VFacts November 2023

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Cars died in 2017 when the VFII Commodore stopped being made,

Originally Posted by Syndrome

There is not one car in the list that I would buy to replace my FG X.

Welcome to a small insignificant minority...

The market decides. Check the sales of large sedans. No one wants them even though other manufacturers try.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Welcome to a small insignificant minority...

The market decides. Check the sales of large sedans. No one wants them even though other manufacturers try.

It's not a free market though, otherwise you wouldn't have incentives pushing people to buy certain things.

But I don't mind being in the minority, it just means everyone else is wrong

[anobserver]

Channeling my inner anorak, noted that Mr I'm-triggered-by-size fetish was filmed riding a bicycle without a helmet.

That merits a stoning with life-expired falafels, surely.

[anobserver]

Channeling my inner anorak, noted that Mr I'm-triggered-by-size fetish was filmed riding a bicycle without a helmet.

That merits a stoning with life-expired falafels, surely. He could try pleading ignorance and put an f150 on afterpay.

Unless he's in Victoria, in which case even the shrine of remembrance wont save him.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

It's not a free market though, otherwise you wouldn't have incentives pushing people to buy certain things.

But I don't mind being in the minority, it just means everyone else is wrong

I don't think anyone buys a 'type' of car they don't want.

Incentives don't alter the market demand for vehicle type.

Manufacturers aren't in control, as much as you might like to think they are forcing people to buy vehicles they don't want. They might bring products to market which have a honeymoon phase but long term, the trends do stabilise.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by prydey

The market decides. Check the sales of large sedans. No one wants them even though other manufacturers try.

SUVs have effectively replaced the large Commodore / Falcon sized car.

Having said that, the VF Commodore was still a 'top 3' seller in it last year on the market.

I don't believe that a Kia Stinger, Skoda Superb or Citroen C5 is a good substitute for a VF Commodore.

Dr Terry

[roKWiz]

and yet Tesla don't seem to have any problems selling the large sedans.

Noted around $ydney, the Cupra seems to be the Uber choice vehicle.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Amazing how many Prados they're delivering at the moment.
For a long time they were capped around 1000 month, but recently jumped to 3000.
They must be pulling them from other markets, I know they were popular in Russia.

yep Prado is smoking obviously stock arrived but they keep on keeping on no matter how fugly they are still the mid to large SUV/4x4 king.
Amazes me Ford just can't gain better consumer sales with Everest let alone Escape in both these sectors that sales are strong for other brands.

IF and when Hyundai release a dual cab it won't be Ford sneaking to 2nd it will be them no doubt about it imo with their range.
Mazda is impressive tbh still as well.

[Rob 351]

RAM 372 and down 47%.
With F150 out there now, I guess the once dominant Ram now how has a lot of competition with Chevrolet and Ford.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

RAM 372 and down 47%.
With F150 out there now, I guess the once dominant Ram now how has a lot of competition with Chevrolet and Ford.

Toyota Tundra will be arriving to our market soon as well, there's going to be a lot of competition in the American ute space

[FTE217]

Got to say myself personally on that list none grab me as a DD unless it’s an Everest V6 Sport or higher spec the rest are butt average for my liking.
If I had to chose my Sprint or one from the list know which key I’d grab each time quite simply.


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[au2000]

Son has just purchased a hilux purely based on the tax man’s advise, although it’s 2nd hand 2018 model, the whole abn thing is not totally accurate, but does help the sales of them, but his tax advise was that as a tradie, abn or not, the whole purchase price, fuel, repairs, rego, insurance etc is tax deductible so financially he was better off taking the plunge…
After going in it I can see why some get them, mind you his “new” hilux has never been off road and he could not justify to himself the cost of em new

[Franco Cozzo]

No, I'm suggesting the top 3 probably wouldn't be moving so many numbers if the incentives disappear.

[XR Martin]

Plus it vibrates so much you can feel it through the steering wheel..
I reckon my lawn mower has less vibration.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Plus it vibrates so much you can feel it through the steering wheel..
I reckon my lawn mower has less vibration.

Yep, very unpleasant. Even when cruising, any slight touch of the throttle has it barking back through the firewall. You see so many people with these things towing and touring with them. That would get very tiring in short order, something you would have to live with. But hey, "Go Your Own Way" or something like that.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Yep, very unpleasant. Even when cruising, any slight touch of the throttle has it barking back through the firewall. You see so many people with these things towing and touring with them. That would get very tiring in short order, something you would have to live with. But hey, "Go Your Own Way" or something like that.

As someone who owns a caravan and who is a member on a caravan forum and have also been to a few van parks, I can vouch for them being very popular among that crowd.

I've never given them a second thought. Did look at them once as an upgrade tow vehicle to the territory but power and torque numbers aren't great. I figured a lot of the older folk bought it because truck motor.

So I'm quite surprised by all this negative feedback. They are a very basic vehicle, inside and out, so I always figured they were popular due to their drive train and now I find out that's pretty rubbish as well.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

As someone who owns a caravan and who is a member on a caravan forum and have also been to a few van parks, I can vouch for them being very popular among that crowd.

I've never given them a second thought. Did look at them once as an upgrade tow vehicle to the territory but power and torque numbers aren't great. I figured a lot of the older folk bought it because truck motor.

So I'm quite surprised by all this negative feedback. They are a very basic vehicle, inside and out, so I always figured they were popular due to their drive train and now I find out that's pretty rubbish as well.

I don't think the durability of that particular engine is in doubt, but its very unrefined, and to me, that would be fatiguing with extended hours behind the wheel. I guess this is why the Prado and Landcruiser sell so well, at least they are somewhat refined for long distance stuff. Everest too now that it comes with the V6.

I have also found over the years that people don't tend talk about the fact they bought the "wrong" car, or that the car they saved money by buying isn't all that good. Same mentality from those who buy MG's or Havels, they get a cheaper purchase price, but also get a cheap experience. Admitting that publicly isn't an easy pill to swallow. (Not meaning to offend anyone with that, just a human trait I have noticed.)

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I have also found over the years that people don't tend talk about the fact they bought the "wrong" car, or that the car they saved money by buying isn't all that good. Same mentality from those who buy MG's or Havels, they get a cheaper purchase price, but also get a cheap experience. Admitting that publicly isn't an easy pill to swallow. (Not meaning to offend anyone with that, just a human trait I have noticed.)

I share the same view.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

. I guess this is why the Prado and Landcruiser sell so well,

While this is true, Ranger is well and truly in the conversation now. I often wander around the van parks when I'm there and ranger is very popular.

So while people might see a lot around town and assume they are just tax write off's etc, there are many being bought because they are a versatile vehicle.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I don't think the durability of that particular engine is in doubt, but its very unrefined, and to me, that would be fatiguing with extended hours behind the wheel. I guess this is why the Prado and Landcruiser sell so well, at least they are somewhat refined for long distance stuff. Everest too now that it comes with the V6.

I have also found over the years that people don't tend talk about the fact they bought the "wrong" car, or that the car they saved money by buying isn't all that good. Same mentality from those who buy MG's or Havels, they get a cheaper purchase price, but also get a cheap experience. Admitting that publicly isn't an easy pill to swallow. (Not meaning to offend anyone with that, just a human trait I have noticed.)

This one was a really good post. In terms of resale value, buying the Territory vs a Prado was definitely the wrong choice in 2007. But, in terms of how nice and comfortable the Territory has been, it's handling and power mix, it's snow capabilities and adventures, and raising kids with it, I'd make it again if FOA still made them. It was a good choice as our lifestyle shifted back to more urban life after all our 4x4 adventures and work. Next time around, if only Toyota made petrol or petrol hybrid Prados and LC300s! (I can see these on 'car from japan' website...)

[FTE217]

lol the MUX.
Bro in-law had the last gen more so for towing a van and budget.
Rides like a hard turd - towed ok no more no less he struggled owning it having had a Land Rover Disco company car before that was awesum to he mind you with factory wty.


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[MITCHAY]

Yet again just daylight between Toyota and next best in total sales. Hoping Ranger finishes on top at least because if was in the market that is where I'd start before a Hilux.

[FTE217]

Yep hilux isn’t as popular for the van towing crowd as mentioned - they have 2 other options that cut the mustard easily that other brands don’t have any other option as much.
Sure Ford has the Everest but it doesn’t seem to get buyers in enough at all.
MUX has the background thought with some due to the ol Isuzu past - it’s price price price why people end up with them more than anything else let’s face it deep down they’d prefer to buy a Prado or 200series but don’t have the $$$ hence as mentioned they won’t admit that but rave about their MUX.
It’s a dog don’t care what any forum says but does the job nothing more.
RAM’s are plenty more when we frequent cara parks - Silverado at times but they also have the mega Tahaj mahal van and outdoor set up like a outdoor wedding haha


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[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Yep hilux isn’t as popular for the van towing crowd as mentioned - they have 2 other options that cut the mustard easily that other brands don’t have any other option as much.
Sure Ford has the Everest but it doesn’t seem to get buyers in enough at all.
MUX has the background thought with some due to the ol Isuzu past - it’s price price price why people end up with them more than anything else let’s face it deep down they’d prefer to buy a Prado or 200series but don’t have the $$$ hence as mentioned they won’t admit that but rave about their MUX.
It’s a dog don’t care what any forum says but does the job nothing more.
RAM’s are plenty more when we frequent cara parks - Silverado at times but they also have the mega Tahaj mahal van and outdoor set up like a outdoor wedding haha


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All the Hilux's must be in Victoria's High Country then, because I usually see plenty towing camper trailers all around the North East.
Seemed to be the go to pulling these things rarely see one pulling a wobbly.

[Sprintey]

Thanks for all the replies on the MUX, forum is a great resource to get the pub's opinion.

"Silverado at times but they also have the mega Tahaj mahal van and outdoor set up like a outdoor wedding haha"

Yep our older in laws, about 15 years older so a different generation, got the retirement RAM in Mad Max theme, all decked out at a 200K spend, then the mega dual axle van with all the comforts of a McMansion and all the modern tech... to do trips from van park to van park and have had all sorts of fun parking the beasts. Back in 2002 we did 18 month work trip fully remote with HJ60 and 16ft single axle bed/bunk setup pop top with 2 kids homeschooled, and managed to fit it all and have a blast despite it being simple - in fact we wanted to mail most of the stuff home and thought it would be better being even more simple. The kids grew so much and had learning experiences that were priceless, they still talk fondly of it. The work included winter in Tassie which was magical, non tourist season though cold! Learned to ski and snowboard on days off. I'd take the fam up mountains with me while I did my site, and we'd have picnics with the most incredible views... You don't need to take so much, because the valuable things are in the experience. The only thing we did to the van for some of the tracks encountered was undersling the axle which gave it better clearance. That simple van was honestly the best setup I've seen then or since.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Yep our older in laws, about 15 years older so a different generation, got the retirement RAM in Mad Max theme, all decked out at a 200K spend, then the mega dual axle van with all the comforts of a McMansion and all the modern tech... to do trips from van park to van park and have had all sorts of fun parking the beasts. Back in 2002 we did 18 month work trip fully remote with HJ60 and 16ft single axle bed/bunk setup pop top with 2 kids homeschooled, and managed to fit it all and have a blast despite it being simple - in fact we wanted to mail most of the stuff home and thought it would be better being even more simple. The kids grew so much and had learning experiences that were priceless, they still talk fondly of it. The work included winter in Tassie which was magical, non tourist season though cold! Learned to ski and snowboard on days off. I'd take the fam up mountains with me while I did my site, and we'd have picnics with the most incredible views... You don't need to take so much, because the valuable things are in the experience. The only thing we did to the van for some of the tracks encountered was undersling the axle which gave it better clearance. That simple van was honestly the best setup I've seen then or since.

'everyone should do things the way I do them' is a common theme amongst humans. We're very good at judging other people for their decisions and choices.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

'everyone should do things the way I do them' is a common theme amongst humans. We're very good at judging other people for their decisions and choices.

Would be pretty boring if we all had/did the same and then people would complain that everyones copying them, you cant win.

To be honest, I enjoy wandering around campgrounds and seeing the variety and talking about what makes them tick in that regard.

[jpd80]

So wondering if new F150 sales will also put a dent in the new Landcruiser, has the TT V6 yeah?
The battle of the turbo sixes or is a big capacity V8 more to punter’s liking

Buyers do really have plenty of choice today but yeah, LC and big Utes are all over $100,000 for anything good..

Every time I see a new Silverado or Ram, it’s amazing just how big they are, they look heaps wider than Ranger, Hilux

[galaxy xr8]

I prefer to drive my Mazda any day over my Territory, I also concur with what Daniel and others have already said with build quality and quality over all, Mazda is a whole different level of refinement compared to any Ford I’ve ever owned.

[FTE217]

huh and I was just with someone yesterday who got their new Genisis GV70 on the base's he hates the column shift in the corresponding MB's he looked into.
Its getting pretty petty about changing gears from the centre consol.
Christ what next