Wierd AU oddity

[Bushbasher]

A lot of us know about the weird brake light/cruise control oddity with AUs'. well ok, for those that don't, - if one of your brake light globes dies then your cruise control will cease to function, the icon on the dash will light up but it won't maintain a set speed when you hit the steering wheel button, strange but true.

Today I think I discovered a new one, well, the wife did, and kept telling me for weeks what she thought it was but I couldn't see how one could have anything to do with the other. So... For a couple of months now the wagons airbag light on the dash has been intermittently coming on and flashing error 32. Coincidentally, when either I or the wife jumped in the drivers seat and slid it back or forth to adjust it sometimes the light went out. I put it down to the another of those famous AU quirks, that being the sometimes dicky pre-tensioner connection under the seat. Anyway, at about the same time we had the full AC system replaced in the wagon, compressor, accumulator, filters, the lot and after that the fuel economy went away so I put it down to the new AC as it threw an error code saying something like "draw out of range" when I changed the oxygen sensor and had the gas tuned up and a diagnostic done. Anyway, the missus said that when the airbag light was off the fuel economy was ok but every time it came on it used more gas. So the other day I finally changed the clock spring on the off chance that it was this that was causing the airbag error and not the dicky connection under the seat, and what do you know, the airbag light has not come back on, (so it WAS the clock spring), and the economy has immediately jumped from 430-40km to a tank of LPG to 500km. The only conclusion I can make is that somehow the airbag circuit is tied into the ECU, maybe via the oxygen sensor perhaps, who knows, and, it seems, directly affects the fuel consumption. Strange but true.

Has anyone else ever had this experience or noticed this or is it just me?

Bushbasher

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

A lot of us know about the weird brake light/cruise control oddity with AUs'. well ok, for those that don't, - if one of your brake light globes dies then your cruise control will cease to function, the icon on the dash will light up but it won't maintain a set speed when you hit the steering wheel button, strange but true.

Explain this again in simple English. All rear lights are working, indicator brake and reverse lights. Cruise control turns on at the instrument binnacle but will not set. ABS light is permanently on and there is no ABS braking.

Cheers Vincenzo

[mik]

Crikey mate , that is pretty weird, this is the problm with modern cars and electronics, we should have stoppd the alleged progress at carbys and points .

[Maka]

Great observational skills Bushbasher & Bushbasher's Wife! A precedent was set when Ford provided us with the famous AU Falcon faulty brakelight / no cruise quirk, so it would'nt suprise me if the airbag circuit is wired with the fuel injection circuit. Does it affect the petrol side of things too? Definately something to take into account when trouble shooting the airbag & fuel injection system's on i6's!

cheers, Maka

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

Explain this again in simple English. All rear lights are working, indicator brake and reverse lights. Cruise control turns on at the instrument binnacle but will not set. ABS light is permanently on and there is no ABS braking.

Cheers Vincenzo

Hey there Vincenzo, Sounds like you have a different issue, either a dud ABS sensor on one of your wheels or your ABS module on the brake proportioning block under the bonnet has died. This is not an uncommon issue with the AU ABS module with traction control. For $250 THIS BLOKE fix it and mod it so it never fails again.

As for the CC oddity, it all has to do with the electrics side of braking circuit. If you think about it, the CC is tied to the braking circuit via the brake pedal switch and the ABS is tied to the circuit via the wheel sensors so I'd guess that if the circuit is broken for any reason, eg. a brake light globe or in your case, a dud sensor, then the CC won't engage as it thinks the brakes aren't working properly. It doesn't know why, just that the system is showing a brake system error. Maybe whoever wrote the software code just put in a fail safe to stop the CC engaging if there was a brake issue without programming in all the variables that might throw an error. Maybe the BCM hardware of the era was unable to handle complex variables but "brake issue = no CC" was do-able. Either way, I'd say that if you fix your ABS problem your CC will come back.


Bushbasher

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by Maka

Great observational skills Bushbasher & Bushbasher's Wife! A precedent was set when Ford provided us with the famous AU Falcon faulty brakelight / no cruise quirk, so it would'nt suprise me if the airbag circuit is wired with the fuel injection circuit. Does it affect the petrol side of things too? Definately something to take into account when trouble shooting the airbag & fuel injection system's on i6's!

cheers, Maka

I don't know if it affects the petrol side of things but as our wagon is factory dual fuel and the factory ECU controls both fuels it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume it would also affect the petrol side as well although it may not be quite so noticeable as petrol is a more efficient fuel so the difference might not be so dramatic.

Bushbasher

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Hey there Vincenzo, Sounds like you have a different issue, either a dud ABS sensor on one of your wheels or your ABS module on the brake proportioning block under the bonnet has died. This is not an uncommon issue with the AU ABS module with traction control. For $250 THIS BLOKE fix it and mod it so it never fails again.

Thanks for that. My XR6 never had TC as an option / fitted. Does that make a difference to what "THIS BLOKE" can do.

As for your other suggestion, you may be right about the sensor. Occasionally I can drive up to 1km before the ABS icon lights up.

Cheers Vincenzo

[Bushbasher]

If you don't have TC then your ABS module will probably be fine. It is only the high series units with TC that have the issue. I'd be finding someone with a diagnostic tool and finding out which ABS sensor has failed and just replace it and your CC will come good.

Cheers
Bushbasher

[b2tf]

Cruise also ceases to work if you replace the tail bulbs with LED's.

[SirHenry]

Had the same thing happen with my S1 Classic.

Every time you pressed the brake light the park lights came on, Cruise control would work with lights off but not with lights on.

Turns out after auto elecy diagnosis to be a faulty brake light. He was saying it seems to be in the manufacture of them it arcs particularly he noticed with the cheaper brands.

You're not alone amigo, I believe you, welcome to A.U.F.O: absolutely unidentifiable ford objects

[Mr Hardware]

What is this
I don't even

Bushbasher, as one of the true long-term AU-faithful good old boys, you sure do find the weird problems. I'm actually kinda impressed, most people would remain ignorant to the correlation.

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you don't have TC then your ABS module will probably be fine. It is only the high series units with TC that have the issue. I'd be finding someone with a diagnostic tool and finding out which ABS sensor has failed and just replace it and your CC will come good.

(L) side F/R brake sensors are coming up as the problem so both are on order. Thanks for the advice.

Cheers Vincenzo

[bartsau]

Well had a laugh reading through this thread the other day and sure enough today on the way to and home from work my AU Wagon has developed an airbag warning light...

First 10-15 minutes nothing then it starts flashing really really slowly and then it stays on solid.

Has got me buggered. Will get it checked out for fault codes tomorrow.

Rhys

[Vincenzo]

Bushbasher, well I dropped the XR off this morning for the sensors to be fitted.

All went well, with the ABS light now disappeared and the return of ABS braking. Having said that I have a personal preference for Cadence Braking but you do what you have to.

Unfortunately, the Cruise Control issue is still present. Mr Mechanic tried three different brake switches etc but all to no avail. His diagnostic computer does not have the software for tracking CC issues. It still turns on and lights up the dash but cannot be set by the buttons.



Cheers Vincenzo

[Bushbasher]

You don't happen to have LED tail lights in by any chance? If you do, they will register as a fault it the circuit.

If you still have standard globes in then if it was me I'd go buy a pair of tail light/brake light globes and swap them out with whatever you have in there now. You'd be surprised how often a brake light filament will break and drop onto the tail light filament and keep working because it's earthed out, but the brake light circuit still registers a circuit fault and so the CC will still not engage. If it still won't work after that then I'm at a bit of a loss, maybe you have an exposed wire somewhere that's earthing the circuit, if that's the case it might be a bit of a saga to track it down.

Bushbasher

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

You don't happen to have LED tail lights in by any chance? If you do, they will register as a fault it the circuit.

No mate, car is completely stock body wise.

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you still have standard globes in then if it was me I'd go buy a pair of tail light/brake light globes and swap them out with whatever you have in there now. You'd be surprised how often a brake light filament will break and drop onto the tail light filament and keep working because it's earthed out, but the brake light circuit still registers a circuit fault and so the CC will still not engage.

Ok, will give that a try but all rear lights (brake - turn - reverse) are all working.

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If it still won't work after that then I'm at a bit of a loss, maybe you have an exposed wire somewhere that's earthing the circuit, if that's the case it might be a bit of a saga to track it down.

Do you think it would be worth going to Ford to see if their computers can track it down? Also, thanks for taking the time to answer and try to help out.



Cheers Vincenzo (msg 500 - wahoo)

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by bartsau

Well had a laugh reading through this thread the other day and sure enough today on the way to and home from work my AU Wagon has developed an airbag warning light...

First 10-15 minutes nothing then it starts flashing really really slowly and then it stays on solid.

Has got me buggered. Will get it checked out for fault codes tomorrow.

Rhys

Hi Rhys, sorry mate, didn't have time to reply last night. Watch the airbag light flash sequence closely and it'll tell you the error code. Chances are it's code 32 and it'll show that by flashing three times then a pause then flashing twice. Then it'll pause for about 5 seconds and start again. It does this 3 times then stays on permanently. Code 32 means there's a circuit break on the drivers side which can either be a loose connection under your drivers seat where the pre-tensioner plugs in or more likely the clock spring under the steering wheel. Wiggle the plug under the seat and see if the light goes away, if it doesn't then it'll be the clock spring most likely. It's easy enough to change if you have the right bit to get the airbag off of the wheel.


Bushbasher

[bartsau]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Hi Rhys, sorry mate, didn't have time to reply last night. Watch the airbag light flash sequence closely and it'll tell you the error code. Chances are it's code 32 and it'll show that by flashing three times then a pause then flashing twice. Then it'll pause for about 5 seconds and start again. It does this 3 times then stays on permanently. Code 32 means there's a circuit break on the drivers side which can either be a loose connection under your drivers seat where the pre-tensioner plugs in or more likely the clock spring under the steering wheel. Wiggle the plug under the seat and see if the light goes away, if it doesn't then it'll be the clock spring most likely. It's easy enough to change if you have the right bit to get the airbag off of the wheel.


Bushbasher

Thanks loads for the reply. Pretty sure that sequence is just about spot on! Did it again this morning but not this evening. I suspect you could be right. I have been meaning to change my clock spring as I put the wrong one on the steering column I put in doing my fairlane conversion as the current one doesn't have cruise control. Will check wiring under the seat first as I moved it whilst cleaning it the other day...

If I find anything ill post up what it is.

Cheers,
Rhys

[Bushbasher]

Hey Vincenzo, did you change the brake light globes and did it work?

Bushbasher

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Hey Vincenzo, did you change the brake light globes and did it work?

No mate not yet, I've been running to and from the hospital visiting specialists but tomorrow or Thursday I should be able to get it done and report back. Thanks for caring.

Cheers Vincenzo

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Hey Vincenzo, did you change the brake light globes and did it work?

Hi Bushie - ok, I've changed the bulbs for the brakes, indicators and reverse lights and it made no difference.

The guy where I bought them came up with a suggestion - Cruise Control brake pressure switch which apparently hides somewhere under the bonnet in or near the firewall. Does this sound plausible?


Cheers Vincenzo

[Bushbasher]

That was a bit OTT,lol, just the brake light globes need to be changed. If it's a pressure switch and not the brake light switch it would have to be hanging off of the master cylinder. If not, you're back to the ABS module.

Bushbasher

[Vincenzo]

I recently contacted the local Ford dealer looking for the elusive Cruise Control brake pressure switch. They got back to me today saying the part is no longer available unless you buy the complete Cruise Control system for lots of money.

So, does anyone have any suggestions.


Cheers Vincenzo

[Evgeni]

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

I recently contacted the local Ford dealer looking for the elusive Cruise Control brake pressure switch. They got back to me today saying the part is no longer available unless you buy the complete Cruise Control system for lots of money.

So, does anyone have any suggestions.


Cheers Vincenzo

http://compare.ebay.com.au/like/4002...PriceItemTypes

Is this what you are after?

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Evgeni

http://compare.ebay.com.au/like/4002...PriceItemTypes

Is this what you are after?

No, but thanks anyway. That's the one under the brake pedal. The one I am looking for resides under the bonnet on the firewall beside the brake booster.

Cruise Control Brake Pressure Switch


Cheers Vincenzo

[Bushbasher]

The only thing you can do now then is go to a wrecking yard and track one down.

Bushbasher