 degree vision and am already 1.5foot over the line on the main road.

7. I decided to go since it was as far up as I could get safely without a car colliding into me.

8. Then some ing retard comes hooning while I come out at like 90k's in a 60.

9. I'm right across the lane when I gain vision of him so I kept going since If I stopped and reversed back in he would've crashed into me so the safer and quicker option was to continue.

10. I clear him all fine he doesn't even bother to slow down and keeps going like 90 and there's still a reasonable amount of distance between us (around 2 seconds) but it was still fairly close.

11. The test still continues and 2 roads later he decides to say pull over so he's obviously been taking time to think about it. At this time it;s 4:15 and they close at 4:30 so the cuunt was just wanting to get home in time.

12. When we got back to vicroads my instructor said he's going to talk to the manager.

13. The manager doesn't even listen to us saying we should've given way when it was physically impossible since an illegally parked car was obscuring our vision.

14. The manager just kept saying you should've given way not listening to anything.

15. The tester I had also told the manager that my instructor had told him I had made a bad decision. This never happened and my instructor told the manager this. The tester is making up all these lies to protect himself.

16. I get home and dad's angry and we plan to write a letter to vicroads.

I don't see why I should fail in a situation that is impossible to avoid. I had to work around a speeding car and a illegally parked car (which was a 4WD) The tester is obviously a lying bastard that has no clue. The situation wasn't even that dangerous

So yes we are going to write a letter but we have no expectations.

Rodp · 09-08-2007, 07:53 AM

That's bad luck champ, a decent instructor would have read the situation and noticed that you were obscured and asked you to turn left instead. That's one of the reasons I hate these urban assault vehicles in city areas that never spend a day off the road.

Had you crept into the intersection and left there high and dry because there was traffic coming from your left he probably still would have failed you, a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Better luck next time.

Powdered Toast Man · 09-08-2007, 09:55 AM

I know of a person who failed because while stoping at some traffic lights that were going red (ie they were yellow) during the test some moron came screaming up behind him and went down the right hand turning lane and then through the lights. The guy doing the test did nothing wrong but failed for dangerous driving because somebody took evasive action to get around him so they could speed through the lights.

Sometimes, like Rodp said, you can't win no matter what you do.

At least you can have more of a drive around Frankston now, and you have an idea on what sort of route the tester will use next time.

ILLaViTaR · 09-08-2007, 07:23 PM

I'm really ****ed off because this is the second time I've failed (both at Frankston of course).

I went back to where I failed the first time and the 50 sign was behind a bloody tree)

Also Frankston is possibly the worst place to drive ever.

I'm booked in for September 13th and I know I will pass this time but it;s just a long wait.

It's also not cheap to do these tests (gotta get instructors car).

I'm really ****ed off because I know this time I done the best thing I could.

The manager there was horrible and didn't listen to anything.

I'm also booked in at Warragul I'm sick of Frankston and it's ridiculous instructors.

FPV8U · 09-08-2007, 08:13 PM

I feel for you mate, good luck in the next test.

I must have been the luckiest SOB on my test, my Tester and my instructor were just chatting about life with eachother the whole time (2x Females), the test lasted probably 10 mins Max i thought i had failed i was back at Vicroads so quick, got my 90% pass and cruised home.

Keepleft · 10-08-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I'm really ****ed off because this is the second time I've failed (both at Frankston of course).

I went back to where I failed the first time and the 50 sign was behind a bloody tree)

REM - the "default" built-up area speed-limit is 50km/h, a default applies at law when no speed-limit sign is posted along a road, in effect you should ways know the speed limit.

In your test, any 'tester intervention' is an automatic fail, rem that too. In the end ye shall be fine.

Hazard perception - note and reflect potential safety issues on the road, basically drive defensively, head check etc and so on.

http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/...safe_part9.mp3

outback_ute · 10-08-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

I havent read up on the rules since the 50km'h zone thing came in but the rule used to be that the speed limit is the same as the road you are coming from until you see a speed limit sign.

ie. If you are driving along a main road with an 80km/h limit and turn off at an intersection then technically that road is also 80km/h until you see a sign saying something different.

On a road the "same" as the one you are on perhaps, but not turning into a side street.

ILLaViTaR bad luck but perhaps given that you had identified that you didn't have enough vision of the oncoming traffic you could have said that to the tester and that you wanted to turn left instead. That would have gained you credit for good hazard perception.

schmidty · 11-08-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Failed again but this time I challenged it.

60 in a 50 on my previous test was obviously my fault but I got had for dangerous driving this time and the situation it happened in was ridiculous enough to get my instructor riled up enough to talk to the manager.

This is how it goes.

1. I meet the tester and do they eye test I could tell he was a and was in a bad mood.

2. All is going well I do nothing wrong.

3. We come to a T intersection where he said turn right.

4. At that intersection there is a 4WD illegally parked right next to the intersection obscuring my vision.

5. I moved up and went extremely slowly trying to get as far up as I could safely.

6. I have around 50 degree vision and am already 1.5foot over the line on the main road.

7. I decided to go since it was as far up as I could get safely without a car colliding into me.

8. Then some ing retard comes hooning while I come out at like 90k's in a 60.

9. I'm right across the lane when I gain vision of him so I kept going since If I stopped and reversed back in he would've crashed into me so the safer and quicker option was to continue.

10. I clear him all fine he doesn't even bother to slow down and keeps going like 90 and there's still a reasonable amount of distance between us (around 2 seconds) but it was still fairly close.

11. The test still continues and 2 roads later he decides to say pull over so he's obviously been taking time to think about it. At this time it;s 4:15 and they close at 4:30 so the cuunt was just wanting to get home in time.

12. When we got back to vicroads my instructor said he's going to talk to the manager.

13. The manager doesn't even listen to us saying we should've given way when it was physically impossible since an illegally parked car was obscuring our vision.

14. The manager just kept saying you should've given way not listening to anything.

15. The tester I had also told the manager that my instructor had told him I had made a bad decision. This never happened and my instructor told the manager this. The tester is making up all these lies to protect himself.

16. I get home and dad's angry and we plan to write a letter to vicroads.

I don't see why I should fail in a situation that is impossible to avoid. I had to work around a speeding car and a illegally parked car (which was a 4WD) The tester is obviously a lying bastard that has no clue. The situation wasn't even that dangerous

So yes we are going to write a letter but we have no expectations.

No offence mate, but that's life. Sometimes you've gotta improvise. If it was a dangerous situation, regardless of the vehicle illegally parked you should have said to the tester "i'm sorry, it's not safe to turn here so i'll have to turn left and find a way back."

You can't blame someone elses's stupid actions for everything, because as much as they shouldnt have been there, you're going to come across situations like this day in day out while there's so many on the road.

May sound a little bit harsh, but you were in control of the vehicle, and by taking off when you couldnt see what was coming you could have put your passengers safety in jeopardy - understand you may have made it out, but there's always the what if scenarios where yeah you made it, but if anything went wrong you may have been in strife eg. stalled in the intersection, wheel spin and didnt get away quick enough. or mis judged on coming vehicles speed etc.

Bit stiff that stuff like that happens on your test, but its a real world test to test you in real world situations. Just cop it on the chin and go back with a positive and confident mindset and you'll kill it.

ler · 11-08-2007, 09:45 PM

there might be critical and non-critical errors.

do you get to take your instructor with you on your test in victoria?

ILLaViTaR · 12-08-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

No offence mate, but that's life. Sometimes you've gotta improvise. If it was a dangerous situation, regardless of the vehicle illegally parked you should have said to the tester "i'm sorry, it's not safe to turn here so i'll have to turn left and find a way back."

You can't blame someone elses's stupid actions for everything, because as much as they shouldnt have been there, you're going to come across situations like this day in day out while there's so many on the road.

May sound a little bit harsh, but you were in control of the vehicle, and by taking off when you couldnt see what was coming you could have put your passengers safety in jeopardy - understand you may have made it out, but there's always the what if scenarios where yeah you made it, but if anything went wrong you may have been in strife eg. stalled in the intersection, wheel spin and didnt get away quick enough. or mis judged on coming vehicles speed etc.

Bit stiff that stuff like that happens on your test, but its a real world test to test you in real world situations. Just cop it on the chin and go back with a positive and confident mindset and you'll kill it.

1. There's to be no talking during the test he stated that I can only ask him to repeat instructions and wasn't gonna risk failing by questioning his skill in not discovering a hazard.

2. I had good vision that was safe enough to go to the roads limit (50kmph). I didn't know some would come along doing 30kmph over the limit.

3. If it was me just driving daily I would've just turned left or if there was no traffic I would've got out the car ran and looked up the road lol, the vision was that bad.

ILLaViTaR · 12-08-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pqzm

there might be critical and non-critical errors.

do you get to take your instructor with you on your test in victoria?

Yeah my instructor was with me and witnessed everything.

He believed I done the right thing and was outraged that the tester failed me.

**GasoLane** · 12-08-2007, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Yeah my instructor was with me and witnessed everything.

He believed I done the right thing and was outraged that the tester failed me.

If you dad is writing a letter, get your instructor to back you up.

ILLaViTaR · 12-08-2007, 08:21 PM

Yeah my dads ****ed off that the tester wasn't competent enough to analyse the situation and ask me to turn left.

After thinking about it he put me in a bloody dangerous situation.

I didn't ask to turn left due to the fact he would've failed me for questioning him.

He also stated to me the only method of communication would be to ask to repeat his instruction.

**GasoLane** · 14-08-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I didn't ask to turn left due to the fact he would've failed me for questioning him.

He also stated to me the only method of communication would be to ask to repeat his instruction.

I'm afraid with an attitude like that I'd be tempted to salute with a straight arm and say "YAHOWL MEIN FÜHRER !!!"