Interesting figures--- NT road toll.

[Keepleft]

You have got to love? Harold Scruby; -

He's either chasing mums n dads dropping off kids at school who do so near parked cars/crossings etc (and partly proper), or is seeking to change the flag via his involvement with AUSFLAG, or is gathering funds for WALK events from RTA and all and sundry, to resisting NT advocates for their push to return speed derestriction, to nagging governments in order to ban bull bars.

Sometimes he has varying degrees of success.

He would be the ultimate dictator, and wouldn't last long.

Harold referencing NT folk as 'hillbillies' is typical of the arrogance shown by his reformist ilk, and those of NT Labour advocates. It is sad but true, the days of old Labour have gone.

Only NT people can decide what to do, and I think most folk realise that its a big ask for CLP to take back the many seats required to win office. But, stranger things have happened, and I hope on this subject - they do.

Many, many issues in NT.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Tote

Keepleft,
You seem wise to the ways of politics, how is it that people like Prof fieldes can be regarded as an "expert" and be so out of step with the progressive policies that you espouse?

It would seem to indicate that Monash Uni where a lot of accident "statistics" come from has a very different view of the world.

Regards,
Tote

Monash generally does:-) For now - politically speaking, I'd be seeing change over the next 3 - 12 years;-

1. I am primarily concerned with the affairs of NSW - first and foremost.

2a. I accept that 'the States' have the most 'effective' legal power - where it counts, in our daily lives.

2b. NSW will retain as much of that parliamentary power as possible, rarely if ever surrendering any of it to Canberra whatsoever. All parliamentary jurisdictions (both parties & inds) would be well advised to appreciate same.

3. I recognise the "UN Convention on Road Traffic, Signs & Signals". This has great safety benefit for road users, and needs no domestic secondary study by Teaching Universities and 'Standards' members.
* NSW will work with this as adopted in 49' Gazz 53, but importantly also with later edition and amendments - as suited to domestic need.

4. NSW to recognise for domestic requirement, the important work of the UN Road Transport Division in its ongoing development of "Global Technical Regulations For Motor Vehicles".
* So adopted per ADR and NVS. NSW will function with this, but will reserve the 'state right' to mandate features of it - as a requirement for registration. These are features often 'opted-out' of by an indifferent, weak Canberra management. (Of what is existing national requirement mentioned above as ADR and NVS).

5. The domestic road safety 'industry' is on notice that it should not rely in ongoing NSW roads agency funding as a source of cash. This includes NSW RTA's current fetish for external 'consultants' who are often (but not always), expert at duplication of existing research with outcome simply 'twisted' to suit the originator. Funding cutback would extend to particular 'community' walk and cycle like events.

6. Much road safety work, would be done in-house, by paid-for-experience, full-time staff. NSW environmental requirements (EPA/planning) for road building remain.

7. NSW existing roads agency staffers would be re-focussed on domestic infrustructure issues, meaning fewer 'irrelevant' interstate visits. Some AUSROADS issues here.... This could see existing RTA broken-up.

8. All NSW departments will again be reminded that its Parliament alone represents ultimate legal authority; that 'agency policy', alone, does not suffice as enforceable law, and that employees therefore are directly answerable to it, and *not* to interstate colleagues or process, in general.

9. The working legal relationship beween NSW and the ARR harmonisation process be reviewed. This includes our function on inter jurisdictional Australian Transport Council.
http://www.atcouncil.gov.au/about_us/about_us.aspx

NSW will in time make legislative changes on whatever existing ARR regulation it deems necessary for safety in-this-state.

Minor example of why this concern arose; prior to ARR December 1, 1999 adoption, NSW had seperate traffic regulations that required - that all vehicle or vehicle combinations over 4 tonnes GVM, and caravans; - had to carry three warning triangles.

ARR set this as 12 tonnes and over with no caravan requirement, so our position in safety was reduced. (Ref Yass crash and like examples). This will change.

Another;- NSW gave Australia ARR 21(e) - 'The use of hazard warning lights on moving vehicles in fog', (intended where a vehicle does not have a rear fog). NSW would recind this as it runs contrary to the UN Road Traffic Convention on the permissible use of the subject lights. On the flipside as the offset, we'd mandate rear fogs on new market vehicles as a requirement for registration in-this-state.

And we can.

Some NSW road agency employees lack an understanding of what they could actually achieve for NSW in safety benefit, these are folk locked-in to a dreary drawn out (and increasingly 'private') national process, and have it their mindset perhaps that Parliament somehow lacks the 'power, will or capability'. These employees need to be addressed. I know, not all staffers are so.

Work for this state and its benefit, or out the door they shall depart.

That is all an aside from the general inefficiency noted by so many across the NSW agencies. Any government of any colour, will have, and has,- a pig of a time addressing this miserable state of affairs.

It will be done, but will not involve the many VIC and SA based road safety hangers on:-)

I DO give RESPECT to VICTORIA, to its Parliament, for using state law to implement as a requirement for registration, EBS and head airbags on new market vehicles after 2011. To be done, IF the Feds have not by then achieved same.

The positive flow on effect, will be a national one.
http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...e_controversy/

All of which highlights why the states will again take greater care of its own. NSW will do so too.

[HOEBAG]

Hillbillies hey?!

Pretty sure i like fords, all shapes sizes, love my beer and XXXX / VB
love music
and live in the sticks
of course i'm a hillbilly

[Keepleft]

A update from NT News re that helicopter & semi reference made in one of my posts above;-
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...64_ntnews.html

Snip -

In 2006 an ABC helicopter pilot was charged with reckless operation of a helicopter after flying low to film a car travelling at 200km/h along the Stuart Highway for a news story about speed limits. He was later cleared.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

A update from NT News re that helicopter & semi reference made in one of my posts above;-
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...64_ntnews.html
In 2006 an ABC helicopter pilot was charged with reckless operation of a helicopter after flying low to film a car travelling at 200km/h along the Stuart Highway for a news story about speed limits. He was later cleared.
Snip -

LOL you've got to give it to those news heli pilots. I was once coming up the coast in a Manly ferry (!) and a news helo dropped over to film us. He went down to film the bow wave and dropped out of our sight (in the wheelhouse) below the bow - as we were still steaming forward!!! :

Keepleft you should be a dictator yourself! _2:

[Tealglow]

Why doesn't Scruby come here to the NT and act as a rep of the Pedestrian council and keep the pedestrians under control??

There is an inproportionate number of pedestrians killed on NT roads and not many are due to culpable driving.

We have TV ads to tell us not to sleep on roads and a substantial disregard of seatbelts.


Policeman risks crash in rescue

7 up & no seatbelt

[TOASTED]

Originally Posted by jim_reaper

Hillbillies hey?!

Pretty sure i like fords, all shapes sizes, love my beer and XXXX / VB
love music
and live in the sticks
of course i'm a hillbilly

Gidde-up!

[Keepleft]

NT Toll up, again - Per Shaker's post above.

2007 - the first full year of NT rural speed limits saw a decade high road toll result.

As at the 23rd July 08, NT has had 14 deaths more than for the corresponding period in 2007.
http://www.keepntlimitfree.org/Forum...s/Default.aspx

http://www.nt.gov.au/pfes/PFES/index...ion=page&p=148

The woman's death brings the road toll to 38 compared to 24 at the same time last year

That Sruby inspired, VIC sourced road safety program is going like the clappers.

Reinstate (//) in place of (130) and watch it fall.

[outback_ute]

How do the figures look if you only compare deaths on the Stuart Hwy?

Keepleft without wanting to derail the topic, I hope the rural default speed limit isn't lowered to 80-90km/h. What is wrong with doing 100km/h on a good dirt road. Of course you still need to drive to the conditions, but changing to an 80km/h speed limit is not going to "solve" that or achieve anything really apart from the need to install thousands of speed signs.

[aye you]

the major issue i see is that by lowering the limits to 80km/h-90km/h would increase the number of single vehicle accidents in the NT especially due to the vast distances of straight road. I recently did the drive for the first time since the limits were imposed and found that it was definatly alot more taxing on the mind to stay focused on the straight stretches of road.

I personally think the solution is not in imposing speedlimits on these roads, but in increased driver training. Something along the lines of making it compulsary to do defensive driving courses, and introducing courses to teach people how to handle driving at speed. I know in the NT, at least when I was doing my driver training, we never went above 100km/h. Having a few lessons where you are to drive at 130km/h with an instructor would be invaluable to a new driver.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

How do the figures look if you only compare deaths on the Stuart Hwy?

Keepleft without wanting to derail the topic, I hope the rural default speed limit isn't lowered to 80-90km/h. What is wrong with doing 100km/h on a good dirt road. Of course you still need to drive to the conditions, but changing to an 80km/h speed limit is not going to "solve" that or achieve anything really apart from the need to install thousands of speed signs.

We've had an 80km/h rural default before here in NSW, but it was on a prima facie basis.

The rural default is if you like - geographically large in potential, but small in its application as enforceable speed, because roads worthy in a safety-sense capable of sustaining a higher speed will and are posted with speed-limits higher than the rural default.

For its appliaction, this limit serves the nations worst of the worse rural roads; national park tracks, minor dirt roads and whatnot. This limit needs to err on the side of caution having regard these roads.

Two things, NT (all jurisdictions) could apply a rural default of 80 or 90km/h under ARR25. BUT, it'd be appropriate for the ARR to leave it to the jurisdictions whether or not they choose to accept this limit vis;

1. As an absolute maximum, enforced by speed fines per normal.
2. As a recommended maximum. The (//) cannot be used to signal this.
3. As a Prima Facie, where you can exceed it, IF it is safe to do, but if you crash or come under police notice for an offence/s, you are then routinely issued a ticket or other action.

The issue with (3) is that we need to tread carefully so as folk are not automatically assumed guilty under law for simply exceeding the limit.

So, where a state or territory decides to allow folk to go faster, I'd be choosing (2), a recommended maximum.

The sign used to signal (2) as I said is NOT the (//), but rather the R4-12 "END SPEED LIMIT" sign, (Eg; END 50) because it signals the start point of a rural road subject to the rural default, AND THAT the sign SPECIFICALLY is to be used where the road ahead has safety issues, such as hidden driveways, crossings, soft edges, poor camber etc.

The SPEED DERESTRICTION sign CAN ONLY be used to signal that the road length ahead has NO SPEED LIMIT.*

* L, P1, P2 and HEAVY VEHICLES remain speed-limited.
The license category by existing "LICENSE CONDITIONS" under other Acts.
Heavy vehicles remain speed-limited by ARR25.

So, the rural default needs to reflect the lousy rural roads.

[outback_ute]

I am old enough to remember the (//) sign in Vic, go back far enough there was probably a 50mph default limit also when cars had 4 wheel drum brakes and crossply tyres. So in other words you are not talking about changing the default limit without the reintroduction of the (//) signs? Perhaps another option for NT & freeways is what I understand they have on the German autobahns, which is if you have a crash over 130 you either have no insurance or have a hard time getting a payout.

[flappist]

The biggest hurdle here will be the pressure from the money machine.
IF the open limit is returned and IF the road toll drops this will be actual evidence that the whole "speed kills so we need more tax cameras" is in fact a farce.

How can scrooby argue that speed kills when it has been shown it doesn't. Of course he will backed by government money and government funded academic experts.

In the history of Australia there has never been a policy implemented that reduced government income rather than saved lives.....

[Outbackjack]

July 27th, 2008

A SENIOR Territory cop is offering his officers leave preference in return for booking the most motorists.

And this is despite NT Police always saying there are no quotas to be met.

Casuarina Police Station officer-in-charge Senior Sergeant John Ginnane sent an email to all the general duties members at the station in Darwin's northern suburbs on Tuesday, July 15, saying Traffic Infringement Notice figures "need to go up''.

The email, which was leaked to the Sunday Territorian, was labelled "IMPORTANT'' in the subject line and said he was offering an incentive for the officer who issues the most TIN's over the next two months.

"Lately I've received some mail that this station generates less than three TINs per day,'' he said.

"In light of our current road toll and the requirement for high-visibility, zero-tolerance policing, this issue frankly requires addressing.''

Sen-Sgt Ginnane said the figures needed to rise ``on both an immediate and ongoing basis''.

He then went on to say that whoever dishes out the most infringements by September 15 will have their first preference for 2009 gazetted leave ``guaranteed''.

"I don't care whether you're a Constable on or off probation, a substantive Sergeant or anything in between,'' he said.

"I don't care if you're married, de facto, single or celibate.

"I don't care how many Christmases you've had off (if any), or how many lots of school holidays you've had.

"If you have more TINs against your name than anyone else by September 15, you will go to the front of the queue for approved leave, regardless of circumstance.''

The email has stunned police officers, with one describing it as unbelievable.

Police media liaison officer Amy Sloan said yesterday no one was available to comment on the email.

"John Ginnane is interstate and we can't contact anyone who would comment over the weekend,'' she said.

[Keepleft]

READ THE ABOVE POST (or link below) PEOPLE, this is what its become about; R.E.V.E.N.U.E, - not 'safety'.

IF this story is true, then the 'fault' lies well above, at NT government level.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...12_ntnews.html


In a similar situational POV, Prof. Ian Johnston, Monash, has concern people increasingly think of these systems as mere revenue raisers, not as safety tools.

Face it, they become revenue raisers WHEN they are 'automatically' installed on good, brand new motorway clas roads, and when applied to existing high-standard roads.

Little wonder then the growing resistance to them in places like GB and EU.

Hopeless.

[Plugg3r]

All I know is I got pulled over 4 times this weekend and breatho'd twice..

I've never been pulled over, ive been driving for 2 years in NT.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

How do the figures look if you only compare deaths on the Stuart Hwy?

..............

In QLD if there are fatalities out bush they respond by installing more speed cameras in Brisbane to fix the problem.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by Wally

In QLD if there are fatalities out bush they respond by installing more speed cameras in Brisbane to fix the problem.

true ,glad i live nowhere near the big smoke anymore . saving money and getting points back too :

[Keepleft]

ANOTHER NT fatal, fog event.

The Northern Territory road toll stands at 39, compared to 26 at the same time last year, after a fatal accident in Darwin this morning.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...30/2318728.htm

Still, with NT Labour sidelining the road toll for discussion, it remains a sorta quite election topic.

They will of course reduce the 130km/h limit.

More info at the KeepNTLimitFree website.

[new2ford]

Very good editorial in 'Top Gear Australia', August 2008 issue. Sorry I don't have it to copy here - perhaps somebody does?

[OLDFORDNUT]

this is the report from NT road fatalities from 1998 and 1999check out the part where it says speed related=2.

Road Fatalities in the Northern Territory
Annual Report - 1999
Summary
x 49% were non-Aboriginal NT residents
x 35% were Aboriginal NT residents
x 8% were overseas visitors
x 8% were interstate visitors
x 41% were drivers
x 24% were pedestrians
x 16% were passengers
x 10% were motorcyclists
x 2% were cyclists
x 27% were struck pedestrians
x 25% were single vehicle rollovers
x 16% were ran off road
x 57% were alcohol-related
x 54% of the driver/passenger fatalities were not
wearing seatbelts
x 16% were speed-related
x 78% were male
x 47% were aged in their 20s
x 22% were aged in their 30s
x 8% were aged in their 40s
x 8% were aged in their late teens
x 6% were aged between 13 and 17 (high school)
x 4% were aged between 5 and 12 (primary school)
x 4% were aged in their 50s+
x 75% occurred in clear weather
x 61% occurred from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m.
x 96% occurred on dry roads
x 82% occurred on sealed roads
x 57% occurred in the rural areas
x 43% occurred in open speed limit
x 20% occurred in 80 speed limit
x 18% occurred in 60 speed limit
x 9% occurred in 100 speed limit
x 5% occurred in 70 speed limit
x 2% occurred in 40 speed limit
x 2% occurred in 110 speed limit
x 35% occurred in the Darwin Police District
x 8% occurred in the Alice Springs Police District
x 8% occurred in the Yulara Police District
x 6% occurred in the Timber Creek Police District
x 6% occurred in the Kulgera Police District
Road fatalities in the Northern Territory for the year
1999 were 49, which was 20 (or -29%) less than
1998. The 49 deaths were a result of 44 fatal crashes,
which was 15 (or 25%) less than 1998.
Road Fatalities: -
Year NT
NT Per 100,000
Population
Australia Per
100,000 Population
1999 49 25.4 9.28
1998 69 36.3 9.40
Of the 44 fatal crashes:-
i 12 were 'pedestrians struck by vehicles'
i 11 were 'single vehicle rollovers'
i 7 occurred where the car ran off the road without
colliding into something first
i 5 were 'objects struck by vehicles'
i 3 were 'angle collisions'
i 3 were 'head on collisions'
i 3 were 'rear end collisions'
i 1 was where the vehicle struck a light pole
i 1 was 'unknown'
Of the 44 fatal crashes:-
i 25 occurred in the rural areas and 19 in urban
areas.
i 34 occurred on sealed dry roads, 8 on unsealed
dry roads and 2 on sealed wet roads.
Of the 49 fatalities:
i 38 were male, 11 were female.
i 24 were non-Aboriginal NT residents, 17 were
Aboriginal NT residents, 4 were overseas visitors
and 4 were interstate visitors.
Of the 24 non-Aboriginal NT resident fatalities:
i The 24 deaths were a result of 21 fatal crashes.
i 15 were drivers. All were male. 4 of the drivers
were aged in their late teens, 7 were aged in their
20s, 2 were aged in their 30s and 2 were aged in
their 40s. 4 were not wearing the seatbelts. Eight
of the drivers had blood alcohol contents above
legal limit. Two fatal crashes were speed-related.
Road Fatalities in the Northern Territory
Annual Report - 1999
i 7 were passengers aged in their late teens and
20s. Three of them were not wearing seatbelts
and one was at the rear of utility/truck. Two of
the fatal crashes were alcohol-related.
i 4 were motorcyclists aged in their 20s and 30s.
All of the riders had blood alcohol contents above
the legal limit. One fatal crash was speed-related.
All the fatal crashes occurred in urban areas.
i 1 was a pedestrian aged in her 50s. The crash was
alcohol-related.
i 10 of the fatal crashes occurred in the Darwin
Police District, two in Adelaide River, two in
Alice Springs, two in Timber Creek and one in
each of the Katherine, Kulgera, Nhulunbuy and
Pine Creek Police Districts.
Of the 17 Aboriginal NT resident fatalities:
i The 17 deaths were a result of 17 fatal crashes.
i 2 were drivers aged in their 30s. Both of them
were not wearing the seatbelts and had blood
alcohol contents above legal limit.
i For 3 fatalities, it was unclear whether those
involved were the drivers or passengers of the
vehicles. All of them were not wearing seatbelts.
Two of the fatal crashes were alcohol-related.
i 1 was a motorcyclist aged in his late teens. The
fatal crash was speed-related.
i 11 were pedestrians. One was aged 9 years, one
was aged 17 years, 7 were aged in their 20s and 2
were aged in their 30s+. Seven of the pedestrians
had blood alcohol contents between .171 to .275.
Nine of the fatal crashes were alcohol related.
Ten occurred between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. (low
visibility).
i 6 of the fatal crashes occurred in the Darwin
Police District, two in Alice Springs and one in
each of the Umbakumba, Jabiru, Katherine,
Kulgera, Maranboy, Nhulunbuy, Timber Creek,
Neutral Junction and Port Keats Police Districts.
Of the 4 overseas visitor fatalities:
i The 4 deaths were a result of 4 fatal crashes. 3
were 'overturn' and one was 'head on'.
i The overseas visitors were from Netherlands,
Germany, Japan and Ireland.
i 1 was a driver aged in his 20s. The fatal crash
was speed-related.
i 2 were passengers aged in their 20s. Both of them
were not wearing seatbelts.
i 1 was a cyclist in her 30s. A helmet was not
worn. .\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
funny thing is each year its quite similar stats right through,why dont we have investigative Journalists anymore to make the general population aware that a lot of the statements made by self important fools are not based on any factual evidence.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

funny thing is each year its quite similar stats right through,why dont we have investigative Journalists anymore to make the general population aware that a lot of the statements made by self important fools are not based on any factual evidence.

I really don't think the general population cares all too much about the road toll, it is something they leave to 'the experts', and so we get much the same political treatment year in, year out. In NT's case, ALP decided it was not for discussion this election, and so it is - not . . . !

Australian apathy you see. Change takes time.

NT TOLL NOW AT 40 compared to the same period last year (07) which was year-one of NT's rural speed-limits, AND a decade high result.. So, 2008 looks set to be much worse than that, at this rate.

One of the recent fatal crash events in NT was fog related, these NT News pics (link below) show 'what it was like on the day'. I put this link here, as I was dealing with an NT Transport woman - for some years now, who point blank REFUSED all submitted 'text' (tuition) relating to the correct use of front and rear fog lights, that was intended for inclusion into the then NT drivers' handbook.

Even though multitudes of cars around her had them anyway, she reckoned she'd never seen one, I described the most obvious candidates "the 1988-1999 Excels, "that little red thing in the bumper":-) I suggested that seeing as we have cars with them, 'it might be a good idea to begin to teach people what they are, and when they may be used'. Duh...

"We don't get fog in Darwin Mr 000" she'd say, missing the point altogether that rear fogs are also used during torrential rain, in dustorms, bushire smoke conduitions etc....

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...83_ntnews.html

Lucky - I am mostly concerned with NSW, I'd be sacking a few NT employees. I've dealt with roads agency folk all over the world, I have to say by christ - we have some of the dumbest, yet a few good ones too.