3 more young lives lost....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

Im sure parents can have a role in this too - for christ sake teach your kids what can happen, drill it into their heads from day one, try avoid having your kids driving the more powerful cars to begin with. I know there will always be ways around this but you never know it could help. The more I meet people the more I realise how many soft parents are out there allowing their kids to do as they please without enforcing any penalties as such - imagine how the kids turn out if they know they can do whatever they want. Not to say this is causing these types of incidents

Spot on, this is the area of greatest influence over kids. Yes the government road safety has responsibilities, so do the police and the schools. The first responsibility rests on the shoulders of the parents to educate their child. If they can not handle that responsibility and accept it, they should not breed.

Sounds hard yes, but I see so many examples of parents failing their children and the community every day, it gets frustrating sometimes. You normally can spot the parents guilty of this, they are the ones that blame the community, government, police and schools whilst claiming how their child was "such a good boy" after crashing his car at 160 km/h, bashing and killing someone or being resuscitated after a drug overdose.

[Rastus]

Sadly, we'll see the Police/Gov calling for the banning of "high performance" cars before they start to enforce the laws already in place.
All the power restiction laws under the sun will not do any good, if the police don't enforce them in the first place. Seems to me that a 1/4 of the P plater's getting around my area are driving a vehicle that would be on the resticted list.
Surely every one of them hasn't got the special dispensation needed to drive them, ie: work car or "only" family car available.
A variation to this is? How many kids, adults for that matter do you see riding push bikes around with no helmets? Heaps! But the police would have better things to do I guess. All this drivel about lives saved, yet the simplest of things aren't looked at.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

Im sure parents can have a role in this too - for christ sake teach your kids what can happen, drill it into their heads from day one, try avoid having your kids driving the more powerful cars to begin with. I know there will always be ways around this but you never know it could help. The more I meet people the more I realise how many soft parents are out there allowing their kids to do as they please without enforcing any penalties as such - imagine how the kids turn out if they know they can do whatever they want. Not to say this is causing these types of incidents

The problem now days is that parents CAN'T enforce anything on their children, they know their rights, and they can't be disciplined...granted some parents still do, however, they are few and far between. Whilst most parents try to bring their children up with good values, etc., it seems that the 'litigation age' is causing some severe ramifications to the result of the young people today - you can't say this, you can't mark in red pen, it's aggressive. Kids can be educated by their parents, but when all the role models that we have, football players, cricketing stars, and the like, are all being pinged for doing the same things, mobile phones while driving, drink driving, etc...we're not really teaching them anything are we??

[elvisidal]

my 6 year old nephew told me I was stupid for getting a car that goes too fast and hurts people

Maybe with time there'll be a whole generation of kids who don't want to go fast?

[charlie200]

It seems that everyone is concluding that the car was at excessive speed but i dont see that written anywhere in the story.

[JC260]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Nah, they're on a similar system as Victoria.

One must ask the question then, why aren't these laws being enforced?

No if's, but's or maybe's... WHY aren't these laws being enforced? Is it lack of policing? Not enough police on the roads? The government not backing up it's own policy?
This is something I genuinely don't understand.

I don't fully understand the P-plate restrictions (they came in long after i got my full licence) and how they work, but how are these kids still getting into this type of vehicle in the first place?

Alot of it does seem come down to attitude - acknowledging and understanding the risks involved with driving a vehicle, performance or otherwise.
Maybe we need to find a new way for this message to sink in?

[GT69]

I don't really know what i can say to add to this thread/topic at all, its been said time and time again, people just DON'T get it. My mother always said its not the car, its the nut behind the wheel. I'm still convinced that is accurate. Peer pressure was never an issue for me, maybe I was just special, we all did stupid things in our youth, I went out racing as well, illegally yes, but as safe as we (normal citizens) could possibly make it, out of town on a deserted road.

The message will never EVER sink in, as in geckoGTs thread, the woman involved wasn't necessarily a 'hoon' driver, but her actions caused the death of a completely innocent people, and all for what? to not have to stop at a red light. Self important BS that the current world (not just gen y) have an issue with.

I talk at length with my lovely girlfriend (Sezzy) about all these things, topics like, its not normally the car enthusiasts issue as they tend to have alot better understanding of what they are doing and what their driving. Not meaning their better drivers, but tend to well, have more pride in their vehicle, an understanding of physics and dynamics and how cars handle. This knowledge only comes from working on vehicles, having a passion for vehicles and a deeper understanding of the impact due to lack of care and attention.

Is showing the youth (or everyone?) the results of these horrible things graphically and in your face type messages the answer to the question? I don't no. I do no however that while at tech for my apprenticeship (painting and decorating) and i believe other trades were the same, we were show what happens when you screw up with everything from bad scaffolding, to paint injections and various other hazards, seeing an arm cut open to try and flash out an enamel paint injection isn't very nice, and though i didn't go batty and start climbing the walls, I was left with a greater respect for the equipment.

As stated in the government hoon response thread, the issues are so deeply ingrained that a full overhaul (and not just of the legal system) but right down to parenting, education, respect, legal and moral, rights and responsibilities. The issues is not JUST speed, its not JUST talking on your mobile phone. These are JUST surface issues, the question is (and it hang in my mind often while out driving) WHY do people believe its there god damn right to do 90 in an 80 zone, talk on a mobile phone, tailgate, run reds or lock up the breaks and abuse the person in front for daring to stop, people (you, me and your next door neighbor) are merely ants, none more or less important than the other, safety is OUR responsibility.

Then you read fantastic stories about mums getting their 5 year old children drunk.....because he 'likes his alcohol' seriously.....some people suffer from not being punched enough....but its fine, that kid will grow up getting away with everything because his mother was a pathetic oxygen thief so he cant be blame.

We have a limp-wristed government body who don't give a rats about your bloody safety, whose only agenda is to get in again next election, an opposition whose only job in life is to whinge about everything said currently elected party are doing (or not doing) an education system that's going down the toilet, people are paid to sit on their *** and breed future generations so they can pass on their own BS ideals.

Are humans just programmed to self destruct? Are we so hell bent on killing each other and destroying everything we know and love because of......god alone knows what.

ARGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

/end rant

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by GT69

I don't really know what i can say to add to this thread/topic at all, its been said time and time again, people just DON'T get it. My mother always said its not the car, its the nut behind the wheel. I'm still convinced that is accurate. Peer pressure was never an issue for me, maybe I was just special, we all did stupid things in our youth, I went out racing as well, illegally yes, but as safe as we (normal citizens) could possibly make it, out of town on a deserted road.

The message will never EVER sink in, as in geckoGTs thread, the woman involved wasn't necessarily a 'hoon' driver, but her actions caused the death of a completely innocent people, and all for what? to not have to stop at a red light. Self important BS that the current world (not just gen y) have an issue with.

I talk at length with my lovely girlfriend (Sezzy) about all these things, topics like, its not normally the car enthusiasts issue as they tend to have alot better understanding of what they are doing and what their driving. Not meaning their better drivers, but tend to well, have more pride in their vehicle, an understanding of physics and dynamics and how cars handle. This knowledge only comes from working on vehicles, having a passion for vehicles and a deeper understanding of the impact due to lack of care and attention.

Is showing the youth (or everyone?) the results of these horrible things graphically and in your face type messages the answer to the question? I don't no. I do no however that while at tech for my apprenticeship (painting and decorating) and i believe other trades were the same, we were show what happens when you screw up with everything from bad scaffolding, to paint injections and various other hazards, seeing an arm cut open to try and flash out an enamel paint injection isn't very nice, and though i didn't go batty and start climbing the walls, I was left with a greater respect for the equipment.

As stated in the government hoon response thread, the issues are so deeply ingrained that a full overhaul (and not just of the legal system) but right down to parenting, education, respect, legal and moral, rights and responsibilities. The issues is not JUST speed, its not JUST talking on your mobile phone. These are JUST surface issues, the question is (and it hang in my mind often while out driving) WHY do people believe its there god damn right to do 90 in an 80 zone, talk on a mobile phone, tailgate, run reds or lock up the breaks and abuse the person in front for daring to stop, people (you, me and your next door neighbor) are merely ants, none more or less important than the other, safety is OUR responsibility.

Then you read fantastic stories about mums getting their 5 year old children drunk.....because he 'likes his alcohol' seriously.....some people suffer from not being punched enough....but its fine, that kid will grow up getting away with everything because his mother was a pathetic oxygen thief so he cant be blame.

We have a limp-wristed government body who don't give a rats about your bloody safety, whose only agenda is to get in again next election, an opposition whose only job in life is to whinge about everything said currently elected party are doing (or not doing) an education system that's going down the toilet, people are paid to sit on their *** and breed future generations so they can pass on their own BS ideals.

Are humans just programmed to self destruct? Are we so hell bent on killing each other and destroying everything we know and love because of......god alone knows what.

ARGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

/end rant

you saved me 5 minutes of writing time, 100% correct and agreed, aside from the fact I dont date sezzy :P

[JC260]

Originally Posted by elvisidal

my 6 year old nephew told me I was stupid for getting a car that goes too fast and hurts people

Maybe with time there'll be a whole generation of kids who don't want to go fast?

I'm curious as to where he might have got that idea from?

There's alot of enjoyment to be had with cars and it would be sad to see a "cars are bad mmmkay?" attitude take hold.

[ea90gl]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

The problem now days is that parents CAN'T enforce anything on their children, they know their rights, and they can't be disciplined...granted some parents still do, however, they are few and far between. Whilst most parents try to bring their children up with good values, etc., it seems that the 'litigation age' is causing some severe ramifications to the result of the young people today - you can't say this, you can't mark in red pen, it's aggressive. Kids can be educated by their parents, but when all the role models that we have, football players, cricketing stars, and the like, are all being pinged for doing the same things, mobile phones while driving, drink driving, etc...we're not really teaching them anything are we??

Good points but the way I see it my kids will be raised by respecting people who respect them, not some moron who knows how to sing, act well, or play sport. When where these so called role models when the house was on fire? when where these clowns when we got massive bills to pay? People to me are nothing untill they establish they are good enough to be looked up to, not from what they do in thier own lives. Just like how we all came to grips with the non existence of the Easter bunny and Santa and moved on, i'm sure the same can happen to any other person in this world.

[350125GO]

There are always going to be people dying on our roads, and for sure there will be many more knee jerk reactions to come. You either need to ban fun and freedom (police state) or accept the fact that bad decisions can lead to death.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by charlie200

It seems that everyone is concluding that the car was at excessive speed but i dont see that written anywhere in the story.

Safe assumption, I have never been to a crash where one car has hit a pole that did not involve it travelling too fast for the conditions and the vast majority of the time it involves speed much higher then the posted limit. The only exception I have ever attended involved the drivers falling asleep at the wheel. Considering there were passengers, I doubt this was the case. Cars do not have a magnetic attraction with power poles, trees, walls, buildings etc and crash into them without there being some cause.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Safe assumption, I have never been to a crash where one car has hit a pole that did not involve it travelling too fast for the conditions and the vast majority of the time it involves speed much higher then the posted limit. The only exception I have ever attended involved the drivers falling asleep at the wheel. Considering there were passengers, I doubt this was the case. Cars do not have a magnetic attraction with power poles, trees, walls, buildings etc and crash into them without there being some cause.

Exactly... looking at the damage its safe to say they we're travelling pretty quickly, the media has reserved any judgement on this so far, obviously waiting for police reports to emerge.
My guess is wet road, traction control turned off, too much right foot, too little experience, too little brain power.. game over..

[PANELCORP]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Exactly... looking at the damage its safe to say they we're travelling pretty quickly, the media has reserved any judgement on this so far, obviously waiting for police reports to emerge.
My guess is wet road, traction control turned off, too much right foot, too little experience, too little brain power.. game over..

I would have to agree with you

Horrible weekend for driving (in any car, not only ones with power)

Another sad loss and more families left to question why

[4Vman]

Similar to gun licensing laws it should be impossible to purchase restricted vehicles in the first place.... Surely this loophole needs to be closed.

[bingoTE50]

Gez what a waste .

I hope the survivors of the accidents take it upon themselves to visit schools or talk to their peers in trying to gain something positive out of the situations they were in .

The ad on tv with the girl in the wheelchair speaking about the accident she was in on mothers day is striking as it is sad.
But unfortunately, how many 17 year old sit around watching TV, they need to get more funky with their advertising , use Facebook ,Twitter,visit schools, etc.
My sons school had a policeman ( parent) speak , but it needs the girl in the wheelchair , the guy with one arm and leg ( i guy i played football with !! ) , to get this message through.
Then insist on advanced driving lessons ( like Ian Luff runs) as part of the licensing process.
I mean really ,my son has had six lessons with a instructor and had not done one emergency braking procedure,speak about spacial awareness,car control ,etc , bloody hopeless.
I have been the one teaching this .
As soon as he gets his P's ,off to a Safety Driving Course for him.

[wicksy]

its ****************** like that are ruining it for other people, brother in law cant get a exemption to drive a turbo diesel cruiser to share the driving for motocross, coz he travels all around qld, because it may be to dangerous, ffs

[MAV50L]

Advanced driving courses are a double edged sword.
People who have done will will push harder on the roads because they have been trained and think they know what they are doing.
Totally different environment but when you do come unstuck on a surburban road compared to a skid pan.
Years ago when the advanced driving courses started to become to thing to do a photocopier service company in Sydney put all their service drivers through one as their insurance company offered a discount on their fleet insurance if they all did it.
In the next 12 months the companies claims actually increased by 300% as the drivers pushed harder because they knew what to do.
Imagine giving a 18 year old who knows everything anyway that extra knowledge............. some times too much education and knowledge can be even more dangerous.

[Falcon Coupe]

Restricted vehicles should not just be illegal to drive but illegal to own until the restriction period ends.
Why is someone legally sold a vehicle they may not drive ?

[HLC]

wow this happened just down the road from my gf's house. she lives on bennet road just near the highway. and not to far from my place. absolutely terrible.

that road is such a drag strip but, and im guilty of giving it a caining down their too. its dead straight and a lot of young blokes with hotted up cars in the area keen for a fang :( it was bucketing rain lastnight too all night. such a tradgedy.

some of her friends know the victims too :(

[ST]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I'm just glad they didn't kill any innocent people. Feel sorry for the family, but have no sympathy for these would be murderers - and that's exactly what they would be had they killed someone else. These are NOT accidents.

So you are saying they intentionally drove into a pole? You personally knew all 3 people in the car and feel the title of 'would be murderer' befits each of them? You believe the passengers were responsible for the drivers actions and deserve no sympathy?

Oh and would you let their families know how you feel about their deceased?

[MAV50L]

You will find that most likely that the restricted vehicle would legally be owned by the parents , older brother , sister etc................... and that they would just have the it will be ok attitude.
I know my first couple of V8's when I was on my P's and just off them were owned by my old man so they could be insured. I was just listed as a regular driver.
I did the same for my brother when he had his before he built up a no claim bonus.
Mind you we both could legally drive a V8 on our P's at that time.
I drive that road very regulary a smy missus works near there , and trust me it was just unlucky that a restricted vehicle has come into the mixed.
Street racing within the P plate fraternity is rampant on that road and 95% of the cars involved and doing the real stupid stuff are actually vehicles that can be legally driven!
The scene of this accident is 3 km up the road from the scene of the last one there that got all the experts here going off. Remember a couple of years ago where the old couple were killed when they were cleaned up 3 people street racing?
It was just up the road from there............
Bring back the days like when I was on my P's. As a P plater we had no rights , the P was known as the red and white target for a reason , we were constantly harrassed by the police and if we so much as sneezed while driving , it was walking for 3 months.
The only way to keep your licence was to behave and lay low.
Nowdays they have the police ombudsman , the law says the police cant harrass you and all the P platers have their rights. We have gone too soft as a community and look at what is happening.

[MAV50L]

Originally Posted by HLC

wow this happened just down the road from my gf's house. she lives on bennet road just near the highway. and not to far from my place. absolutely terrible.

that road is such a drag strip but, and im guilty of giving it a caining down their too. its dead straight and a lot of young blokes with hotted up cars in the area keen for a fang :( it was bucketing rain lastnight too all night. such a tradgedy.

some of her friends know the victims too :(

100% correct. The road is a total drag strip. It is actually a road where a speed camera every km could be justified , but not one to be seen anywhere.
The weather last night was shocking. The fact it was an XR6 Turbo has nothing to do with it. The road is crap , it was bucketing down rain and people are always up for a run along there. The exact same thing could of happened to someone driving a Prius.................just would of took more of a runup but to get some speed.
Even after this last night I can guarantee I could take my rather noisy V8 for a drive down there tonight and I will have at least 3 people want to have a run. Im in my 30's by the way.

[pottery beige]

Darwin's theory of evolution.. Stupid people will die.. Shame about the passenger's or the family car full of five this ******* could have ploughed into...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MAV50L

100% correct. The road is a total drag strip. It is actually a road where a speed camera every km could be justified , but not one to be seen anywhere.
The weather last night was shocking. The fact it was an XR6 Turbo has nothing to do with it. The road is crap , it was bucketing down rain and people are always up for a run along there. The exact same thing could of happened to someone driving a Prius.................just would of took more of a runup but to get some speed.
Even after this last night I can guarantee I could take my rather noisy V8 for a drive down there tonight and I will have at least 3 people want to have a run. Im in my 30's by the way.

You cant say the car had nothing to do with it at all.

I'll reserve judgement till the investigation results start to come out but the fact is an XR6T in the hands of an inexperienced immature driver is a disaster waiting to happen if they do not respect the power under their right foot and leave things like the traction control on..
LSD without traction control with an enourmous burst of power that a XR6T would give is simply extremely dangerous on a wet road, add too much speed and you end up with this result.

Again we don't know the facts yet but I'll bet he was simply caught out by having too much power at his disposal for too little maturity and experience, temptation may have cost lives....

8 years ago i was nearly killed when a p plater driving a VL Turbo lost control fishtailing coming towards me on a wet road and ploughed into us head on, his excuse was the turbo kicked in and that sudden burst of power snapped the tail out.. :

Had he been in a N/A commodore he wouldnt have had nearly the rush of power to break traction the way it did.

Power restrictions DO WORK if they're followed and adhered to..

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by MAV50L

The fact it was an XR6 Turbo has nothing to do with it. The road is crap , it was bucketing down rain and people are always up for a run along there. The exact same thing could of happened to someone driving a Prius.................

Possibly but not likely, a Prius will not lose traction at speed when standing on the go peddle like an XR6T can, something many here fail to understand.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Possibly but not likely, a Prius will not lose traction at speed when standing on the go peddle like an XR6T can, something many here fail to understand.

Absolutely Correct... its the sudden avaliability of power and acceleration that is the main problem, not what speed a car can eventually be wound up to do....
We all have to accept there maybe temptation, immaturity and a lack of self control in young drivers, but reducing the ability to get themselves into trouble by limiting the cars they drive is a positive step.

[MAV50L]

I totally understand the points raised by both 4V man and Falcon Coupe and yes they are both correct.
Hey I can even get my 5.0 NF to break traction at 60km in the wet if I stand on it and they are no rocket ship. Also having driven my brothers XR6T on more then one occasion when he had it I agree they are lethal in the dry much less the wet.
The media will just clutch onto the fact that it is a high performance car and roll with it as thats what the public laps up.
They wont go on about dim witted young driver attitudes , because thats pointing the bone and pointing blame at people.
The accident down the south coast last week didnt get a lot of coverage because it couldnt be beaten up to their standards.
Dont worry about the fact that the girl driving was a P plater , was speeding and had more people in the car then she was allowed.
It was just a tragic accident as it was a Hyundai Excel she was driving...................
They seem to only clutch atthe male driving a high performance car bit and the dumb sheep public lap it up.......................

[GK351]

Anybody know if the deceased were part of the ford forums community?
Any p plater with a XR6 turbo surley follows this sort of stuff.

Another loss, where will it end? will it ever?

[jcxr]

I dont know If the rules have changed lately, but there is no loss of points for driving a high powered car on your "P"s, fine only. So what does that sort of look like, money raising? Make 'em walk for 12 months. Any infringment on your "P"s should be automatic pedestrian status.