Standing Up For Enthusiats!!

[prydey]

i've seen in the impound yard here in adelaide. its not full of cars that have had a lot of money spent on them. in fact, i'd be surprised if they'd had any money spent on them. they are all cars that deserve to be in there and not on the road. there may be the odd exception from time to time but they are the exception, not the rule.

these things are always a bit of a beat up it you ask me. 99% of the time it has nothing to do with the car, but the actions of the nut behind the wheel, whether it be poor behaviour on the roads, or modifying his or her mode of transport.

you play you pay. its pretty simple. if you drove a car that appeared as it did when it left the factory, and drove it in a manner that is acceptable i'd be very surprised if you came under any sort of scrutiny. once you go outside those things, you start to draw attention to yourself.

if you want to fit blue lights to your car, or anything else that contravenes a law, then you must also accept the consequences.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by prydey

i've seen in the impound yard here in adelaide. its not full of cars that have had a lot of money spent on them. in fact, i'd be surprised if they'd had any money spent on them. they are all cars that deserve to be in there and not on the road. there may be the odd exception from time to time but they are the exception, not the rule.

these things are always a bit of a beat up it you ask me. 99% of the time it has nothing to do with the car, but the actions of the nut behind the wheel, whether it be poor behaviour on the roads, or modifying his or her mode of transport.

you play you pay. its pretty simple. if you drove a car that appeared as it did when it left the factory, and drove it in a manner that is acceptable i'd be very surprised if you came under any sort of scrutiny. once you go outside those things, you start to draw attention to yourself.

if you want to fit blue lights to your car, or anything else that contravenes a law, then you must also accept the consequences.

1. 99% (in Darwin) it appears the police don't even know what they're looking for, other than the usual "bald tyres"... And that's pretty much it... -_-
E.g, (and i witnessed this) One officer thought a rapid coloured XR6T, lowered with black wheels, thought it just a standard falcon, despite the quite obvious chrome aftermarket intercooler in the lower grill.. This kind of ignorance has happened on a few occasions that i've seen.

2. I've already clarified the blue lights on car's subject.

[prydey]

police officers aren't expected to know, and do not need to know the details about every make and model. that is why we have inspection centres. the police only need to suspect something is illegal to put a sticker on your car. if your car doesn't stand out, then 99% of the time, you won't have an issue.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by prydey

police officers aren't expected to know, and do not need to know the details about every make and model. that is why we have inspection centres. the police only need to suspect something is illegal to put a sticker on your car. if your car doesn't stand out, then 99% of the time, you won't have an issue.

... ...

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Well if you all just owned smart cars or camrys, you wouldn't get pulled up.

Not standing up for all the older or,as portraid by many smarter car folk
but didnt camry bring out a 200 KW 3 L ???
Ive had my 3 L camry (long time ago) well into the limit that would have seen me in a long vacation in her majesties palace
For a policitally correct ol farts car, gee it shook down many a regular street warrior,picking on a granpa car
If a hoon is classed as someone who can perhaps spin the wheels, over accelorate off the lights, do speeds well past the legal limit on any speed designated road, why cross out a camry
They can do any of the above
Matter of fact so can the 1500 cc VW beetle here
Its not the car or any cars fault,its the peanut behind the wheel who offends,regardless of cars badge or origin
Im all for taking at tuff stance,i mean whats around at the moment is a joke,but is confiscating and crushing cars for offenders who offend twice in 5 years the answer
No its not,maybe perhaps,and im thinking aloud here, first offenders should participate in defensive driving classes or some other form of bettering their driving abilities, then when offending again, maybe get tougher
Its sort of a no chance or forgiveness rule

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by prydey

police officers aren't expected to know, and do not need to know the details about every make and model. that is why we have inspection centres. the police only need to suspect something is illegal to put a sticker on your car. if your car doesn't stand out, then 99% of the time, you won't have an issue.

Sort of not what the thread is about.

Some enthusiasts like their car to stand out, for them its part of being one. Others like to slip under the radar, with a nicely modded car aswell.
But if your a deadset mungbean with something so blatantly obvious that is illegal then for sure they need to have a sticker

I think police should have a knowledge of what is and isnt legal in their particular state, because suspecting something isnt right just doesnt cut it IMO. That said im sure there is a lot they need to know so it would be hard to remember it all.

[Bunyip04]

I believe if they have the powers to be able to defect a car,
they should at LEAST know what they're talking about..

[noflac52]

A part of the new system for modified cars in NSW that are certified is a computer print out. The police will refer to them if you are pulled over and if the car complies with what is on the certificate you will be ok. The police won't need to have a high level of knowledge regarding mods.

[Neale]

Originally Posted by noflac52

In support of enthusiasts in NSW there is a growing movement being driven by the Combined Motor Clubs a body that many car clubs are affiliated with enabling enthusiasts to speak with one voice and a large power base when dealing with politicians and bureaucrats.
This approach is already having an effect here with a conference last Feb to establish an understanding of what both the authorities and enthusiasts require going into the future. There will be another conference in Feb 2013 for ongoing discussion for the years ahead. We are at last getting sensible regulations and guidelines for modified vehicles. This not only covers hotrods and modified street machines but a whole range of vehicles including suvs, four wheel drives, individually constructed vehicles, vintage and historic vehicles.

These are the true enthusiasts and we desperately need to differentiate ourselves from the hoon element that masquerade as enthusiasts, for the survival of our sport / hobby / lifestyle into the future.
The good work mentioned above can easily be undone by this element if we are complacent.

I have seen many posts on this forum alone by the hoon element that supports this stupidity and blame the old people and pollies for the new laws that are introduced and I have tried to let them know that they are the root cause of the harsh laws not anyone else, because if they did not do the burnout thing in suburban streets and roadrace around the suburbs no one would notice their activities ( to put it simply ).

I am a hardcore enthusiast and the modified vehicle scene is where I am happiest but I would no more think of doing a burnout in suburbia than jump off a tall building and fly. They are equally stupid!!!

With this in mind my suggestion is two fold.

I think it would be a good thing at our car shows if we set up a national program and actually had a tent purely for the responsible use of vehicles on the road and publicly denounced any socially unacceptable behaviour with in our sport. In todays world its not so much about what you do its more about what you are seen to be doing.
At the same time we should be promoting our charitable activities more publicly. Blowing our own trumpet so to speak. It would be very interesting to know exactly how much money the car enthusiast community donate to charity each year, and not having national figures is a major oversight on our part to help present our case to authorities as I am sure it would be a very substantial amount.
We need to become more socially acceptable as portrayed by the media and if we push this side of things public opinion can be changed so that they realise that there are two types of people who have a major interest in the automobile. The true enthusiast and the rest who are not affiliated but hangers on who think its kool to look like us but in fact we aren't keen on them either.

Just as a matter of interest some stats;
NSW. speeding and alcohol were the two highest factors attributed to fatal accidents in 2010 making up more than 50%
modified vehicles attributed around .6% in the same year and this is an average amount for most years.
I can't find stats for hooning fatalities anywhere but it would be an interesting one considering the amount of attention it is getting atm.

Great point, could not have said it better myself. If anyone is interested in making our voice herd in the right way, we should get behind the ACMC.

This is a follow up to the Motoring Enthusiast Conference that was held at Eastern Creek to address the proposed changes to modified cars. Keep in mind it is not a protest. Just a show & shine to get everyone together.





Here is a link to the minutes from the last meeting & the website

http://www.councilofmotorclubs.org.a...nf-Minutes.pdf

http://www.confederationofmotorclubs...ur-future.html

[xisled]

1 problem I see and it is proved in this thread also, is people do not understand why police do certain things. It is made out like police v car person. the basic reason for a defect is to get the car to a professional in this case a mechanic to make sure it is safe to be on the road. If the car is legal the defect can be removed easily.

One thing that needs to happen is no support for anything that is deemed to be hoon behaviour. I see heaps of so called enthusiasts like a video of a car doing a burnout in a surbian street. Yes the enthusiast may not have done the burnout but encouraging this behaviour by liking the video is encouraging people to go do more on the street. If you really want to stamp this out, you need to not support this activity in any way.

[BHDOGS]

very true xisled just like the hooning thread on facebook i always get pics or videos of people doing stupid **** on the street and having people liking it so it shows up its ridiculous people seem to think hooning is hard core its not its the easiest thing in the world to drive like a knob the hard bit is knowing you can drift a corner at 70 easily but not doing it and driving like a normal person

[xisled]

I was reading the comments made on a post by the grunt files on Facebook. Basically this guy from a car club said that he should speak to the club to help fight hooning, the clubs Facebook page was then listed. I had a quick look at this clubs page. 2 post I found, 1 was a wagon driving on a public road with the tailgate open and a guy laying and hanging out of the back of the wagon taking pictures, the second post was with the title ***** the rules and below was a car with sparks flying out and dragging along the ground also on a public road.

Now this group said they encourage tame driving on the street yet they have these 2 post, this is the things I was talking about. They post it on the site but preach they are car enthusiasts. One thing the grunt files need to do is get away from these groups and publicly say this is not accepted.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by xisled

1 problem I see and it is proved in this thread also, is people do not understand why police do certain things. It is made out like police v car person. the basic reason for a defect is to get the car to a professional in this case a mechanic to make sure it is safe to be on the road. If the car is legal the defect can be removed easily.

One thing that needs to happen is no support for anything that is deemed to be hoon behaviour. I see heaps of so called enthusiasts like a video of a car doing a burnout in a surbian street. Yes the enthusiast may not have done the burnout but encouraging this behaviour by liking the video is encouraging people to go do more on the street. If you really want to stamp this out, you need to not support this activity in any way.

The defect can be removed easily,but what about the time you have to take off work and the extra cost for roadworthies ect.........I believe the officer who pulls you over and defects the car should have a excellent knowledge on anything mechanical.Otherwise they should do a breatho license check and send you on your way.

[Bunyip04]

^^^ Spot on...
They aren't qualified mechanics, fair enough for basic snot like bald tyres, lights not working etc.
BUT, anything mechanical related, no..

[xisled]

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

The defect can be removed easily,but what about the time you have to take off work and the extra cost for roadworthies ect.........I believe the officer who pulls you over and defects the car should have a excellent knowledge on anything mechanical.Otherwise they should do a breatho license check and send you on your way.

1 question I have. Have you actually been defected?

I have had a heap of defects and every single item that was defected you did not have to be a mechanic to pick them. Except a pod filter not in a box, most times it's for to low, seat belt not retracting quick enough, hand brake had to many clicks, blown globes and bald tyres.

I don't buy the cops should have mechanical knowledge because it is not needed. If you own a car it should be up to you to keep it roadworthy and not complain when it taken off the road when you have changed the colour of the lights and such.

Here in Vic not all defects need a roadworthy. Just get the items fixed and take it to Vic Roads.

Just think a cop pulled over a car and it had bald tyres, cop let the car go, because he did not have any mechanical knowledge. The car a few days later blows a tyre and this causes the car to hit another car on the other side of the road killing a 4 year old and the mother. After this, a reporter gets hold of this story, I bet everyone on this forum would be saying the cop should have defected the car, got it off the road and this accident would have been avoided. Meanwhile the cop was just following his guidelines.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

^^^ Spot on...
They aren't qualified mechanics, fair enough for basic snot like bald tyres, lights not working etc.
BUT, anything mechanical related, no..

Well they are not pharmacists either so they should not do drug raids.
And they are not armourers so they can't tell an AK47 from a stick.
And they are fashionistas so they can't tell a bikie patch from a t-shirt.
And they aren't.........

Are you a motor mechanic? If not then what makes you think that you know more than a copper on patrol?

It is not an "us vs them" situation unless you make it that way......

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well they are not pharmacists either so they should not do drug raids.
And they are not armourers so they can't tell an AK47 from a stick.
And they are fashionistas so they can't tell a bikie patch from a t-shirt.
And they aren't.........

Are you a motor mechanic? If not then what makes you think that you know more than a copper on patrol?

It is not an "us vs them" situation unless you make it that way......

Bit extreme. .
But point taken.. Although, that's not quite my point...

Here is some rules i've found from VIC roads for 2011 regarding
modifications,

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...orvehicles.pdf

What i'm trying to say is, unless they know these rules to begin with
(and this is just an example) they shouldn't have to authority to defect you, if it's part of their job to do it, they should know it. I'm not allowed to be qualified to drive HC or MC veh's in my job without knowing eveything there is to know about the combo and the laws which pertain to us, why should they be able to hand out defects without full knowledge of what they should, being part of their job.

ALSO, i'm not saying every police officer should know, BUT, the
whichever branch in the respective department of the police force
that deals with these things, should be the only one's that can issue them.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by xisled

1 question I have. Have you actually been defected?

I have had a heap of defects and every single item that was defected you did not have to be a mechanic to pick them. Except a pod filter not in a box, most times it's for to low, seat belt not retracting quick enough, hand brake had to many clicks, blown globes and bald tyres.

I don't buy the cops should have mechanical knowledge because it is not needed. If you own a car it should be up to you to keep it roadworthy and not complain when it taken off the road when you have changed the colour of the lights and such.

Here in Vic not all defects need a roadworthy. Just get the items fixed and take it to Vic Roads.

Just think a cop pulled over a car and it had bald tyres, cop let the car go, because he did not have any mechanical knowledge. The car a few days later blows a tyre and this causes the car to hit another car on the other side of the road killing a 4 year old and the mother. After this, a reporter gets hold of this story, I bet everyone on this forum would be saying the cop should have defected the car, got it off the road and this accident would have been avoided. Meanwhile the cop was just following his guidelines.

Really...


To add to what i said in my previous post in response to Flappist,
maybe us enthusiats should make ourselves pretty conversant with
these....

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa.../vsb_ncop.aspx

[noflac52]

Nearly everyone here is whinging about whats wrong with the system atm and thats fair enough because it can be improved and is being improved by some very dedicated enthusiasts although it is avery long road.

My questions to all is what are your suggestions on how it can be improved?

What do you personnally intend to do?

Posting your gripes on here is just being reactive and everyone who is out there having a go on behalf of the enthusiast already knows this better than most.

How about some pro active suggestions.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by xisled

1 question I have. Have you actually been defected?

I have had a heap of defects and every single item that was defected you did not have to be a mechanic to pick them. Except a pod filter not in a box, most times it's for to low, seat belt not retracting quick enough, hand brake had to many clicks, blown globes and bald tyres.

I don't buy the cops should have mechanical knowledge because it is not needed. If you own a car it should be up to you to keep it roadworthy and not complain when it taken off the road when you have changed the colour of the lights and such.

Here in Vic not all defects need a roadworthy. Just get the items fixed and take it to Vic Roads.

Just think a cop pulled over a car and it had bald tyres, cop let the car go, because he did not have any mechanical knowledge. The car a few days later blows a tyre and this causes the car to hit another car on the other side of the road killing a 4 year old and the mother. After this, a reporter gets hold of this story, I bet everyone on this forum would be saying the cop should have defected the car, got it off the road and this accident would have been avoided. Meanwhile the cop was just following his guidelines.

You still need to get a roadworthy certificate and lodge it in to Vic roads for a minor,if its a major you have to display the car here in vic.I have had a few defect notices for things that not even my roadworthy tester could explain.
I rekon the police here in Vic do a great job as i have a good friend in the force but even she thinks on similiar lines as myself on some issues.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

Bit extreme. .
But point taken.. Although, that's not quite my point...

Here is some rules i've found from VIC roads for 2011 regarding
modifications,

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...orvehicles.pdf

What i'm trying to say is, unless they know these rules to begin with
(and this is just an example) they shouldn't have to authority to defect you, if it's part of their job to do it, they should know it. I'm not allowed to be qualified to drive HC or MC veh's in my job without knowing eveything there is to know about the combo and the laws which pertain to us, why should they be able to hand out defects without full knowledge of what they should, being part of their job.

ALSO, i'm not saying every police officer should know, BUT, the
whichever branch in the respective department of the police force
that deals with these things, should be the only one's that can issue them.

Years ago here in Vic when you used to get picked up and the police officer who assumed the car wasnt right sometimes used to radio the T.O.G. a few times they would even jack the car on the side of the road .These guys were tough but knew there stuff, it was a hassle on the night but atleast you didnt have to waste your whole day and money to get a roadworthy for nothing.On a side note years ago we got pulled over for driving high powered vehicles.I was ok as i had an exemption but my mate had a XC with a 6 cylinder.He got done and had to go to court as the police officer pined him for having a V8 on red P's.We laughed so hard that night and i cant even remember how many times we told this gent to count the spark plugs.I can tell you from years of experience things still havent changed.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Nearly everyone here is whinging about whats wrong with the system atm and thats fair enough because it can be improved and is being improved by some very dedicated enthusiasts although it is avery long road.

My questions to all is what are your suggestions on how it can be improved?

What do you personnally intend to do?

Posting your gripes on here is just being reactive and everyone who is out there having a go on behalf of the enthusiast already knows this better than most.

How about some pro active suggestions.

Well, i've donated to the Grunt files campaign, and am watching results
with close interest, keeping up to date etc, that's about all i can do
from here in Darwin.

This thead isn't about posting gripes, it's about discussing the issue
at hand and showing support, take it as you will, but it'd be nice to keep
controversy to a minimum, and we don't want snot posted without
info to back it up.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

You still need to get a roadworthy certificate and lodge it in to Vic roads for a minor,if its a major you have to display the car here in vic.I have had a few defect notices for things that not even my roadworthy tester could explain.
I rekon the police here in Vic do a great job as i have a good friend in the force but even she thinks on similiar lines as myself on some issues.

It is up to the officer if they want you to get a RWC. It's an option on the defect paperwork. Not all defects need RWC. I have had a few you just need to go to Vic roads show the car and items ticked on defect have been fixed.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Nearly everyone here is whinging about whats wrong with the system atm and thats fair enough because it can be improved and is being improved by some very dedicated enthusiasts although it is avery long road.

My questions to all is what are your suggestions on how it can be improved?

What do you personnally intend to do?

Posting your gripes on here is just being reactive and everyone who is out there having a go on behalf of the enthusiast already knows this better than most.

How about some pro active suggestions.

I have posted before on how people and clubs need to stand up and show they are not encouraging hooning. As I said in my other posts, videos and pictures of hooning behaviour is plastered all over the clubs Facebook wall, when I suggest they take these down, I am basically told where to go. IMO these clubs and people are just as bad as the hoons in the pictures and video themselves. Yet they get up and preach anti hoon behaviour yet there is videos pictures of hooning all over the Facebook page.

What is the point in trying to help when there is people who will shot you down in flames, and they are ment to be on the same side.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by xisled

It is up to the officer if they want you to get a RWC. It's an option on the defect paperwork. Not all defects need RWC. I have had a few you just need to go to Vic roads show the car and items ticked on defect have been fixed.

They must of changed it i remember it being if minor you just take your car to a rwc tester and when the items are fixed he ticks it off and you only take the RWC not the car to Vic roads.If its a major you still have to go thru the process as stated above and also show the car to Vic roads.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

On a side note years ago we got pulled over for driving high powered vehicles.I was ok as i had an exemption but my mate had a XC with a 6 cylinder.He got done and had to go to court as the police officer pined him for having a V8 on red P's.We laughed so hard that night and i cant even remember how many times we told this gent to count the spark plugs.I can tell you from years of experience things still havent changed.

There was a bloke in QLD who got defected as the officer proclaimed that HQs didnt come factory with 350 chevs
All relevant paperwork was in the car, but it wasnt mod plated said the police man
It was an original factory 350 chev HQ ,it was made that way
He still got defected
Wasnt even 2 years ago ......

[mad cow]

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

They must of changed it i remember it being if minor you just take your car to a rwc tester and when the items are fixed he ticks it off and you only take the RWC not the car to Vic roads.If its a major you still have to go thru the process as stated above and also show the car to Vic roads.

its been that way for as long as i remember, a minor only needed repairs rectified then taken into vicroads. a major was a full rwc check. and yes i did my apprenticeship at a registered rwc tester.. as for the police, we normally found that if the car wasnt overly unroadworthy the difference in the defect, (major or minor) came down to attitude...

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

There was a bloke in QLD who got defected as the officer proclaimed that HQs didnt come factory with 350 chevs
All relevant paperwork was in the car, but it wasnt mod plated said the police man
It was an original factory 350 chev HQ ,it was made that way
He still got defected
Wasnt even 2 years ago ......

And these are the sort of things that need to be changed..

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

Well, i've donated to the Grunt files campaign, and am watching results
with close interest, keeping up to date etc, that's about all i can do
from here in Darwin.

This thead isn't about posting gripes, it's about discussing the issue
at hand and showing support, take it as you will, but it'd be nice to keep
controversy to a minimum, and we don't want snot posted without
info to back it up.

Its good that you took the time to donate and start this thread but you ask what can you do from here in Darwin.

The grunt files has a lot of suggestions of what we all can do and Darwin is no exception. It has a car culture.

Join a club and put your ideas to them.

If there is opposition to what is suggested get on the club committee. Write to local MPs and let them know that what is being tried in QLD will get solid opposition in NT before they try it on rather than after they launch their campaign. It may be enough to stop them trying it if enough people make a big enough noise about it.

Get a group together and make noise to authorities and media about their lack of sincerity because they carry on about hooning and road safety but on the other hand don't provide or even back the building of facilities or events that will go a long way to curbing the behavior on the streets.

Organise things that show us on our best behaviour in public. Charity events, christmas present runs where every present is donated for under priveledged children, etc. The list goes on and just requires a little imagination.

Originally Posted by xisled

I have posted before on how people and clubs need to stand up and show they are not encouraging hooning. As I said in my other posts, videos and pictures of hooning behaviour is plastered all over the clubs Facebook wall, when I suggest they take these down, I am basically told where to go. IMO these clubs and people are just as bad as the hoons in the pictures and video themselves. Yet they get up and preach anti hoon behaviour yet there is videos pictures of hooning all over the Facebook page.

What is the point in trying to help when there is people who will shot you down in flames, and they are ment to be on the same side.

There is always a point as can be seen by the amount of discussion on the subject and giving up in the face of opposition won't change anything.

If the clubs you approach shoot you down get together with others who share your point of view and start your own club. Its not real hard and then let it be known what ideals your club stands for and you will attract more like minded people and eventually your club will have enough clout that other clubs, social media, social groups etc will pay attention to the message you are sending especially if you are affilliated with one of the national groups promoting safe use of vehicles on public roads.

See above for other ideas!

I'm not picking on anyone here just saying that sometimes its the small things done by the large group that can be effective and getting involved is what its all about if you really want change. These things aren't just for the posters that I quoted they are for everyone to think about but as you posed the questions I have answered them for you.

So you know that I am not just telling others to do this, most of the above I am involved with atm or have been in the past.

Cheers Ken

Merry Christmas to one and all!

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Bunyip04

I believe if they have the powers to be able to defect a car,
they should at LEAST know what they're talking about..

I think it should be made more clearer for owners what is and isn't legal so they can modify accordingly. At the moment you have to trawl through pages and pages of legal jargon just to see what you can and can't do.

I don't expect the police to know this back to front either which actually works more in our favor at the moment anyway.