BMW VS ASTON Crash

[Tiapan]

good job steffo! there is no way that the car was travelling anywhere near 150km when it hit that pole, more like 60-70km, he must have lost alot of speed skidding and hitting the island, just think of the physics, 2 tonne + 150km hitting a steel pole

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Tiapan

good job steffo! there is no way that the car was travelling anywhere near 150km when it hit that pole, more like 60-70km, he must have lost alot of speed skidding and hitting the island, just think of the physics, 2 tonne + 150km hitting a steel pole

Yeah I agree. If he hit that pole at 150km/h in a normal road car, not something like a full-tube-frame racecar like a DTM or V8 Supercar... he'd be toast. The car would be in two, barely resembling a car anymore and he'd be splat.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yeah I agree. If he hit that pole at 150km/h in a normal road car, not something like a full-tube-frame racecar like a DTM or V8 Supercar... he'd be toast. The car would be in two, barely resembling a car anymore and he'd be splat.

I agree with you, the speed will be media hype, estimates of the speed they reached etc, but it would still come out a hell of a lot better than anything built here.

[V8falcons]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Where do I start?

The E60 takes the idea that the E28, E34 and E39 were and completley warps and destroys it.

They were the ultimate "executive express," whereas this new thing doesn't know what it is. Its trying to be a Ferrari F430 or Porsche 911 Turbo in the package of a big, heavy family sedan? Fail.

An engine with 373kW @ 7750rpm and 520Nm @ 6100rpm does not belong in a 1755kg luxury sedan. Looking at the buyer demographic at the M5, E63 and RS6... it doesn't make sense. The E63 has a 6.2litre V8 with 378kW @ 6800rpm, 630Nm @ 5200rpm (500Nm @ 2000rpm, 530Nm @ 3000rpm...) and the RS6 has a 650Nm @ 1500rpm 5.2 TT V10 (426kW @ 6250rpm). Take a guess why the other big fat luxury cars with their super torquey engines make sense and the ultra highly strung M5 with less torque then a VE HSV doesn't...

Then there's the gearbox setup they've got in it. The SMGIII I have no gripe with, I love sequential manual gearboxes... however... why it needs 500,000 different settings is beyond me. There's also the engine's stupid setup... why is there a need for a "294kW," mode? That does't make sense. And furthermore, why is the gearbox restricted to only being capable of automatic function in 294kW mode? Why are there 500,000 different settings for the suspension? Why does the car have to be so complicated? Don't forget how slow it is in 294kW mode (14.6's down the 1/4) and the already poor overtaking ability you get with such a highly strung engine (cruising in 7th would require a downshift through 5 gears to overtake say, a B-Double... that's 5 gears you have to cycle through yourself... in your big 'lazy,' luxury car).

The whole "four door supercar," thing doesn't work. And then when you get really down and dirty... its not even that fast!

Nurburgring-Nordschleife:

BMW E60 M5 - 8:13
HSV VTII GTS300 - 8:15
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo9 - 8:11
Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG - 8:06 (2150kg superfat luxo coupe anyone?)
BMW E92 M3 - 8:05 (baby brother???)
Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series - 7:45 (1760kg, fat Mercedes with an auto!?)

So the "ultimate driving machine," can't beat an Evo, a fat SL55 steel-roof two tonne convertible, its baby brother, and a similarly sized fat Mercedes coupe with an autobox. It also barely is able to beat a washed out 7 year old 300kW HSV.

Don't forget how fragile they are. Almost everyone that's tested one has broken all sorts of things on it. Watch the Top Gear M5 test... they break all sorts of stuff and comment on it negatively.

There's more, but that about covers it for the moment...

PPFFTTTTTT,I dont know HOW you could lower your self to jump in to your spectron van on LPG and drive off to work/TAFE/school with all that knowledge and experience under your belt.
How do they drive ,How many of these Have you driven or have you just read a few mags and watched a few episodes of topgear?

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Steffo

There's more, but that about covers it for the moment...

What about how a VW Polo will hose it down the quarter mile and around any given track

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by vctxr6ute

PPFFTTTTTT,I dont know HOW you could lower your self to jump in to your spectron van on LPG and drive off to work/TAFE/school with all that knowledge and experience under your belt.
How do they drive ,How many of these Have you driven or have you just read a few mags and watched a few episodes of topgear?

Don't waste your time, it's all been said before

[J_Tank]

I've been around that corner at a "reasonable" and would imagine he would have had to be driving pretty damn fast... or sending a text message... to do that.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yeah I agree. If he hit that pole at 150km/h in a normal road car, not something like a full-tube-frame racecar like a DTM or V8 Supercar... he'd be toast. The car would be in two, barely resembling a car anymore and he'd be splat.

More mindless dribble....

how many accidents scene's with a 150km/h impact into a pole have you had first hand experience with ?

If you really want to know pm me, I'll tell you what it's really like, I'll also tell you what it's like having the driver die in your arms after you've spent an hour trying to cut them out of their car.

You obviously have no idea :

[V8falcons]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

More mindless dribble....

how many accidents scene's with a 150km/h impact into a pole have you had first hand experience with ?

If you really want to know pm me, I'll tell you what it's really like, I'll also tell you what it's like having the driver die in your arms after you've spent an hour trying to cut them out of their car.

You obviously have no idea :

I hear you...........

VOTE 1 STEFFO FOR PM

[poolkeeper]

Originally Posted by J_Tank

I've been around that corner at a "reasonable" and would imagine he would have had to be driving pretty damn fast... or sending a text message... to do that.

I drive that stretch of road all the time, there is pretty much no where to go fast there, unless your pushing it and asking for trouble.

[Ghiadude]

He's(steffo) entitled to his opinion based in magazines, tv shows or whatever (however wrong i think it is) personally the guy driving obviously confused ambition with ability and if i could choose between the Audi, Merc and BMW Id have a hard time saying no to the Audi..

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by vctxr6ute

PPFFTTTTTT,I dont know HOW you could lower your self to jump in to your spectron van on LPG and drive off to work/TAFE/school with all that knowledge and experience under your belt.
How do they drive ,How many of these Have you driven or have you just read a few mags and watched a few episodes of topgear?

Spectron van on LPG hey? Interesting...

Anyway... I've been in the new M6 (that one does the Nurburgring in 8:07.76 if anyone's interested) which is the M5's faster, two door brother. I'm not a fan.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

More mindless dribble....

how many accidents scene's with a 150km/h impact into a pole have you had first hand experience with ?

If you really want to know pm me, I'll tell you what it's really like, I'll also tell you what it's like having the driver die in your arms after you've spent an hour trying to cut them out of their car.

You obviously have no idea :

I've never been to such an accident scene, and hope I never have to. I'd imagine its not very pretty.

You can pm me your experience if you like, but if its what I envisage it would be, a bunch of "you're this, you're that blah blah," then you might aswell refrain from doing so.

How do I deduct that 150km/h into a pole in a normal road car would cause carnage worse then above? The design of the monocoque chassis and simple physics (kinetic energy etc). I hope I never see my theory (or anyone else's) put to the test and/or eventuate either way.

[Polyal]

Im sure BMW will be shattered with its loss of one sale.

The M5 is a weapon of a sedan. The fact that it can run with other sports cars is a bonus; perhaps comparing it to other sedans is better. As you said, BMW have a heap of other cars if you want a "sports car".

[Yellow_Festiva]

Your kidding......

Before I went overseas in 2006, I used to live in Vaucluse 200m from that location in a huge house with 17 other house mates.......

This does NOT surprise me in the least... I would get almost run off the road on a weekly basis in the humble Festiva caus these young (and old) guys in their expensive cars would cane it in that location. (This is at the top of a steep twisty incline).

Last year, or the year before a Porsche lost it further down in Double bay (or was it Rose Bay?) and mounted the gutter and totally demolished a bus stop, the really solid ones that look like a small hut.....

There is a guy that lives up there with a Black Landcruiser. Has about a 8 inch lift kit as well as 36 inch rubber.... He would be up my rear at times.... even if I was in the left lane doing the limit.... his headlights would have been level with my review mirror, was heaps of fun at night when this happened.

I would see him down the street, park wherever he wanted, then when it was time to go, just drive across the 4 lane road, right over the cement divider and go home (caus he could).

Wish I was behind this tool to pull over and laugh my guts out.....

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

What about how a VW Polo will hose it down the quarter mile and around any given track

Not a Polo... but you want a list of VAG products that are faster?

Sticking to the good old N-Ring theme...

M5 = 8:13
Audi R8 = 8:04
Audi RS4 = 7:58

And a few silly ones I know but...
Bugatti EB 16/4 Veyron = 7:40
Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 = 7:40
Lamborghini Murcielago = 7:43.5
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera = 7:46
Lamborghini Gallardo = 7:52

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=4571e21f46306

RS4 wins vast majority.

You're right though... I like VW more then BMW.

[The Stylist]

Highly doubt the speed on impact was 150Km/h, more like 30-45Km/h. In case of reference, just check out the pole tests conducted by euro NCAP.

Not a pleasent scene regardless.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by The Stylist

Highly doubt the speed on impact was 150Km/h, more like 30-45Km/h. In case of reference, just check out the pole tests conducted by euro NCAP.

Not a pleasent scene regardless.

This would be correct. If the BMW was driving the direction he was facing, he would have just exited from a very sharp inclined hairpin like left turn.

The 'straight' that he was on would have been about 40-60 metres IIRC. As well as being on an incline.....

However, if they were actually going the other direction, 150km/h would not be an issue, as the road is pretty straight after this point for at least 400-500m.

[Bent8]

Yes I agree with Steffo here...the M5 is fast and handles very well for it's size/weight but it has too many bad points which let it down IMO.

Apart from all the good points Steffo has already mentioned, I'd like to add the stupid pathetic awful i-Drive onboard computer that's sooo complicated that BMW offers a training course on how to navigate the system.

I also agree about the 294kW mode, it's actually slower than an E36 M3. So what's the point of it then, it's just another silly marketing gimmick. (BTW, the Corvette ZR1 also had this feature)

Then we have the non-cancelling indicator stalks, don't know how or why a $230,000 car doesn't have this basic feature. Maybe they overlooked it when they were deciding on how many shift firmness settings the (very jerky at low speed) gearbox should have, it has 7 by the way

Has anyone heard this thing idling away??...not that great if you ask me, it sounds like a diesel if nothing else (apparently a result of the header design).

The interior design is a mess IMO, and the exterior design is acceptable at best...thanks alot Mr Bangle!! :

Let's hope the unfortunate owner of this Beemer realizes this was a wake up call to ditch the M5 and get themselves a brand-spanking new E63 AMG. :

[thexyking]

Originally Posted by fmc351

I agree with you, the speed will be media hype, estimates of the speed they reached etc, but it would still come out a hell of a lot better than anything built here.

Yeah, media hype like when they get some drugs and claim a 'street' value of $10m when what the recover actually cost $8.50.

[Rev28K]

I see a few of them outside the local hospital and there was one screaming around Ringwood that sounded very nice.

I don’t think the new M5 will go down as a classic model, just think of it as a “transition” model before all of the ideas are perfected and integrated nicely. Ferrari, Maserati and Aston Martin had a few problems with their smart auto models so BMW aren’t Robinson Caruso. The next M5 will be better (like the new M3 SMG will hopefully be better than the old one).

It’ll be interesting to see if BMW go for a twin turbo M5 version to counter the new Audi RS6. The America-only manual M5 is meant to suffer from pretty severe axle tramp under acceleration so maybe they might go for some torque limiting software at low front wheel rotating speeds to sort it out. I’ve got no problems with a valet switch or having the favorite settings stored using the “M” button.

Question – A few years ago there was a s***fight going on about who owned the car’s data recorded before a crash. Some of the models at the time could save 10 seconds worth of inputs before a crash – speed, accelerator position, steering, lateral G, brake input, etc. The argument went in the result of a crash who “owned” this data and could other people access it.

Could the cops get it to prove that someone was acting like a madman on the roads before a fatality?
Did the owner “own” the data and they didn’t have to release an incriminating data.
Did the car companies own the data (so they could use it to determine crash speeds, impacts, deformation, causes, etc so hopefully they can design better or safer cars)

Was this issue ever resolved?
And who in Australia has rights to access this data?

(didn’t the coroner download the Motec data from Peter Brock’s Daytona crash?)


Still 1:41’s for an M5 at Winton (1:39’s for the M6) aren’t too shabby for a porky sedan.

[Fev]

the new m3 looks awesome.. V8 revving to 8grand? Hell yeah