VFacts Jan 2012 Falcon 950 sales!!!!!!!!! - Page 10

1TUFFUTE · 10-02-2012, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

so people didn't buy xr8 sedans and utes because they knew down the track there was a better engine coming.??

i thought 5.4 wasn't euro 4 compliant. i'm sure your reason is better though.

thats exactly what happened...combined with the fact there are more holden sheep out there then ford sheep. And if they bought the holden v8over the 5.4 because it was simply a better engine and not the overall package....what happened with the new supercharged 5.0???? It runs rings around the crappy old tech chevy motor...but that crap still sells....

burnz · 10-02-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Last year, Holden sold over 11,000 V8s and since they come from low cost Mexico,
the engines are near the same cost as the SIDI V6 engines to procure so lotsa profit for Holden.

Holden sells more V8s because their fans want them, not because they don't have a turbo six..
If the I-6T was discontinued tomorrow and replaced by NA Coyote V8, there's no guarantee
that those combined V8 sales would be higher than current I-6T sales... but we will never know for sure..

the engine's come from michigan' not mexico. at $usd..

jpd80 · 10-02-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

the engine's come from michigan' not mexico. at $usd..

The 6.0 V8 is also made in Mexico, Holden has been sourcing from there for years...
The gist is that the US dollar has devalued significantly, so the cost of sourcing those engines has been cheaper for a while now..

Quote:

LINK
Reuss said it was a "non issue", and pointed out that what's good for Holden is good for GM. "It's still an American company," he told the Carsales Network. "The dividends that come out of Holden come back to the home country, America, and then America gives the money back locally."

For the record, the only significant PPV parts made in America are the police-grade Goodyear tyres -- and the six-speed auto transmission. The 6.0 V8 is made in Mexico but paid for in US dollars.

burnz · 10-02-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The 6.0 V8 is also made in Mexico, Holden has been sourcing from there for years...
The gist is that the US dollar has devalued significantly, so the cost of sourcing those engines has been cheaper for a while now..

rubbish!! flint michigan, only..cant be bought from mexico!!

jpd80 · 10-02-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

rubbish!! flint michigan, only..cant be bought from mexico!!

Well Burnz, you better send a not off to the media because every link I find says Mexico unless sourcing was changed in the last few years...

I remember there was a change when AFM came out, was this engine then sourced from elsewhere, Michigan?

jpd80 · 10-02-2012, 05:45 PM

In any case, just sayin' that those 11,000 odd V8 sales are quite lucrative for Holden.....Ford should be so lucky with I-6T...

burnz · 10-02-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well Burnz, you better send a not off to the media because every link I find says Mexico unless sourcing was changed in the last few years...

I remember there was a change when AFM came out, was this engine then sourced from elsewhere, Michigan?

mexico cannot export period, all crates come from "flint" michigan no if no buts.

not even holden can source from mexico even if they were giving them for free..

you must have friends who have genIII, gen IV engines?? even check the car yards

all start with VF serials (flint create exports)

burnz · 10-02-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

In any case, just sayin' that those 11,000 odd V8 sales are quite lucrative for Holden.....Ford should be so lucky with I-6T...

i have no idea of the breakup of V6 verses V8,

i said it before i think ford would pickup a few sales if they had a V8 lineage..

XR8, G8, G8E, XR8 ute (tray/styleside)

jpd80 · 10-02-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

i have no idea of the breakup of V6 verses V8,

i said it before i think ford would pickup a few sales if they had a V8 lineage..

XR8, G8, G8E, XR8 ute (tray/styleside)

We'll never know....a good 5.0 sitting there but not being used.

**Polyal** · 10-02-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

We'll never know....a good 5.0 sitting there but not being used.

It pains me so much. The best "stock" Ford V8 ever and we get no love

burnz · 10-02-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

We'll never know....a good 5.0 sitting there but not being used.

forgot to add the G8E/S (low boost) for that luxo feeling..

i think their are serous sales to be made, "if" they worked it right..

imean fpv play with hsv...
what have they got for calais, caprice, ss variants? nothing!! (i dont want a turbo 6) just an N/A eight.

Spammy · 10-02-2012, 08:26 PM

Maybe Ford should fit LS3 V8 donks in the Falcon - they are dirt cheap, go like stink and bogans love them.

burnz · 10-02-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spammy

Maybe Ford should fit LS3 V8 donks in the Falcon - they are dirt cheap, go like stink and bogans love them.

i would love an LS3 become standard in the commo range...ss, calais, caprice...

LSA in the hsv's

Joe5619 · 10-02-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

imean fpv play with hsv...
what have they got for calais, caprice, ss variants? nothing!! (i dont want a turbo 6) just an N/A eight.

And what does Holden have for XR6T, GE6T & F6?? Nothing, does this mean they have to run out & copy Ford??

It works both way!!

burnz · 10-02-2012, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And what does Holden have for XR6T, GE6T & F6?? Nothing, does this mean they have to run out & copy Ford??

It works both way!!

yeah it's so hard to put a coyote in the chassis aye..
FPV has done r&d, epa, ncap...
put a 1000 units out their, and they will sell, slow no harm, sell fast with back orders then have a winner..

jpd80 · 10-02-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

forgot to add the G8E/S (low boost) for that luxo feeling..

i think their are serous sales to be made, "if" they worked it right..

imean fpv play with hsv...
what have they got for calais, caprice, ss variants? nothing!! (i dont want a turbo 6) just an N/A eight.

You know I look at Jaguar XF and i know Falcon isn't really in that league but there no harm in emulating that brand with I-6T, NA 5.0 V8 and GS S/C V8.

Bossxr8 · 10-02-2012, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Last time I checked your a 380 fan..

You mean there is actually a 380 fan. Now I have heard everything

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

yeah it's so hard to put a coyote in the chassis aye..
FPV has done r&d, epa, ncap...
put a 1000 units out their, and they will sell, slow no harm, sell fast with back orders then have a winner..

The Coyote would require a whole new round of R&D as the engines are not the same. All emissions testing would have to be re-done, as would a whole round of calibration and testing. You can't just use the work done on a different engine version and pass it off as compatible with another type. It doesn't work that way.

About the only thing they could take out of the Miami version for Coyote would be most of the fitment engineering work done to fit Miami in the engine bay. But it would still require a new intake system as the Coyote has a front mounted throttle body, whereas Miami has it at the side rear.

FPV were working on a new inlet manifold for Coyote before it was put on hold, similar to the Boss 5.4 versions to move the throttle body to the side, but from all reports it didn't work very well. I'd assume because the Coyote was developed with a front mounted throttle moving it to the side caused all sorts of air distribution problems.

JPFS1 · 10-02-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

FPV has done r&d, epa, ncap...

1 out of 3 you got right to a degree.

z80 · 11-02-2012, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Last time I checked you're a 380 fan..

Last time I checked I had a 2011 Mercedes AMG in the driveway mate.

I always had a policy of buying Australian all my life, but not this time....

I don't buy cars with red hand painted rear calipers or push rod engines any more.....

**Polyal** · 11-02-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

1 out of 3 you got right to a degree.

R&D...well block, mounts etc are done...so you would need calibartion.

EPA - yeah ok this would hurt, but do it ASAP and you have a longer term to get ROI.

NCAP - I would argue that a Miami would be worst case to a coyote...stuff all in it and it would depend on clearances which should favor the later.

Joe5619 · 11-02-2012, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

yeah it's so hard to put a coyote in the chassis aye..
FPV has done r&d, epa, ncap...
put a 1000 units out their, and they will sell, slow no harm, sell fast with back orders then have a winner..

You didn't answer my question, you just went back to your own one. Which is the same as my point, but in reverse.

Just becuse Holden have something does not mean Ford as to have the same thing..

Falcon didn't even sale 100 units in Jan (even with a V8) & you think they are going to sell 1000 fast? Stop dreaming!!

jpd80 · 11-02-2012, 09:39 AM

Proof positive comes in the form of 2012 plated SS Commodores available at $42,990 drive away,
Holden still have a +$6,000 margin over their SV6 at $36,990 so they will still make money on them.

How desperate is Ford to invest in a NA 5.0 to offer it at those prices, is it even worth the effort?

Could FPV built NA engines and supply them cheaper than US crate engines?

johnydep · 11-02-2012, 10:34 AM

It's not looking good for Holden in Adelaide at the moment.

Just spoke to a mate that transports vehicles, the company he is with usually move 550 Holden's per month for shipment to Melbourne, they're down to 350.

This is causing work shortage for the company, and goes down the line. He's now moving to Perth, after having researched and secured a job. Moving next week.

I'd like to say buy Australian, but they don't make it easy.

Watch the figures for February, will be a shocker.

burnz · 11-02-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You didn't answer my question, you just went back to your own one. Which is the same as my point, but in reverse.

Just becuse Holden have something does not mean Ford as to have the same thing..

Falcon didn't even sale 100 units in Jan (even with a V8) & you think they are going to sell 1000 fast? Stop dreaming!!

so your saying people wont buy a V8 ford? it's coverd with a 6T...

calais sales are mostly V8 around 75%
caprice sales 90% V8...
ss sales speak for them self..
as well as the ute's possably 60% V8..

what was the sales of the BA/BF units of the V8 verses I6??
you beleive this wont change with a new V8...
and not just XR8 but G8 and G8E offer the luxo version with a V8..

jpd80 · 11-02-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

It's not looking good for Holden in Adelaide at the moment.

Just spoke to a mate that transports vehicles, the company he is with usually move 550 Holden's per month for shipment to Melbourne, they're down to 350.

This is causing work shortage for the company, and goes down the line. He's now moving to Perth, after having researched and secured a job. Moving next week.

Wow, sad to hear that, hope you friend finds more work in the West...

Quote:

I'd like to say buy Australian, but they don't make it easy.

Watch the figures for February, will be a shocker.

Hence the steep discounting going on at Holden and Ford......

johnydep · 11-02-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Local hero no longer top dog in the Holden showroom as Australian-made cars continue their sales slide.

http://brisbanetimes.drive.com.au/mo...202-1qtzp.html

Could the Falcon model naming have anything to do with the sales drop?

Ford spent many years building up recognition of a models luxury level, with names:
Falcon -with sub levels; XT, XR, GS, GT, etc.
Fairmont, Fairmont Ghia
Fairlane, Fairlane Ghia
LTD, LTD Ghia

In years gone by people were proud to say I own a "Falcon", a "Fairmont", I've got a "Ghia".

Now its, I have a Falcon -
XT, G6, G6E, G6E Turbo, XR6, XR6 Turbo

Everyone recognised the luxury levels by the name. Now, unless your a Ford die hard, not many people would be able to tell you which is the premium model.

Even Holden are starting to confuse their model range, however, at least they still have some sort of flow in their range -
Commodore with sub levels
Calais
Caprice

Could the lack of model identification be causing some confusion with Ford buyers, and adding to the already tough new car market?

martyk54 · 11-02-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

We'll never know....a good 5.0 sitting there but not being used.

Cost? Ford Australia must be working at pretty tight margins at the moment, especially with regards to Falcon. From a marketing perspective they needed the 5.4 to match the SS whether the I6T was faster or not... it didn't. The Boss is just a heavy, lifeless engine... logic suggested XR6T was a much better option in the showroom. Was there ever even a 5.4 FPV that could eclipse the XR6T performance wise?? Only in breaking I'd imagine.

With so many Aussies still obsessed with V8s, has XR6T hurt the brand for Ford?

phillyc · 11-02-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Proof positive comes in the form of 2012 plated SS Commodores available at $42,990 drive away,
Holden still have a +$6,000 margin over their SV6 at $36,990 so they will still make money on them.

How desperate is Ford to invest in a NA 5.0 to offer it at those prices, is it even worth the effort?

Could FPV built NA engines and supply them cheaper than US crate engines?

The imported GM Holden V8 allegedly costs about the same as the Australian assembled SIDI V6 to fit in their Commodore.

At about 1,000 sales per month across all sedan, wagon, ute Commodore derivatives and $6k extra asking price, it is the V8 which is keeping the model afloat. It's an extra $6M a month in revenue for essentially nothing. Meaning breakeven becomes $72M loss without V8 to GMH.

I think if Ford fitted the 5.0L Coyote to Falcon, an easy 250/month sales across sedan and ute would follow. There has been many on here who have reluctantly bought an SS because of no XR8 being available. I'm sure then that many of the 250/month sales would return and in some way be 'conquest' sales. Based on this sales rate and a similar profit level, it would add $18M to the bottom line over a year.

PS Here is a link to buyfordracing which has the Coyote for $5899.
http://www.buyfordracing.com/product...TE-ENGINE.html
So if a 3rd part company can sell them for that, what price can Ford make them?!

jpd80 · 11-02-2012, 12:46 PM

Edit,
Unlike the Boss 5.4 that was built in AUS by FPV, the Coyote is a main stream production engine that is way lighter,
a lot cheaper, has similar power and better fuel economy. it's an engine that could find a home in more cars than XR8
because it's available in at least two power levels and doesn't require a bonnet bulge to make the engine fit.

Tinged with the above, I sometimes wonder if the calls for a NA V8 come genuine buyers or merely from
people who only intend buying them when they are second hand and way cheaper...

However, ther must be some genuine buyers out there and what ever Ford does, must not
take away from the expected sales of FPV so that means non aligned products and that
could be the key for another affordable XR8 or maybe a G8E, G6ET at $60K isn't doing buyers any favors....

Dr Smith · 11-02-2012, 01:06 PM

Just wondering, could any Coyote match the mid range acceleration of the I6T and if it can, would it be more thirsty, because I know it would at least sound better?