Councils Want to Use Speed Cameras!!!!!!

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Some poor girl gets cleaned up on the freeway going "to slow", (dont think she was watching the speedo either) and suddenly that makes driving in excess of the speed limit okay and the all the moronic law breaking of every truck driver out there ok? .

Great assumption about truck drivers, not all are moronic or law breaking, time to take the blinkers off your eyes.

Originally Posted by sudszy

get a grip.

Yep I think you should

Originally Posted by sudszy

Not typically a cause of most collisions, and it hardly needs me to bring it towards anyone's attention around here when it happens.

Better check your statistics, it is a high cause of collisions but as it goes against the wipe of 5 and speed kills mantra, it doesn't get aired openly by the government. Just do a FOI request from police and your local Office of road Safety, you will be surprised how many collisions don't have excessive speed as the cause.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

And you think 10 over is a major CAUSE for collisions?

Strawman with a question mark?

Ben, think you'll find all Ive ever said is the likelihood of collision increases with speed.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Better check your statistics, it is a high cause of collisions but as it goes against the wipe of 5 and speed kills mantra, it doesn't get aired openly by the government. Just do a FOI request from police and your local Office of road Safety, you will be surprised how many collisions don't have excessive speed as the cause.

perhaps you can suprise every thinking person in the country by producing stats which have the cause of a huge number of accidents as "vehicle going to slow"(which is not the same thing as excessive speed not being involved )....oh, there isnt such a list, silly me, govco must have buried it...

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Great assumption about truck drivers, not all are moronic or law breaking, time to take the blinkers off your eyes..

Did I say ALL truck drivers are morons? where?

Originally Posted by sudszy

all the moronic law breaking of every truck driver out there ok?

oh there, let me reword that, as it is not how I feel about all truck drivers

"the moronic law breaking of many truck drivers"

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Strawman with a question mark?

Ben, think you'll find all Ive ever said is the likelihood of collision increases with speed.

If you focused your attention on helping fix the CAUSES of road accidents it would be more help then just complaining about people not wiping off 5.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Ben73

If you focused your attention on helping fix the CAUSES of road accidents it would be more help then just complaining about people not wiping off 5.

So lets have a real close look at the causes of road accidents ???
Anyone gunna mention
Driver fatigue
Driver error
Mechanical failure
Our great roadways

lets have a wee look
IF the designated road speed limit is 100Ks
Does that mean using your own judgement
If the road is filled with washouts,potholes
You still drive to the limit

IF theres a massive traffic buildup in a 60 zone
Do ya just keep the car steady at 60Ks and push on thru ???
Most accidents arent from speeding beyond the designated amount
Its from not driving to the condition
And some desk jocky looking at the roadway and the crash
Assumes speeding to the condition was a factor
This is what we are fed
"Speeding" was a contributing factor
However you read it

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Mechanical failure

That one can be attributed to the government's lax stance on "road worthy" vehicles, I'm not talking about ******** stuff like "too low", "guages on the bonnet", "uncovered pod filter".

I'm talking tyres balder than a babies ***, no brake lights, cut springs etc.

Victoria is freakin' hopeless on vehicle standards.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by sudszy

perhaps you can suprise every thinking person in the country by producing stats which have the cause of a huge number of accidents as "vehicle going to slow"(which is not the same thing as excessive speed not being involved )....oh, there isnt such a list, silly me, govco must have buried it...

Why don't you get off your own lazy self appreciating buttocks and ask your local Road Safety Authority? What state are you in, I'll point you to the right mob. I never said the Government buried it or no such list, your assumption that is, I said they don't publicly wave it around but each state has a full list which is only accessible under FOI request which can take up to a year.

Also, good to see you clarify your comments about truck drivers.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Correct. The 1988 referendum to recognise local government in the Commonwealth Constitution failed. Consequently the status quo remains and the States (and Territories) are free to legislate for those residual powers (like local government) as they see fit. Local governments cannot make a decision or enact a local law that conflicts with state law.

There is a renewed push from local government at the moment to have another referendum to amend the Constitution to recognise local government as our legitimate third tier of government. The premise behind this is so that local governments can access federal government funding directly instead of dealing with the state governments. Noble intent, but the rest of the ramifications could be quite difficult, particularly for ratepayers of a Council area where the Council is dysfunctional and needs to be sacked.

As you can tell, I know just a little bit about this subject...

Councils need less power not more, personally I think we are over governed as it is.

As for cameras they are there for revenue purposes only. If they were genuine they would rip them all out put them in know black spot/high danger areas and sign post them to slow drivers down. As opposed to the current method of placement which is a location that will generate the highest dollar return.

[SEZ213]

I don't think councils will ever get this kind of authority...regardless of what some councillor wants, or thinks is best for his electorate. There will never be a consensus and all it will do is drag up the price of everything else in an electorate area.

I believe councils should have some powers, but not in the case of speed cameras, it's a bad idea, for more than the obvious reasoning of it being 'revenue raising'.

If it came with a lowering of land rates; more funding from the state or federal government, and a signed contract suggesting that it wouldn't be a money grabbing attempt, (instead a true focus on 'safety'), ie. hand held guns in suburban streets (like mine where they drive at anywhere up to 50k's over the limit) and not a box on the side of the road - it might have some leverage. But like everything else, the rules would change, unless the contract was indefinite.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

That one can be attributed to the government's lax stance on "road worthy" vehicles, I'm not talking about ******** stuff like "too low", "guages on the bonnet", "uncovered pod filter".

I'm talking tyres balder than a babies ***, no brake lights, cut springs etc.

Victoria is freakin' hopeless on vehicle standards.

Of topic i know,

Road laws and peoples interpretation are different

"Too low","guages on bonnet","Uncovered filter pod" are all unroadworthy things
Just as bad as bald tyres,no brake lights,cut springs

Different opinions why there different ,yes
But rules are rules

Same as the other day,had a dispute (for a better word)
That lifting a 4x4 doesnt effect its braking ???
Young whipper snipper argues it doesnt effect the braking
Im saying it does (moves the centre of gravity)
Hence why a body lift has to be appoved

I think the main thing that lacks in this country is
1 uniformed road law/code australia wide

[bf 40turbo]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

great post !

watch your speedo like a hawk and you wont get caught !

great advice...

although you may not notice the child who is about to run out on the road in front of you becuase you are keeping a close eye on your speed - at least your only doing 50 which means when you hit them, you limit the damage...

A-class post buddy ! A gold star AND an elephant stamp for you !

how do you not suffocate at night ?? seriously if maintaining a steady speed is so hard maybe driving isnt your thing hey, dunno how you passed your test? stick too the push bike in future if you are having too much trouble

big yellow stack hat licence to you buddy !

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by bungarra

The police enact laws which are issued under legislation and yes councils do have the right to monitor speed as Melville City Council is in discussion with WAPOL in regards to training.

The Police don't enact anything! As much as we'd all like to be cynical and say otherwise, we don't live in a Police State. Parliament passes Bills which then receive the Royal Assent of the Governor to become an enactment of the State.

By rights anyone can "monitor" speed as some Councils put those large roadside electronic sign boards out that tell you what your speed is, however they have no authority under law to enforce speed limits and in my view, never should.

As mentioned earlier, this push by the Australian Local Government Association for Constitutional recognition must fail. The whole premise of making it easier for Councils to access funding directly from the Commonwealth and cutting out the State "middlemen" is just a smokescreen for the real agenda, which is that Councils do not want State governments to keep "interfering" in their affairs by conducting amalgamations and sackings. However this little agenda is not in the public interest.

If anyone is interested, I will keep posting updates here as this sordid little scheme progresses.

[Ducati888]

Yes I'm interested. I'm particularly interested in how the Victorian State Government ratified Hawke's "Local Government Act" a year after the referendum failed. How is it legal?

I'm not, however, interested in the opinions rather than fact that have been bandied about without real references, by that guy who runs Aussie Speeding Fines.

[Jim Goose]

Councils love to flex themselves a lot, but the posturing is all show.
Trouble is the average person doesnt know councils are not covered in the constitution and some believe we have "rights" (as in a bill of rights).
If this referendum goes ahead one hopes people inform themselves and vote no! Councils will gain the same powers as the state if it ever gets through.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The Police don't enact anything! As much as we'd all like to be cynical and say otherwise, we don't live in a Police State. Parliament passes Bills which then receive the Royal Assent of the Governor to become an enactment of the State.

By rights anyone can "monitor" speed as some Councils put those large roadside electronic sign boards out that tell you what your speed is, however they have no authority under law to enforce speed limits and in my view, never should.

As mentioned earlier, this push by the Australian Local Government Association for Constitutional recognition must fail. The whole premise of making it easier for Councils to access funding directly from the Commonwealth and cutting out the State "middlemen" is just a smokescreen for the real agenda, which is that Councils do not want State governments to keep "interfering" in their affairs by conducting amalgamations and sackings. However this little agenda is not in the public interest.

If anyone is interested, I will keep posting updates here as this sordid little scheme progresses.

Take the council to court over your next parking fine and quote the constitution, bet you'll be thrown out of court and your fine increased. If you win, it will be on every news show and newspaper. Look forward to seeing it.

WA Rangers are empowered by state legislation as well as Local Laws, best you read the following links, especially the second one in regards to Police Act 1892, The Police Force regulations 1979, Road Traffic Act 1974 and Road Traffic Code 1975.

http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation...mlx&category=1

http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation...mlx&category=2

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by bf 40turbo

how do you not suffocate at night ?? seriously if maintaining a steady speed is so hard maybe driving isnt your thing hey, dunno how you passed your test? stick too the push bike in future if you are having too much trouble

big yellow stack hat licence to you buddy !

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Why don't you get off your own lazy self appreciating buttocks and ask your local Road Safety Authority? What state are you in, I'll point you to the right mob. I never said the Government buried it or no such list, your assumption that is, I said they don't publicly wave it around but each state has a full list which is only accessible under FOI request which can take up to a year.
.

I gather the personal abuse directed here is just your way of saying "Yeh, I made it up", and "yes Sudszy, there is no such list".

[Spudz27]

If the local council here got speed cameras, I would park my car and walk. Not because I am scared of being caught, but because I am scared they are too incompetent to get it right.

Now to everyone going on about speed etc, We all have our own habits and opinions and it is starting to look like we need to keep them to ourselves. As an Ambulance officer I could give some stats about what causes most accidents in my area but I am not going to as I don't want to help the arguing continue.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by SB076

Councils need less power not more, personally I think we are over governed as it is.

so why not get rid of the entire state government instead? we need a local governing body, and much of state's jobs could (and often are) done by federal.

[xp_ute]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

so why not get rid of the entire state government instead? we need a local governing body, and much of state's jobs could (and often are) done by federal.

i ask myself that question all the time

they keep telling us we have an ageing population and we wont have enough taxpayers in years to come....
surely getting rid of one level of government would save billions

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by bf 40turbo

how do you not suffocate at night ?? seriously if maintaining a steady speed is so hard maybe driving isnt your thing hey, dunno how you passed your test? stick too the push bike in future if you are having too much trouble

big yellow stack hat licence to you buddy !

and if strictly maintaining a steady speed is so important to you that it seems to be the be all and end all of your arguement, maybe driving isn't for YOU !

tell me this; posted speed limit says "80" (let's say that this section of road had a previous speed limit of 100 for the previous 30 years). For some reason you are THE worlds best driver and can maintain a speed of exactly 72km while travelling over inclines and declines.
The reason you are travelling at 72km is so that you allow for the 10% tolerance built into speedometers as per ADR's so that you don't get caught travelling over the posted speed limit of 80 because you believe that maintaining a constant speed is critical to not being caught speeding as speeding is clearly unsafe.
As a result of your safe driving, there are 8 cars following you, with more approaching - all congested.
What do YOU do in this situation ?

I would appreciate your honest, serious answer please.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

and if strictly maintaining a steady speed is so important to you that it seems to be the be all and end all of your arguement, maybe driving isn't for YOU !

tell me this; posted speed limit says "80" (let's say that this section of road had a previous speed limit of 100 for the previous 30 years). For some reason you are THE worlds best driver and can maintain a speed of exactly 72km while travelling over inclines and declines.
The reason you are travelling at 72km is so that you allow for the 10% tolerance built into speedometers as per ADR's so that you don't get caught travelling over the posted speed limit of 80 because you believe that maintaining a constant speed is critical to not being caught speeding as speeding is clearly unsafe.
As a result of your safe driving, there are 8 cars following you, with more approaching - all congested.
What do YOU do in this situation ?

I would appreciate your honest, serious answer please.

10% tolerance "built into speedos" as per adrs, no.
The regulation is they are not allowed to overead by more than 10%, not that they have to be out by 10%! the chances of a speedo on a bf overeading by 10%, multiplied by a very conscious law abiding person not realising it........close to zero Id of thought.

and what is your argument? that the drivers following at 72km/h wont be able to get past and therefore will then perform suicidal overtaking maneouvres?

Surely all you are not suggesting that there are people out there that are incapable of driving at 10% below the posted limit even when they know that there is all these thousands of vehicles with speedos that overead by 10%, your argument surely should be to remove these impatient sods?(we can test for that sort of underdeveloped brain very easily), but hangon, the road was once rated to 100km/h, should be plenty of opportunity even for these suicidal maniacs to overtake at 80km/h.

[Brendo_GSUte]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

and if strictly maintaining a steady speed is so important to you that it seems to be the be all and end all of your arguement, maybe driving isn't for YOU !

tell me this; posted speed limit says "80" (let's say that this section of road had a previous speed limit of 100 for the previous 30 years). For some reason you are THE worlds best driver and can maintain a speed of exactly 72km while travelling over inclines and declines.
The reason you are travelling at 72km is so that you allow for the 10% tolerance built into speedometers as per ADR's so that you don't get caught travelling over the posted speed limit of 80 because you believe that maintaining a constant speed is critical to not being caught speeding as speeding is clearly unsafe.
As a result of your safe driving, there are 8 cars following you, with more approaching - all congested.
What do YOU do in this situation ?

I would appreciate your honest, serious answer please.

Ive been reading this between you two and "bf 40turbo" has the point of if its the speed limit its the bottom line. while breakable its a rule and there so order is maintained if it wasnt you would have people doing 100- 80km/hr round schools and cities etc. Sorry to sound dramatic but it would happen and you know some teen out in mum and dads car would do it.

I think your distain for lowerig of speed limits from previously high vaules to lower comes from the fact that as CBD's and citys grow the traffic around them gets denser and there fore collision probability goes up so the easiest solution is to slow things down. Also people are more inclined to sue so they have a good defense if they show fore thought in a certain situation.

I think what bf 40 is trying to get at is if you choose to speed dont whine when u get caught... or jump to sue next oppertunity.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I gather the personal abuse directed here is just your way of saying "Yeh, I made it up", and "yes Sudszy, there is no such list".

What ever, you obviously aren't able to find your own information. I asked you the question of what state you were in to help point you in the right direction, but you couldn't be bothered answering that one. Obviously, you have something to hide if you think I was attacking you.

Most of your comments in threads are negative and attack anyone who doesn't support Govco as you put it. Maybe take a chill pill before you have a heart attack.

[bf 40turbo]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

and if strictly maintaining a steady speed is so important to you that it seems to be the be all and end all of your arguement, maybe driving isn't for YOU !

tell me this; posted speed limit says "80" (let's say that this section of road had a previous speed limit of 100 for the previous 30 years). For some reason you are THE worlds best driver and can maintain a speed of exactly 72km while travelling over inclines and declines.
The reason you are travelling at 72km is so that you allow for the 10% tolerance built into speedometers as per ADR's so that you don't get caught travelling over the posted speed limit of 80 because you believe that maintaining a constant speed is critical to not being caught speeding as speeding is clearly unsafe.
As a result of your safe driving, there are 8 cars following you, with more approaching - all congested.
What do YOU do in this situation ?

I would appreciate your honest, serious answer please.

if i was the worlds best driver i would have my speedo calibrated to be accurate and wouldnt need to drive at 72 id be driving at 80 holding nobody up in the process with all the money i save on speeding fines i can easily afford this

if people behind me are running late i would suggest that they leave earlier and plan their journey a little better to avoid delays

is that a serious enough response for you ??

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by bungarra

. Obviously, you have something to hide if you think I was attacking you

Originally Posted by bungarra

Why don't you get off your own lazy self appreciating buttocks .

So you dont think that is a personal attack, I suppose you've run that line past your boss? and what exactly am I/could I be hiding that justifies your abuse?

Originally Posted by bungarra

What ever, you obviously aren't able to find your own information. I asked you the question of what state you were in to help point you in the right direction, but you couldn't be bothered answering that one.

too right I couldnt be bothered answering, Ive no intention of going on a wild goose chase chasing. you are the one who claims that people driving too slowly are a huge cause of accidents, I say bs, produce some evidence, but you cant, even in your state would be a bonus, you then claim it will take a year to get....more bs, and then its my problem for being lazy.....

Originally Posted by bungarra

Most of your comments in threads are negative and attack anyone who doesn't support Govco as you put it. Maybe take a chill pill before you have a heart attack.

Im negative because i dont join in with the faster is good, 10km/h faster is insignificant , checking your speedo is dangerous anti logic drivel that is pushed around here ......guilty.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

lol I never said I did not realize when I am driving down a hill but simply that it is easy for your speed to go up by a small amount unless your watching the speedo making sure you apply the brakes enough to stay at 50

Maybe for me in a sub conscious way I do think I should have to brake down a slight hill to stay at 50 as I don't see it unsafe if my speed increases to say 60

So when it is raining you see no problem in going 10km/h faster than the posted limit?

you aren't saying that? and drive to the conditions otherwise?

well it would be safer than going 10km/h faster down a hill that is steep enough to have caused your vehicle to have sped up from 50 to 60km/h without you changing your throttle position because you are asleep?

You do realise that going down hill causes two problems, you are also fighting the force of gravity to stop or maneouvre the car as well as its momentum and that your grip with the road is reduced due to the slope.

Next time you are going downhill, think about driving to the conditions here too!

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by sudszy

So when it is raining you see no problem in going 10km/h faster than the posted limit?

you aren't saying that? and drive to the conditions otherwise?

well it would be safer than going 10km/h faster down a hill that is steep enough to have caused your vehicle to have sped up from 50 to 60km/h without you changing your throttle position because you are asleep?

You do realise that going down hill causes two problems, you are also fighting the force of gravity to stop or maneouvre the car as well as its momentum and that your grip with the road is reduced due to the slope.

Next time you are going downhill, think about driving to the conditions here too!

Are you 90 years old?

Are you a Bogan?

Or are you just a fool because your replies to peoples statements are very illogical to say the least & if you want to drive around watching your speedo instead of the road to make sure you don't go 1 or 2 k's over the speed for that area is dangerous, foolish, annoying & a n a l.

Now run away or in your case walk slowly.

PS: I just looked over all your posts in the short time you have been a member & almost every one of them is a whinge or an attack on someone or someone's views & you seem like an anti car enthusiast to me so why are you here?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

Are you 90 years old?

Are you a Bogan?

Or are you just a fool because your replies to peoples statements are very illogical to say the least & if you want to drive around watching your speedo instead of the road to make sure you don't go 1 or 2 k's over the speed for that area is dangerous, foolish, annoying & a n a l.

Now run away or in your case walk slowly.

PS: I just looked over all your posts in the short time you have been a member & almost every one of them is a whinge or an attack on someone or someone's views & you seem like an anti car enthusiast to me so why are you here?

Yes, when logic and reasoning is absent, the personal attack and strawman arguments come spewing forth.

No, Ive never said watch you speedo instead of the road, but Ive made a lot of noise about what people should do if they cant maintain their speed.

It aint that hard, I drove a car for three years on the highway and in the city that didnt have a working speedo, tut, tut, no ticket for going too fast or to slow, its not really that hard.

Get a feel for what you are doing at the wheel, people like yourself that cant feel their car getting 20% faster, yeh changing from 50 to 60km/h down a hill that you didnt notice either, obviously need other aids, the answer isnt to relax the laws to accommodate for your ineptitude.

Anti Car enthusiast?, they probably dont come more enthusiastic than me, especially when it comes to 60s and 70s Australian cars, but you think that should go hand in hand with a disrespect for: the laws of the road, preservation of human life and a proud ignorance of vehicle dynamics, then guilty as charged.