Double clutch transmissions?

tweeked · 25-01-2012, 10:43 PM

I drive hire cars regularly in my work. I have plenty of experience with Audi and VW dsg boxes and have never liked them much. I put it down to that's what they are like in that family. I have just driven 300 km today in a brand new Focus. The car is great, but again the tranny is horrid.

Anything other than smooth, constant throttle completely confuses the micro chips out of it. This plus a reluctance to start moving sometimes. The VW and Audi were similar. On one hill turning right I momentarily lifted off then tried to accelerate, and it took a good 2 seconds to even start moving. It would have been dangerous if a car was coming.

My old 4 speed auto 2003 camry 4 cylinder is much more predictable and far smoother. I understand the efficiency gains, but I don't think I could live with the apparent lack of intuition of the tranny. I have never heard any negative comments about dsg boxes. Is it just the love in that motor journos seem to have with VW, or am I just doing it wrong?

Franco Cozzo · 25-01-2012, 10:50 PM

I think the VW vans we're converting to police brawlers at work have one of these DSG gearboxes, it takes no less than 2 seconds to go into R from D, you select R, the car will free rev like its in neutral then pop into reverse.

I think the latest Mercedes Sprinter is similar, or a CVT transmission and it takes a similar amount of time to go from R to D, plus it feels laggy and very slow to respond compared to the older model's traditional slushbox.

falconnut · 25-01-2012, 10:53 PM

Yikes, glad i got my old reliable 4 speed slushbox, that 2 second lag sounds scary.

**Mechan1k** · 25-01-2012, 11:30 PM

Don't worry ... B-series 4-speed autos come standard with the 2 second lag from R to D .... the AU was much better in that department (and better again with a rebuilt/strengthened BTR).

Mate of mine decided on the 6-speed manual for his Mk V Golf TDi .... as he was not a fan of the DSG after a test drive.

mik · 26-01-2012, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

I drive hire cars regularly in my work. I have plenty of experience with Audi and VW dsg boxes and have never liked them much. I put it down to that's what they are like in that family. I have just driven 300 km today in a brand new Focus. The car is great, but again the tranny is horrid.

Anything other than smooth, constant throttle completely confuses the micro chips out of it. This plus a reluctance to start moving sometimes. The VW and Audi were similar. On one hill turning right I momentarily lifted off then tried to accelerate, and it took a good 2 seconds to even start moving. It would have been dangerous if a car was coming.

My old 4 speed auto 2003 camry 4 cylinder is much more predictable and far smoother. I understand the efficiency gains, but I don't think I could live with the apparent lack of intuition of the tranny. I have never heard any negative comments about dsg boxes. Is it just the love in that motor journos seem to have with VW, or am I just doing it wrong?

it does`nt take much looking to find plenty of complaints for them, the volksy ones get a good share of complaints too.

Werd. · 26-01-2012, 05:20 PM

It's not even just the DSGs, the 6 speed auto in the Tiguan is awful, the other day I planned to give it a bit to slip infront of a falcon that was approaching from the right at a roundabout, foot down, nothing happened for at least 2 seconds, made me look like a bit of a rude idiot with him having to slow down.

falconnut · 26-01-2012, 05:27 PM

I get the couple of seconds lag between r and d but not in any of the forward gears like these dsg boxes.

Mackspower · 26-01-2012, 05:56 PM

Got a Ford Mondeo Titanium hatch with a dual clutch auto . . . gearbox lags like hell. Can be really dangerous when merging from a standstill.

On the move they're beautiful. I click it into Sports mode now when throttle responsiveness is critical.

I would happily sacrifice the some of the fantastic fuel economy achieved by this first gear/launch control madness to get the responsiveness. Hope Ford take to heart the Customer focus group feedback.

Nic85 · 26-01-2012, 06:22 PM

I've said it on here before. This kind of behaviour is concomitant with all dual clutch transmissions. You think about the way they work inside. The clutches still have to "slip" to engage the gears, so stand still starting will always be jerky and laggy as a computer is controlling the clutch slip.

I've personally driven 4 different cars with dual clutch transmissions. A Ralliart Lancer, Lancer Evo X MR, VW Golf GTi and VW Passat TDi. All of them were exactly how the OP described them.

Mackspower · 27-01-2012, 10:02 AM

I think the point is dual-clutch boxes can certainly be improved upon. The simple example I gave of switching between full-auto and sports mode makes a significant difference to the engagement speed and responsiveness to throttle input.

Manufacturers need to remap engine management and gearbox control to solve the launch problem . . . it really is dangerous and importantly - avoidable.

Rodp · 27-01-2012, 11:20 AM

Your VW DSG experience is complete opposite to mine.

I still rate the box in my R32 as the best I'd ever owned by far - you just had to learn how to use it effectively. If you went from whoa to go on the pedal, you had to give it ~0.5 seconds for it to grab the gear otherwise you'd jerk forward - much the same as my ZF F6. For gear changes, it always knew what gear I wanted after it learned my habits.

Perhaps the Focus also requires a period of learning your driving habits for it to be running optimally..? Certainly not something that'll happen in a hire car.

falconnut · 27-01-2012, 11:56 AM

Yikes i would rather drive a 6speed manual box than have these slippy DSG.