NSW P-Plater restrictions - part two.

[Hawk]

4 months to go..............

4 months to go..............

4 months to go..............

THEN NO MORE P-PLATES!!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!

[PULLY6]

Originally Posted by Hawk

4 months to go..............

4 months to go..............

4 months to go..............

THEN NO MORE P-PLATES!!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!

Damn you! I've got another 18 months with one point, on P's.

Not to worry.

[outback_ute]

Steffo I don't doubt what you say about people being idiots regardless of the car, however unless you can come with a way of legislating driver attitude the govt will have to stick to legislating the cars. Just because it is not a 100% effective solution - that doesn't exist - does that mean the govt should do nothing? Driver training and licensing standards is what they haven’t addressed yet.

Originally Posted by Steffo

The fact that Australia claims to being a free, equal rights, equal opportunities country. If everyone else can own a BA XT 220 V8, why can't a 17 - 19 year old?

Why can’t a 17 year old drink, vote, etc? There are restrictions/limits on many things, it does not prevent it from being a free country.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Finally driving is a privilege not a right – what makes you think you have the “right” to drive a hotted up car or V8 on your Ps?

ummm... the part that says you have your licence now you can drive a car! mabey thats where...

[PULLY6]

Having your licence means you can obey the road rules. It doesn't YET say you can drive. When the government starts to introduce compulsory advanced driver training (at a subsidised cost - perhaps they could use the speed camera revenue? nooo!) THEN we'll start to see some results. Until then they'll take the easy route and ban anyone under 30 getting in a car with more than 4 cylinders and 2 people. Its f*king ridiculous.

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by Heeno

ummm... the part that says you have your licence now you can drive a car! mabey thats where...

But under these new laws a P1 or P2 licence only gives you the right to drive certain cars not V8s etc. It doesn’t give you the right to drive a truck either – the basic skills involved are the same, explain to me how that is any different?

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by PULLY6

When the government starts to introduce compulsory advanced driver training (at a subsidised cost - perhaps they could use the speed camera revenue? nooo!) THEN we'll start to see some results.

lol man most of my mates and alot of ppl i know went through the defencive driving course...im scared of every one of them, there shocking drivers, just because they did it, they think there the best drivers around yet seem to still get them selves into accidents and have a hard time trying to stay on 1 line but yet they still think there the best drivers around because they have done that stupid bloody course!

i have never done it, and i doubt i ever will, personal experience is more then enough to keep me away

[2IC]

Originally Posted by Heeno

ummm... the part that says you have your licence now you can drive a car! mabey thats where...

ummmmm... a PROVISIONAL licence only says "I can read the road rules book and am just old enough to be behind the wheel, I am still learning, please be patient" NOT "I am a prefessional driver that can handle anything a car can throw at me..."

The whole argument that ppl will be stupid in any type of car seems to me to defeat itself... if they are going to be stupid regardless, I would rather it be in a slower, more docile car than a hi powered one.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

But under these new laws a P1 or P2 licence only gives you the right to drive certain cars not V8s etc. It doesn’t give you the right to drive a truck either – the basic skills involved are the same, explain to me how that is any different?

why should you be told what car you can and can't have? its not the car at all, its the driver! i am proud to say i rolled a toyota carolla 85 into a tree! yes i was speeding but also had a roll cage and helmet and gear on, not a scratch on me and only cost $70 for the car what else would you do, anyway my point is its not the car its the driver, why not just extend the learners licence and try that first or make it relevent to P1's not P2's instead of sayin what cars we can and can't have thats just stupid!

also a truck is not a car! LOL therefore differant licence

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by 2IC

ummmmm... a PROVISIONAL licence only says "I can read the road rules book and am just old enough to be behind the wheel, I am still learning, please be patient" NOT "I am a prefessional driver that can handle anything a car can throw at me..."

your all the same, you think that P means no experience, how do you know the experience some of these guys have? i spose the 8 years experience i had befor i got my P plates means nothing eh? 19 now so whats that... 10 years experience, same as a 27 year old...get over yourselves, my gf just got her P's and she would have to be one of the safest drivers i know behind the wheel of an SV6()

[Heeno]

Don't get me wrong i couldn't give a stuff if they pass this law, its just a bit unfair on all the newby's comming through who now have to check this stupid bloody thing everytime they see a car they like. and if you don't have the net lol your screwed

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by 2IC

ummmmm... a PROVISIONAL licence only says "I can read the road rules book and am just old enough to be behind the wheel, I am still learning, please be patient" NOT "I am a prefessional driver that can handle anything a car can throw at me..."

what you stated there, change PROVISIONAL to LEARNERS and your correct, otherwise you shouldn't be aloud out alone and should still have your mummy next to you

[DivHunter]

From a study conducted by the Uni of WA and printed in the Sunday Times in WA:

Young drivers are no more likely to have a fatal or serious crash in a powerful car than in other vehicles, research has revealed.
The University of WA study-the first of it's type in the world-dismissed the myth that vehicle performance is a major cause of crashes for young, novice drivers.
Road Safety Council chairman Grant Dorrington said the study showed that most fatal and serious crashes among drivers in their first two years of holding a license did not involve powerful vehicles.
And reprt author Peter Palamara said less powerful, smaller & lighter cars could be more dangerous in crashes because they could offer less protection.
"Smaller cars with low power-to-weight ratios can also offer very poor protection against injury because of their low vehicle mass" he said. "About 20-30% of risk of being killed in a crash can be attributed to vehicle mass - the greater the mass of the car, the greater chance of surviving the crash".
He said that restricting young drivers from having more powerful cars could also deny them the safety of bigger cars. The UWA inquiry research centre study, commissioned by the safety council, called for the proposed restrictions on high powered vehicles for novice drivers to be dismissed. Victoria already has such restrictions and NSW likely to follow.
But Mr Dorrington said the research centre recommended that the speeding behaviour of young novice drivers be targeted through changes to the licensing & penalty system, not through access to certain types of vehicles. He said it also reccommended that educational materials be developed and give to both novice drivers & parents highlighting safety features & the need for such drivers to use vehicles that provided them with greater safety & protection.
The study examined 662 serious-injury crashes in 1999 & 2000 in WA, and drivers which had not crashed.
The power to weight ratio of the crashed vehicles was calculated & compared with the power-to weight ratio of vehicles driven by novice drivers who did not crash in the same period. Only 3% of crashed vehicles had a power-to-weight ratio of more than 100kw a tonne.
And only 2 vehicles had power-to-weight ratios above 125kw a tonne, which was the exclusion point under Victorian legislation. Mr Dorrington said the study highlighted speeding as a cause of most serious crashes involving novice drivers & it was common knowledge that speed was the cause of death in 33% of fatalities. But Mr Palamara said people did not have to drive powerful cars to speed. Mr Dorrington said young, inexperienced drivers aged 17-24 were grossly over-represented in the road statistics. They comprised 30% of all fatalities, even though they represented only 14% of WA licence holders.
"Consequently, we beleive the proposals for novice drivers which are currently up for public discussion could save up to 28 young lives a year on WA roads".
Those proposals revealed by the Sunday Times earlier this month included a night curfew & a total alcohol ban for young drivers.

[Heeno]

Well there you go can't argue facts.

good work on the research Fairmont99

[MITCHAY]

I could of have said that without research. But good on ya for diggin it up. Hats off to you. Should shut some people up. As ive said before high performance doesnt always just mean engine capabalities. It means better brakes, better suspension, etc Anyone whos been a good performance car can tell they handle way better and can stop quicker. POS slide out everywhere and lock up and have crazy body roll. I see way more crashes with POS car than high performance cars

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

high performance doesnt always just mean engine capabalities. It means better brakes, better suspension, etc Anyone whos been a good performance car can tell they handle way better and can stop quicker. POS slide out everywhere and lock up and have crazy body roll.

i never thought of that, and it is so true!

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Heeno

your all the same, you think that P means no experience, how do you know the experience some of these guys have? i spose the 8 years experience i had befor i got my P plates means nothing eh? 19 now so whats that... 10 years experience, same as a 27 year old...get over yourselves, my gf just got her P's and she would have to be one of the safest drivers i know behind the wheel of an SV6()

This is the know it all attitude that causes accidents. 19 with 10 years experience, sorry bud you have missed the point completely. Provisional is a learning time, You may more than adaquately be able to handle a car, thats just one part of driving, and from a safety point of view it is not the most important part. Are you trying to tell us you been driving in traffic since 9 years of age? 10 years on the family massey ferguson, or paddock basher can (and I emphasise "can") teach a lot of car craft, what it will not do is teach you Road Skills. Yes that traffic thing, unlike laps on the grey fergie you now have to contend with all the other imbeciles wanting to use that same bit of grey stuff.
And whilst training courses and even racetrack experience can help speed up the process ,there is no way to learn road skills other than experience, P plates are the equivalent of pilots being allowed to fly solo, they mark a basic level of proficiency only.

Originally Posted by Heeno

what you stated there, change PROVISIONAL to LEARNERS and your correct, otherwise you shouldn't be aloud out alone and should still have your mummy next to you

This exactly the 19yo know it all attitude that is so dangerous! A good driver will never stop learning, think you know it all and you are just demonstrating you haven't a clue. You may have car skills over them, but some of those little old ladies probably mock will have road skills you can only dream about. When you have a 20 plus year incident free record you can maybe consider yourself a good driver.

I may bruise a few teen egos with what I have said, tough, you guys seem to forget that full licensed drivers have all been through the process before you, many did stupid things just like we see done now, thing is most of us have learnt from them.

There are better ways to learn than wrapping a car around a tree, or being in the right in an accident that could have been avoided, which actually puts you in the wrong. Take the advice people.

[MITCHAY]

I reckon advanced driving training will only make idiots bigger idiots because they will delibrately get the car out of control thinkn they can control it. Of course its useful for the responsible drivers but i doubt they would typically find themselves in a situation where they would need it.

[Heeno]

red el xr8,
you got it all wrong there buddy, my way of driving is, cars on road = granny driving, road with no cars, no houses and clearly visable = fun driving. but im not going to bother argueing with you, your all the same. P plate means no experience to you guys

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I reckon advanced driving training will only make idiots bigger idiots because they will delibrately get the car out of control thinkn they can control it.

you just described my mates to a tee, think because they did a few courses it makes them the next world champion formula 1 driver

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Heeno

red el xr8,
you got it all wrong there buddy, my way of driving is, cars on road = granny driving, road with no cars, no houses and clearly visable = fun driving. but im not going to bother argueing with you, your all the same. P plate means no experience to you guys

clearly visible meens you saw it. Its the one that you missed seeing is when the trouble occurred.

Yes P Plate does meen bugger all experiance, thats a no-brainer, means same to the transport departments too. I dont care if your first drive was 3 years before childbirth at 19yo at best you've had 2 years exerience at gaining road skills, something you never stop learning. Don't care if it hurts your ego your stilla beginner with a capital B.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Heeno

red el xr8,
you got it all wrong there buddy, my way of driving is, cars on road = granny driving, road with no cars, no houses and clearly visable = fun driving. but im not going to bother argueing with you, your all the same. P plate means no experience to you guys

Road with no cars, no houses, clearly visible = car embedded in tree as a result of your "fun driving"

P Plate does mean no experience, you just proved it with that statement. Accidents dont need a second party to occur, they can happen when you are the only car on the road. Try losing a tyre at high speed one day on that quiet cleary visible road with no houses, and see how long you last. Try taking a corner too fast and having a caliper lock up while in the process of trying to slow down. How about a kangaroo bouncing their dumb giant rat *** onto the road when you are doing high speed. There is an endless list of things that can go wrong while you are having "fun"

My only hope is you dont take out some witless passenger along with you upon your mystical journey to becomming a statistic.

People dont go out today and say "Today im going to cause an accident" Accidents are accidental, they can happen anytime and anywhere. You will have an accident one day, and you will learn that the above is true, then perhaps you might have some experience. Until then, you are what I was at 19. Just another Teenage Expert in all things.

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

clearly visible meens you saw it. Its the one that you missed seeing is when the trouble occurred.

Yes P Plate does meen bugger all experiance, thats a no-brainer, means same to the transport departments too. I dont care if your first drive was 3 years before childbirth at 19yo at best you've had 2 years exerience at gaining road skills, something you never stop learning. Don't care if it hurts your ego your stilla beginner with a capital B.

19-2=17

you get your Ls at 16 (isn't it like 15 and something in SA?)

Not to be picky or anything :voldar02:

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

clearly visible meens you saw it. Its the one that you missed seeing is when the trouble occurred.

Yes P Plate does meen bugger all experiance, thats a no-brainer, means same to the transport departments too. I dont care if your first drive was 3 years before childbirth at 19yo at best you've had 2 years exerience at gaining road skills, something you never stop learning. Don't care if it hurts your ego your stilla beginner with a capital B.

you haven't lived in the country have you!! like i said im not going to bother arguing with someone that obviously hasn't been around yet and has the common tunnel vision. i think you need to get out a bit more mate.

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

19-2=17

you get your Ls at 16 (isn't it like 15 and something in SA?)

Not to be picky or anything :voldar02:

in qld, 16.5 you can get your learners, hold that for 6 months then you got your P's at 17 hold that for 3 years and your on your opens

[Heeno]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Road with no cars, no houses, clearly visible = car embedded in tree as a result of your "fun driving"

P Plate does mean no experience, you just proved it with that statement. Accidents dont need a second party to occur, they can happen when you are the only car on the road. Try losing a tyre at high speed one day on that quiet cleary visible road with no houses, and see how long you last. Try taking a corner too fast and having a caliper lock up while in the process of trying to slow down. How about a kangaroo bouncing their dumb giant rat *** onto the road when you are doing high speed. There is an endless list of things that can go wrong while you are having "fun"

My only hope is you dont take out some witless passenger along with you upon your mystical journey to becomming a statistic.

People dont go out today and say "Today im going to cause an accident" Accidents are accidental, they can happen anytime and anywhere. You will have an accident one day, and you will learn that the above is true, then perhaps you might have some experience. Until then, you are what I was at 19. Just another Teenage Expert in all things.

so what your saying is you do all your fun stuff around other cars? if so your an idiot thats how car accidents are caused! are you also saying that you don't go out and do a bit of fun driving every now and then, cuz judging by the posts i've read on this site i'd say your all full of sh!t.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Heeno

you haven't lived in the country have you!! like i said im not going to bother arguing with someone that obviously hasn't been around yet and has the common tunnel vision. i think you need to get out a bit more mate.

I haven't huh? I cleary rememer growing up in country NSW and getting a license then. Been driving nearly 30 years in several Australian states and hardly ever had an accident. When did I have that? Oh yeah I remember it was in the country when I was on P-plates. Same time most of my other mates from the bush who'd been driving for years had theirs.

Thankfully mine only involved my pride and joy be dragged away on a flat top.

I went to 3 funerals that year, but then i guess I'm not qualified to know what I'm talking about. Me and everyone else that is trying to warn you that FUN can very quickly get way out of hand.

[Heeno]

[QUOTE=sourbastard] Accidents dont need a second party to occur, they can happen when you are the only car on the road. Try losing a tyre at high speed one day on that quiet cleary visible road with no houses, and see how long you last. Try taking a corner too fast and having a caliper lock up while in the process of trying to slow down. How about a kangaroo bouncing their dumb giant rat *** onto the road when you are doing high speed. There is an endless list of things that can go wrong while you are having "fun"
[QUOTE]

what you just said could happen to anyone, no matter how experienced they are...whats your point, i would have thought everyone would know that!

[DivHunter]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

P Plate does mean no experience, you just proved it with that statement. Accidents dont need a second party to occur, they can happen when you are the only car on the road. Try losing a tyre at high speed one day on that quiet cleary visible road with no houses, and see how long you last. Try taking a corner too fast and having a caliper lock up while in the process of trying to slow down. How about a kangaroo bouncing their dumb giant rat *** onto the road when you are doing high speed. There is an endless list of things that can go wrong while you are having "fun"

Sorry but come on, all these things can and do happen at any time when driving "normally" and still have fatal consequences. You can't just list off a bunch of possibilities that are due to maintenance or chance and say they are going to happen because of a lack of experience.

I think it's annoying that it's all about you have no experience but instead of being willing to teach they try and find a scape goat to win over votes and or revenue.

Oh and just a real life observation that I have made driving daily over a 1 lane bridge with a giveway sign at one end. Mums in 4WDs, tradies and Telstra vans all completely ignore it on a regular basis : . I have yet to have to slam on my brakes for a P plater (I always approach the bridge with extreme caution and high-beam)

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Heeno

so what your saying is you do all your fun stuff around other cars? if so your an idiot thats how car accidents are caused! are you also saying that you don't go out and do a bit of fun driving every now and then, cuz judging by the posts i've read on this site i'd say your all full of sh!t.

Fun. Thats what the track is for. Spectating and when my XP is build, participating. The road is not for racing, or being a moron. I've Never done a burnout on an open road, or any such "fun". Driving distances everyday is part of my job, and i've done alot more driving in mroe places and conditions then you are likely to do before the end of your life. I have more fun working on my car then driving the sucker anyway.

You my poor boy, are just a 19 year old jackass on his way to becoming a temporary stain on a Highway.

I can tell you easily how accidents are caused. Its caused by human error. Your parents should be able to relate.