Ecoboost whats the point

[olds]

Originally Posted by olds

Bought a march 2012 territory what have you got

Not a company or fleet car my hard earned

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm more excited about the 3 cyl 1L Ecoboost going into Fiesta and entry level Focus, now that is interesting.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What about people who pay 50k+ for a 4 cylinder 3 series or C Class Merc.

What about them.

They're paying for a badge and brand snobbery, nothing more.

I have to agree with olds and Crazy Dazz, for the private buyer there doesn't seem to be a great deal to offer.
Personally, I've switched our current family petrol powered vehicles over to diesels, better economy again over the petrol equivalent.

IMO the Falcon should have had a diesel in it a long time ago. Hell, I may have even bought one if it did.

[Chilliman]

Something everyone seems to have overlooked - there's no money in the kitty left to continue developing the I6 in the future if RWD Falcon lives past 2016. The EcoBoost makes a good argument for a base engine, which I suspect is becoming cheaper to buy than the inline six (given global economies of scale).

I say give the next RWD Falcon (should it get the green light) the choice of EcoBoost, Coyote V8 and Territory's Turbo-Diesel V6

[buickman]

Camry's ran a 4cyl and V6 in their GEN 3,4 and 5 models and both sold well for Toyota and a lot of the 4 cyl went the fleet and rentals.

[Auslandau]

Very obvious i would think. Choice is nice to have isn't it? What is the point of a Territory? I don't want one so must be pointless! What's the point of a GT 335? Can only travel at 110k max and do double the liters per 100 and costing double? Really a pointless investment by FPV you think compared to shoe horning in an engine already developed? More worthy of discussion I would think

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Something everyone seems to have overlooked - there's no money in the kitty left to continue developing the I6 in the future if RWD Falcon lives past 2016. The EcoBoost makes a good argument for a base engine, which I suspect is becoming cheaper to buy than the inline six (given global economies of scale).

I say give the next RWD Falcon (should it get the green light) the choice of EcoBoost, Coyote V8 and Territory's Turbo-Diesel V6

But the I6 is such an awesome engine, name me a car in the same price range with an engine this flexible (fast, efficient, tow ability etc)! Why it doesn't sell is a mystery to many.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The BMW 3 and 5 series would come close, available with 4, 6 and 8 cylinders, NA and Turbo as well as diesel.

Add the E-Class Merc (and C) with 4 cylinder petrol/diesel, 6 petrol/diesel and V8.
S-Class with V6 petrol and diesel, V8 and V12 petrol.

back on topic, the point of the EcoBoost is to try and claw back market share lost to frugal medium sedans. i think it is a good idea and hopefully translates into a few more sales. Hell even if Ford with the next Falcon ditch the I6, get the V6 and start exports. The I4 and V6 are global motors.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Cashie

But the I6 is such an awesome engine, name me a car in the same price range with an engine this flexible (fast, efficient, tow ability etc)! Why it doesn't sell is a mystery to many.

To you yes ..... To many others no .....

Diesel was not an investment option for Ford for the falcon. Mondeo and territory fill that spot and it is a fact actually that deisel sedans are not viable in Australia. In SUVs yes ..... Sedans no

[Nic85]

Hmmm... You guys seem to be missing the fact that the announcement isn't far away... How many months now of circa ~1000 sales per month?

Originally Posted by Auslandau

To you yes ..... To many others no .....

Diesel was. It an investment option for Ford for the falcon. Mondeo and territory fill that spot and it is a fact actually that deisel sedans are not viable in Australia. In SUVs yes ..... Sedans no

Based on what exactly? Might pay to do some research on sedan sales numbers in categories where diesel options are available. You might be surprised.

[olds]

Originally Posted by olds

Bought a march 2012 territory what have you got

Not on line Flappist

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Hmmm... You guys seem to be missing the fact that the announcement isn't far away... How many months now of circa ~1000 sales per month?



Based on what exactly? Might pay to do some research on sedan sales numbers in categories where diesel options are available. You might be surprised.

Based on Fords decision to progress with EcoBoost. Deisel figures for sedans in Aust are very low compared to Europe.

[olds]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Very obvious i would think. Choice is nice to have isn't it? What is the point of a Territory? I don't want one so must be pointless! What's the point of a GT 335? Can only travel at 110k max and do double the liters per 100 and costing double? Really a pointless investment by FPV you think compared to shoe horning in an engine already developed? More worthy of discussion I would think

Very profound

[.FoMoCo.]

The way I see it, no engine can carry on for an unlimited time. The I6 has had an incredible run, there's no denying it is a great powerplant that will go down in Australian motoring history as a great.
It might be foolish to believe that any given engine can go on forever. So which direction was FoA going to take the falcon in?
Persevering with the I6, blindly steaming ahead in the face of tightening emissions regulations, rising fuel costs, an eco-savvy public, and a general move away from large sedans? If they had done this then they could well have been critisized harshly for not adapting with the times.
Small capacity direct injected turbo engines are the way ahead, the technology is relatively new, and will only improve given enough time. Look at the V6 ecoboost that is being used in the F150 and the Taurus SHO, that engine is posting up some amazing numbers.
The 2.0 litre ecoboost in the falcon is putting out more KW than the au falcon, and nearly as much torque. Is it just the fact that it has 2 less cylinders that people see it as a wasted effort?
Maybe they need to open their minds a bit, and accept that change is inevitable, just as it has been throughout the history of the falcon.

[Shonky.]

I think you also need to keep in mind that we are not a fair sample of the population. We are a group of individuals who sit here at night talking about cars on the internet.

Even if we all tend to think that Ecoboost doesn't make sense (which obviously is not the case) it doesn't mean that it has no chance of success.

I sit in traffic some nights on the way home looking at the other cars on the road and the people driving them and regularly think to myself, why? Why would you buy that car at the price I know you must have paid?

Everyone always accuses Ford of not doing enough to save Falcon. I think that Ecoboost is about the most radical thing they could try. As has been said, it is another choice and I can only assume that it was meant to open the Falcon up to a new wedge of buyers. Hope it does, time will tell

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by olds

Very profound

Nope. Just common sense really.

I just don't understand why you or anyone else needs to be 'convinced' to buy one when you are obviously not the target market? If you were you would already know why you would consider it.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Based on Fords decision to progress with EcoBoost. Deisel figures for sedans in Aust are very low compared to Europe.

So you're saying that Ford has got it spot on with the Ecoboost and diesel should not have been pursued?

Because Ford don't get these decisions wrong, do they. "No one would buy a diesel Territory - wouldn't sell. This is Australia, mate!"

[flappist]

Originally Posted by olds

Not on line Flappist

Am now, 2012 FG2 XR6 Turbo which is a FALCON not a different model car.

[jpd80]

Truth?
The market on large sedans has changed much more rapidly than either Holden or Ford have anticipated.
Holden has just committed a whole bunch for another five years, I see a race to the bottom in spending
good money after bad and Holden is winning.

[XR Martin]

Ditch the Falcon and build the Ranger. Offer Ecoboost 2L and 3.5L engines, FPV can do a Miami version.

12months ago people laughed at me when I said the Ranger would be the best selling Ford in Oz....If production in Thailand was at 100% it would already be.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nic85

So you're saying that Ford has got it spot on with the Ecoboost and diesel should not have been pursued?

Because Ford don't get these decisions wrong, do they. "No one would buy a diesel Territory - wouldn't sell. This is Australia, mate!"

If ford had it spot on they would be the market leaders in Aust with the profits to match. I would think its obvious that they think a deisel Terri is required and a deisel is not required in a Falcon?

It is their market research that determines which way to go ..... Hence deisel in Terri and EcoBoost in Falcon.

Get used to the term EcoBoost ...... Small capacity and high output petrol engines. Not just 4 cylinder.

Yes .... A deisel Falcon was very much discussed but a case could not be made unlike the 4cyl

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Truth?
The market on large sedans has changed much more rapidly than either Holden or Ford have anticipated.
Holden has just committed a whole bunch for another five years, I see a race to the bottom in spending
good money after bad and Holden is winning.

Just reading about the VF Commodore now. Heaps of improvements across the board - 70kg weight saving, big upgrade in power (237kW/376Nm for 3.6L SIDI) and efficiency (8% across the board, which means 3L SIDI will be around 8.3L/100km) A lot more kit - heated seats, HUD, auto stop/start, proximity key, blind spot warning etc.

It's going to advance the game a fair way, but the reality is that its sales will continue to slide.

I think you're dead right, and I think the sooner Ford make the announcement, the better.

Originally Posted by Auslandau

If ford had it spot on they would be the market leaders in Aust with the profits to match. I would think its obvious that they think a deisel Terri is required and a deisel is not required in a Falcon?

It is their market research that determines which way to go ..... Hence deisel in Terri and EcoBoost in Falcon.

Get used to the term EcoBoost ...... Small capacity and high output petrol engines. Not just 4 cylinder.

Yes .... A deisel Falcon was very much discussed but a case could not be made unlike the 4cyl

You missed my point, but nevermind.

My point was that you're talking about the same company who said no one would buy a diesel Territory, and almost let it slide into sales oblivion before making the diesel case work for it, and look at sales now. I personally think if they had of done the R&D for the Falcon diesel at the same time, it would have been a game changer, but, we will never know I guess.

I'm all for small capacity forced induction engines. I had an Evo 8 for years and it was spastic fast, but on the highway would do 8L/100km just like a normal Lancer. I just don't think the Falcon is the right car for it, and sales figures would suggest I'm right.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Just reading about the VF Commodore now. Heaps of improvements across the board - 70kg weight saving, big upgrade in power (237kW/376Nm for 3.6L SIDI) and efficiency (8% across the board, which means 3L SIDI will be around 8.3L/100km) A lot more kit - heated seats, HUD, auto stop/start, proximity key, blind spot warning etc.

It's going to advance the game a fair way, but the reality is that its sales will continue to slide.

I think you're dead right, and I think the sooner Ford make the announcement, the better.

i think a commo with those specs would actually be quite a decent ride

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

i think a commo with those specs would actually be quite a decent ride

Current SV6 weight is 1665kgs if Carsales are to be believed, take 70kgs weight saving and you have a 1595kg sedan with 237kW - 148.6kw/tonne doesn't sound too bad.

I'm no Holden fan or anything. Just telling it how it is.

[flooded one]

most new sedans are still petrol motors anyway. i can however see a case for the falcon ute having a diesel option with four wheel drive (also optional) would be a bloody good work ute that

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just wondering olds and crazy dazz, which model new falcon have you both bought?

What is the Point of your Question?
Why are you targeting us? Why not ask the same question of others?

As an individual, the last Falcon I bought new was a BF2 GT, but previously we’ve bought an XF, EB, EF, & AU, also near new XF2, EA, and AU3. (And yes most of those were put on LPG.)
As a family car we’ve been looking at Territorys, but to be honest I don’t like the TD so I'm actually looking for TTG to put on LPG.
I have thought of another GT as my personal car, but my current plan is to go for something more nostalgic.

In my penultimate role, I bought several Rangers, Tojos, and a few BFs. I wanted to have them on LPG, but that would have meant giving the managers fuel cards whereas we had our own ULP bowser onsite.
In my last role, again a LOT of Rangers, although the Boss had a G6E.
In my new role, who knows, I'm not sure what the Communists use for cars now days…

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

so sick of reading negative ****

yes it seems the fun thing too do nowdays bag out the falcon.*rolls eyes* its not the falcons fault its not selling well look at the situation. not many people want a large sedan anymore. large car sales are going south quickly. plus theres that much choice now on the market

[MWTB]

I really don't understand the original question. If you don't want it, don't buy it. As mentioned, there are any number of other choices to choose from in the Falcon range if you want a 6, 6t, 8, or SC8.

Some folks want the zippiness of a little 4 cyl turbo engine (less weight etc), some want the fuel economy (it's all well and good to front up 36k but then you have to deal with the extra running costs...its not always a case of if you can afford the car you can afford to run the car), and some people might want the **** factor of saying 'I'm greener than you'.

If you want an i6, i6t, 8, or 8SC then buy those instead, no one is forcing you to buy the 4t.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by MWTB

I really don't understand the original question. If you don't want it, don't buy it. As mentioned, there are any number of other choices to choose from in the Falcon range if you want a 6, 6t, 8, or SC8.

Some folks want the zippiness of a little 4 cyl turbo engine (less weight etc), some want the fuel economy (it's all well and good to front up 36k but then you have to deal with the extra running costs...its not always a case of if you can afford the car you can afford to run the car), and some people might want the **** factor of saying 'I'm greener than you'.

If you want an i6, i6t, 8, or 8SC then buy those instead, no one is forcing you to buy the 4t.

cant buy an 8 any more, just the sc8.

[Elks]

EcoBoost is the future.

I6 is the past. It's hanging in there but lest face it it has 3 or 4 years left at the most. If as we hope Falcon survives it will be with a V6 (probably EcoBoost) .

Smaller capacity engines with boost via either turbo or supercharging with advanced electronics is the way all manufacturers are going. Be it the 5.0 S/C motors in FPV's or the new AMG range of "63's" of 6.2 atmo's being replaced by boosted 5.4's or Fords 1.0 boosted 3 cyl Focus.

The power and torque and performance of the EB4 is in line with an AU falcon, in itself widely regarded as more than acceptable for everyday performance.

EB4 makes perfect sense. Doing nothing to keep up with the modern world is insane.