Cars and the future....... - Page 2

RPO83 · 13-12-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

the current merc s class is running a hybrid system similar to the KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) used in F1.

they had a car that would brake automatically, using sensors etc to keep a safe distance from the object in front if it was moving or bring the car to a halt if it was a stationary object.

they decided to give a demonstration in a factory and invited all the bigwigs etc. long story short, something failed and the car slammed into the wall... woops. red faces that day. apparently being inside the factory affected the sensors - so they claimed. not sure if that has been developed further.

i know they have 'seeing' headlights and stuff now.

Nothing failed that day as the system wasn't turned on, you can read up about it all elsewhere. I've been using the distronic system for a few years now and so far haven't had any incidents. The yardstick has been the S Class for the past few decades but the time between the technology being fitted to standard vehicles is shrinking dramatically.

MO · 13-12-2009, 11:36 PM

@trippytaka,I'm on about those whose nearest town can be 400/500 klm away,in the real Australia.

Yellow_Festiva · 13-12-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

@yellow_festiva,easy to see you've never lived outside of the big smoke,you'll need more than 200klm range out of your electric car.

Oh clever... And what % of people do live outside the 'big smoke'? And of those people who do live outsite the 'big smoke' what percentge of those travel more than 200km each way to work...

Wonder if it falls in the 10% I had left out of the general population for variables such as you and others have mentioned?

Yes, but all of us need a vehicle that covers all possible conditions and worst case senarios 'just in case'...

Yellow_Festiva · 13-12-2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

@trippytaka,I'm on about those whose nearest town can be 400/500 klm away,in the real Australia.

And these people will all be driving to that nearest town on a daily basis for work?

I still fail to see what you're getting at.

FORD5 · 14-12-2009, 12:04 AM

all these new cars have great features but when i think about it, it's just more things to go wrong and more faults waiting to happen, nothing like a simple tough old XY GT falcon

Franco Cozzo · 14-12-2009, 12:05 AM

I live out in the country and Dad travels about 80km each way depending on which office he is at, if say electric cars ended up coming down to reasonable prices, say <$30,000 and had bigger ranges (1000km a charge) Dad would be in one in a flash, all he cares about is getting from A - B using the least amount of fuel in something safe.

XR6Runner · 14-12-2009, 12:35 AM

@ Yellow_Festiva...

Thought about truck drivers?

What about people driving over 1000k's for holidays every year. That's a lot of people.

I sure wouldn't want to have to stop every 200km's for over a couple hours just to let the batteries charge to squeeze out another 200km's before having to do it again, just to get to my holiday destination.

What about taxi drivers? They do a lot more than 200km's a day. Couriers, post deliveries, ect...

With electric cars doing only 200kms max, its just too impractical to mass introduce it as a petrol car replacement.

mik · 14-12-2009, 12:45 AM

according to tesla their estimation with current best batteries , (excuse the pun) at 5 years use the range will down to 70%, the range most of these mobs have quoted would be best case scenario, still not a patch on the internal combustion engine imo.

Yellow_Festiva · 14-12-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

@ Yellow_Festiva...

Thought about truck drivers?

What about people driving over 1000k's for holidays every year. That's a lot of people.

I sure wouldn't want to have to stop every 200km's for over a couple hours just to let the batteries charge to squeeze out another 200km's before having to do it again, just to get to my holiday destination.

What about taxi drivers? They do a lot more than 200km's a day. Couriers, post deliveries, ect...

With electric cars doing only 200kms max, its just too impractical to mass introduce it as a petrol car replacement.

I actually make reference to the fact that electric won't be viable for bulky goods transport... but then again, if we had a good rail system, the amount of trucks on the road would be greatly reduced.

Why are we getting back to 1000km road trips and other driving situations that cover such a small % of the drivers / situations on the road?

What I said DOES NOT cover EVERY ONE, stop quoting me like I used "100%" and "all".....

Rather than tell me about taxi's, couriers, that 1000km road trip that happens once in a blue moon by a miniscule % of the population etc, ask yourself how many people drive to work alone in a car day in and day out? How many will now choose to fly to places that used to be traditional road trip fare due to the low costs of flights? How many people will do no more that 100km a day as an average?

I see what you're saying... I have done countless 1,000km road trips, driven here, there and everywhere etc etc, and clock up an average of 25,000km a year, which is much higher that the average driver. Why? caus I like to drive. But having said that, I'm certainly not the norm.

Where I work, no one likes to do long trips in a car. During the past 6 holiday breaks, there have been 3 dozen long distance family trips to Melb / Adelaide / Bris etc. Only 2 were in a car, the rest were by train or plane.

The passenger car of the future will be small, 100% electric, and will prob cater to 2-3 people max in terms of passengers. These drivers will soon not care about V8 burble, towing capacity, 0-100 times. They will care about how fast their onboard computer can access live traffic updates, they will care about how many electrical aides are there to stop them having an accident. They will care more for the fact that they can have their I tunes, as well as (recycled) plastic panels that can be removed and replaced to make their personal vehicle 'unique'.

Look back 20 years ago and see how different things were in what we drove and how far we were happy to go.

The changes in the past 20 years will be doubled in the next 20 due to the 'green' angle, rising populations both here and in 3rd world coutries that will drift into 2nd world consumers wanting what we have now as 1st worlders.

Cheers.

dave351cid · 14-12-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

No you won't, there will be an attatchment you can add to give you the V8 rumble.

can i order mine with a top fueler sound track for the traffic lights, a nice deep clevo rumble for cruising, and quiet festiva sound for going past the nieghbours when i come home late at night.

RSgerry · 14-12-2009, 02:37 AM

the problem with everyone driving electric cars that hasnt been covered yet is how we will be able to get electricity to those cars to make them run. some posters have noted that alternative sources of electricity will be needed as coal powered power stations would completely negate any benefit that electric cars woiuld create.

however, not only do we need cleaner power, we will need lots more of it. as i understand it, most states are just about at the limit of electricity production. the huge rise in airconditioners has seen to that. quite simply, everyone plugging their cars in at the same time when they get home from work will create more demand than can be met and will cause huge problems.

this doesnt even cover the infrastructure to transmit the electricity. i know NSW has massive problems with the power grid, but the government wont do anything about it (no governments do). put simply, it is politically more beneficial to build a new school, road, hospital etc than it is to replace old power lines. nobody notices the new power lines but everyone notices that shiny new building. it would take a government witl real balls to make this commitment, and there is no such thing as that...

Big Mike · 14-12-2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave289

my mates audi s5 has a fob which you leave in your pocket ,the cars opens automatically when you approach ,you just sit, press a button and she starts up, no keys ,nothing ,then a button to stop, he then gets out walks away and it locks when he is about a few meteres away.

I haven't read this whole thread, but do you realise the el cheapo BASE MODEL Mitsubishi Lancer, already has STANDARD this "smart key" technology, automatic headlights (started standard on the 1957 Cadillac Fleetwood), automatic wipers, and in other countries a beautiful CVT auto?

Most people don't - but even a Lancer, a generic shopping kart, has these things Falcon and Commodore lack. As I type this I just realised auto headlights are starting to come into the Falcon/Commodore ranges - but not sure at what level they're standard?

The idea that an electric car is too quiet is rubbish - as all modern cars are quiet now, and you can only hear the tyre noise as they approach in a carpark slowly, etc. - so you wont have stupid sountracks to make it sound like something its not. I see we have some plug-in electric cars on the market already, and a bunch of hybrids, but I'm not really sure where the world is going with that stuff - I think we will rely on internal combustion engines for quite some time, as they become more and more efficient in design and implementation.

There's an old Lincoln I read up on recently with electric motors - not sure if its one at each wheel, or just one on the front of the diff (replacing the tailshaft) but it has a small diesel engine that generates power to the batteries, starts and stops when it needs to, the batteries power the car. Its exactly like the diesel/electric trains, which are amongst the most efficient vehicles in the world - and have been around for donkeys years.

merlin · 14-12-2009, 08:54 AM

^^^ My BF2 XR6T has auto headlights (though they are not sensitive enough - as in they take about 20 seconds of driving in a tunnel before they turn on - so I don't use them).

So do people think Hydrogen or electric will be the way to go? I much prefer Hydrogen personally - BMW proved it can work - all it needs is the infrastructure.

R.e. The sound electric cars make - well I think it will just be something we get used to gradually and I'm sure there will be some "cool" thing you can do equivalent to a modern day blow off valve - venting excess electricity to the road between gear shifts creating a blue spark under the car??? :togo: who knows...

Other tech - I think this radar cruise stuff will take off - I imagine it could become like autopilot in a plane - 90% of the time you will just set the onboard GPS to where you want to go, hit autopilot and sit back for the ride to work. This SUNA traffic system is taking off now as well (I use it quite a bit) - I'm sure this will improve and be integrated into every car and every major road so the autopilot will always take you the fastest way and avoid traffic. The big question is will the government allow manual over-riding of the system (not just in emergencies) as surely auto-pilot will be mandated to never go above the speedlimit.

I also think cars will become uncrashable with onboard AI, super ESP and radar cruise simply over-riding all human error.

trippytaka · 14-12-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

@trippytaka,I'm on about those whose nearest town can be 400/500 klm away,in the real Australia.

Concessions have to be made for country areas. Absolutely. Until the technology can catch up, they should be allowed to carry on using what we have at the moment. This is a city solution at the moment. And to be honest, that's where the problem is coming from... too many cars, traffic congestion causing more pollution etc.

This is also a solution I see working as a "second week car". If we can get city cars EVs, subsidised and only costing 5-10k with tax benefits etc, then we can have people driving to and from work in them. Then those same families use their second car, petrol at the moment, hybrid in the short term future (until EV can offer longer range) for longer trips on the weekends.

trippytaka · 14-12-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

^^^ My BF2 XR6T has auto headlights (though they are not sensitive enough - as in they take about 20 seconds of driving in a tunnel before they turn on - so I don't use them).

So do people think Hydrogen or electric will be the way to go? I much prefer Hydrogen personally - BMW proved it can work - all it needs is the infrastructure.

R.e. The sound electric cars make - well I think it will just be something we get used to gradually and I'm sure there will be some "cool" thing you can do equivalent to a modern day blow off valve - venting excess electricity to the road between gear shifts creating a blue spark under the car??? :togo: who knows...

Other tech - I think this radar cruise stuff will take off - I imagine it could become like autopilot in a plane - 90% of the time you will just set the onboard GPS to where you want to go, hit autopilot and sit back for the ride to work. This SUNA traffic system is taking off now as well (I use it quite a bit) - I'm sure this will improve and be integrated into every car and every major road so the autopilot will always take you the fastest way and avoid traffic. The big question is will the government allow manual over-riding of the system (not just in emergencies) as surely auto-pilot will be mandated to never go above the speedlimit.

I also think cars will become uncrashable with onboard AI, super ESP and radar cruise simply over-riding all human error.

Hydrogen is too expensive at the moment to store and convert. It is also highly volatile/. In the future I think it can work. I'd love to see a mix of technologies brought in.

Why can't we have a range of technologies put into production? The problem we are in today stems from the monopoly owned by Oil and Coal. We need, a market where the consumers and performance of the technology dictates which one survives.

And again, for all the people arguing about the taxi drivers, truckies, country people etc... let's start with the private vehicles (much of them on business fleets!) that drive under 50km a day. This will make a massive difference and force evolution of the industry, lower prices due to mass production and high demand etc. Then we can address the other areas.

trippytaka · 14-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSgerry

the problem with everyone driving electric cars that hasnt been covered yet is how we will be able to get electricity to those cars to make them run. some posters have noted that alternative sources of electricity will be needed as coal powered power stations would completely negate any benefit that electric cars woiuld create.

however, not only do we need cleaner power, we will need lots more of it. as i understand it, most states are just about at the limit of electricity production. the huge rise in airconditioners has seen to that. quite simply, everyone plugging their cars in at the same time when they get home from work will create more demand than can be met and will cause huge problems.

this doesnt even cover the infrastructure to transmit the electricity. i know NSW has massive problems with the power grid, but the government wont do anything about it (no governments do). put simply, it is politically more beneficial to build a new school, road, hospital etc than it is to replace old power lines. nobody notices the new power lines but everyone notices that shiny new building. it would take a government witl real balls to make this commitment, and there is no such thing as that...

Give our farmers a second income then! FFS why aren't we giving government subsidies for this kind of thing? FArmers across the world are making a lot of money supplying GREEN electricity to the grid
ARTICLE

**Raptor** · 14-12-2009, 11:41 AM

Paradigms will change.

We won't need quick charge batteries as they'll be generic and exchanged as a unit at the local servo. Probably like a drivethrough carwash, batteries will drop out/in from underneath, you may even be able to wash the car at the same time ;)

I won't need to purchase my own electric commuter car(s). They will be thrown in as part of the 'plan' I purchase from the electric companies, just like mobile phones are today from the phone companies. At the end of the plan I'll hand it back to be recycled and get a shiney new updated one.

For my own enjoyment and for longer family trips I'll still own a petrol/lpg/diesel/hybrid powered car. It'll be my pride and joy and only used sparingly, doing much fewer kms than cars of today.

The elctricity to power the batteries in these commuter plan cars will increasingly come from clean/green renewable sources (and I don't include nuclear in that mix).

Society will restructure so we live much closer to where we work, making walking or cycling more attractive and the need for anything more than 100km range much less of an issue.

rag top · 14-12-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

Yeah, and it'll be an mp3 file built into the cars' stereo. And it will suck

:

but the aftermarket tuners will have updates to include a range of extras, solid lifters, gear drives, turbo, superchargers, quad webbers,...

**Raptor** · 14-12-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Give our farmers a second income then! FFS why aren't we giving government subsidies for this kind of thing? FArmers across the world are making a lot of money supplying GREEN electricity to the grid
ARTICLE

While it's true there is no National scheme (sign the petition) each state will have something similar up and running for solar generated power come Jan 2010, ie. within the next few weeks; http://www.energymatters.com.au/gove...edintariff.php

trippytaka · 14-12-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

While it's true there is no National scheme (sign the petition) each state will have something similar up and running for solar generated power come Jan 2010, ie. within the next few weeks; http://www.energymatters.com.au/gove...edintariff.php

Bloody good to hear. With all the drought and hardship of the changing markets (imported fruits etc) I hope the concessions and incentives are good for the bush to jump on board. This is a win win for everyone.

EDIT*** Signed!

auxr · 14-12-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave351cid

can i order mine with a top fueler sound track for the traffic lights, a nice deep clevo rumble for cruising, and quiet festiva sound for going past the nieghbours when i come home late at night.

Yes - and you also may have a plastic shaker to place on the bonnet that will also be battery operated.

Seriously though - vehicles of the future will be changing due to climate change regulations that will eventually be put in place - for my 2c worth, there will still be a mixture of hybrids,diesel, possibly hydrogen mixed together with a higher ratio of electric powered vehicles.

Car producers, though, are in the market for profit - through innovation, better engineering & technology, these things eventually filter down to the mass market - better product, cheaper running costs that appeals to a market - then equates to movement of product.

On the other hand, oil & gas reserves in my view, will still be powering vehicles well into the next century - or until the use of oil derivatives are outlawed.

trippytaka · 14-12-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auxr

On the other hand, oil & gas reserves in my view, will still be powering vehicles well into the next century - or until the use of oil derivatives are outlawed.

I think if we can reduce the pressure on the resources we should be able to see this. If pressure keeps going the way it is, there will be some trouble with access to the resources... some serious conflicts methinks.

dave289 · 16-12-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

I think if we can reduce the pressure on the resources we should be able to see this. If pressure keeps going the way it is, there will be some trouble with access to the resources... some serious conflicts methinks.

You seem to be dribbling again mate.

Some people say that there is not enough range on some of the electric cars

on offer and yes this is true but in 5 ,10 or even 20 years we should have batteries that will last for maybe 4oo or 500 kays,maybe even a 1000 kays.

dave351cid · 17-12-2009, 01:36 AM

stumbled across this info about new battery developments while looking for solar hot water info.

http://www.energymatters.com.au/inde...article_id=690

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/d...er-120709.html

paper batteries....hmm.. in the future we wont be asking how many plates in a batter but how many pages or reams.