Top Gear: Nissan GT-R vs. Ferrari 430 Scuderia

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by puts99

Yes, you're right. Shiro Nakamura, head designer, is not Japanese at all. Can't believe you're claiming the Nissan GTR is not Japanese. Which magazine did you steal that opinion from?

No magazine. I haven't read a magazine about it yet... :togo:

I'd expect the head designer from a Japanese company to be Japanese. But unlike every GT-R from 1969's KPGC10 to 1999's R34, the new one has more European stuff in it then anything else. Almost enough bits and pieces to call it the Renault GT-R. :

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The French made the engine (Renault V6 from the Vel satis)

Is that why the French source the engine from Nissan? : The Vel Satis uses a Nissan engine, a Japanese engine, it's not the other way around.

[Dave_au]

I agree that the GTR is still a Japanese car. It's built by Nissan in Japan, with a Japanese engine. Simple, it's Japanese. Also most global brands have some form of international design analysis, it's good to see that the new GTR is no exception.

Steffo, for your comments, the new Corolla was styled by Toyota's french skunkworks - does this make the new Corolla french? What about an Ipod? Their made in China but designed by Apple in California!

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate...119_902449.htm

Global Design Inspiration

Two years ago, Ghosn and Shiro Nakamura, Nissan's chief creative officer, directed the three design studios in Europe, North America, and Japan to dream up the next version of the vehicle, which will go on sale in June, 2008. "The GT-R is unique because it is not simply a copy of a European-designed supercar," says Nakamura, a spry man behind thin, rimless glasses. "It had to really reflect [Japanese] culture," he adds.

"Japan owned the name, the rich heritage," agrees Bruce Campbell, Nissan's vice-president for design in the U.S. "But we were much more rebellious, and the Europeans were not so reverent of the vehicle's long history." So while the new version retains some of the elements of the original GT-R (e.g., the rounded tail lamps), the final design was an international affair.

In an era of supercars from Aston Martin and Ferrari, with their swooping forms and organic lines, the new GT-R is unabashedly boxy, with thick, chunky rear haunches and flared front-wheel well arches. According to Nakamura, the inspiration for the model's square lines and high-tech vents came from Gundam, the Japanese anime series featuring giant robots.

American designers contributed a more rounded set of contours on the rear three-quarters of the vehicle, softening the stark, flat trunk lines drawn in Japan. The European designers, meanwhile, influenced the roofline of the car, adding a hard kick in the C-pillar unlike in any other current Nissan vehicle. "It was truly a global event," says Campbell of the design process. "We honored the [car's] Japanese DNA, and now it's a global offering."

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Is that why the French source the engine from Nissan? : The Vel Satis uses a Nissan engine, a Japanese engine, it's not the other way around.

Got proof?

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Almost enough bits and pieces to call it the Renault GT-R. :

As long as we can call the new Renault coupe the Renault Z.

[Fev]

hehe awesome they took styling cues from Gundam.. should have gotten them from Neon genesis evangelion.. that would have been cooler

[perrys]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...08_nissan_gt_r

Quote:
Overall, the GT-R's exterior design pays homage to modern Japanese culture. Hasegawa admits to harnessing his countrymen's fixation with all things futuristic and high tech-such as Sony's Aibo robotic dog and "Mobile Suit Gundam," a popular Japanese cartoon about giant robot warriors. "The 'coolness' of machines like Aibo and Gundam comes from the fact that they're inorganic, yet made to show movements of something truly alive," clarifies Hasegawa. "We wanted to infuse something similar into the design of the GT-R, which is also a machine."

[perrys]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Got proof?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine
VQ35DE
The 3.5 L (3498 cc) VQ35DE is used in many modern Nissan vehicles. It uses the same block found in the VQ30DE, but adds variable valve timing. It has a bore of 95.5 mm and stroke of 81.4 mm. Output ranges from 240 hp to 301 hp (179 to 228 kW) and 246 ft·lbf to 287 ft·lbf (334 to 390 Nm).

The VQ35DE is built in Iwaki, Japan and Decherd, TN. It was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list from 2002 through to 2007.

...
JDM and other markets

Nismo Z S-Tune GT (295 hp) (VQ35DE S1 engine)
2000–present Nissan Elgrand (245 hp)
2001–present Nissan Stagea (272 hp)
2001–present Renault Vel Satis (241 hp)

[B-Series]

Looks like steffo has been eating sour grapes again. He drives Renault :... enough said.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by perrys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine
VQ35DE
The 3.5 L (3498 cc) VQ35DE is used in many modern Nissan vehicles. It uses the same block found in the VQ30DE, but adds variable valve timing. It has a bore of 95.5 mm and stroke of 81.4 mm. Output ranges from 240 hp to 301 hp (179 to 228 kW) and 246 ft·lbf to 287 ft·lbf (334 to 390 Nm).

The VQ35DE is built in Iwaki, Japan and Decherd, TN. It was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list from 2002 through to 2007.

...
JDM and other markets

Nismo Z S-Tune GT (295 hp) (VQ35DE S1 engine)
2000–present Nissan Elgrand (245 hp)
2001–present Nissan Stagea (272 hp)
2001–present Renault Vel Satis (241 hp)

Greeeaaat proof that is. It doesn't say who made the engine, doesn't even mention that it also lives in the Laguna and Clio V6, and hasn't even got considerable sources (it has one).

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

Looks like steffo has been eating sour grapes again. He drives Renault :... enough said.

And your point? What exactly do you drive?

[perrys]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Vel_Satis
-Nissan-sourced 24-valve, 3.5-liter V6 (also used in a variety of Nissan models including the Altima, Murano, 350Z/Fairlady, and Infiniti G, M and FX series))

[MITCHAY]

Who the hell cares who made the engine? Fact is it is an awesome car and the majority will always consider the GT-R to be Japanese.

[XR Martin]

The problem with Clarkson's Ford GT was not the car itself, it was the security/alarm system that had to be installed for it to be insurable in the UK. He said himself that was the undoing of the car, and all the problems related to that.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Got proof?

I think it would be harder for you to prove that the VQ engine IS a french engine, so please, I will allow you the honours to prove that the VQ engine is derived from a Renault V6.

Incidently, from what I have read tonight, Renault stopped making V6 engines after the merger with Nissan, so that might help as a starting point.

[Dave_au]

Also quite funny that Ward's Auto magazine has awarded Nissan's VQ as one of the top 10 engines for the last 13 years. Surely, if it was a Renault as you claim, the prize belongs to Renault and not Nissan

Originally Posted by Ward's Auto [url

http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_story_behind_wards_5/index.html][/url]
Wards AutoWorld Logo

Nissan VQ Still Leads V-6 Pack
By Bill Visnic
Ward's AutoWorld, Oct 1, 2007 12:00 PM Email a link to this articleEmail a link to this article Printer-friendly version of this articlePrinter-friendly version of this article

The Ward's 10 Best Engines competition celebrates 13 years of recognizing outstanding powertrain development. In this eighth of a series, Ward's delves into the development process behind Nissan's benchmark VQ V-6. Watch for features on the other 2007 winners throughout the year.

THIRTEEN YEARS AND FOUR GENERATIONS after its U.S. launch for the '95 model year, a single word summarizes the enormous impact of Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.'s VQ architecture: benchmark.

Don't ask us — although we think 13 consecutive years of Ward's 10 Best Engines awards is a certain implicit endorsement.

No, ask anyone. They don't have to be in the powertrain sector, or even in the auto business. Anyone with any octane in their veins knows Nissan's VQ is the gold standard of V-6s.

Introduced as a 3.0L 60-degree DOHC architecture, specifications for the first VQ — 190 hp and 205 lb.-ft. (278 Nm) of torque — were healthy but not necessarily overwhelming in its day. But the VQ's design brief — an attack on friction and mass, not to mention noise, vibration and harshness — made the VQ wholly special.

The execution was highlighted by a microfinished crankshaft and camshafts, a fairly radical manufacturing trick for high-volume engines. The VQ's valvetrain was a remarkable 20 lbs. (9 kg) lighter than that of the iron-block 3.0L V-6 the VQ replaced, and the entire engine more than 108 lbs. (48 kg) lighter.

The VQ became a benchmark not because it was muscle-bound, but because of brilliant throttle response, and it revved more effortlessly, more blithely, than any V-6 before.

Successive VQ generations brought variable valve timing, a displacement increase to 3.5L ('02), a less-convincing 4.0L light-truck variant ('05) and myriad structural and component upgrades mixed in along the way.

For this year, Nissan engineers promised a major upgrade. It was presented in the form of the VQ35HR, for High Response and High Revolution. Yes, even more revs (and refinement, by the way) from an engine for which free-revving was a prime attribute.

Engine enhancements for the new fourth generation include a crankcase ladder frame, a new cylinder-bore design and specially extended connecting rods.

The new VQ35HR's performance has been markedly upgraded as well: The redline is extended to a delicious (and productive) 7,500 rpm.

Also contributing to the new power and refinement enhancements are a higher compression ratio (10.6:1 vs. 10.3:1 for the third-generation VQ35, which remains in service in some applications), straighter intake runners and a symmetrical twin intake-plenum design, as well as exhaust manifolds incorporating three equal-length pipes.

All the attention to the intake and exhaust routing, Nissan engineers say, came from the goal of achieving a more emotional sound when the engine revs, and a linear sound that correlates to throttle opening and acceleration rate.

They present scatter-chart evidence that shows an improvement in clarity of “desirable” sound and a reduction in high-frequency noise. They add that the design changes reduce intake “resistance” by 18%.

Because of the required change in deck height (height of the engine block from crankshaft centerline to the top of the bare block) for the new VQ35HR, a second plant was constructed at the company's highly automated Iwaki engine facility in Japan.

Happily, but not coincidentally, the changes for the new fourth-generation VQ also result in approximately 10% better fuel economy, according to Nissan's figures.

Engineers say the improved efficiency is due largely to the advanced initiatives to further reduce friction in what already is an engine layout designed with low friction in mind. The previously mentioned longer connecting rods attach to asymmetrically skirted pistons to reduce side forces on the piston, and other measures also cut friction.

But Nissan engineers are particularly proud of one unique new component, seemingly innocuous but industriously clever: a new “hydrogen-free diamond-like carbon” (DLC) treatment of the valve lifters that reduces friction with the rocker arm.

This nano-technology, says Nissan, allows the coating to better bind with the engine oil, creating a durable film on the surface of the valve lifter that cuts friction by 40%. Nissan technical material suggests other engine surfaces — specifically, piston rings and piston pins — are potential targets for the DLC treatment, which the company says eventually could reduce overall engine friction by 25%.

Nissan says that, along with oil-incorporating special additives, the VQ35HR is the world's first application of the technology.

Next for the VQ V-6 is the enlargement to 3.7L, already launched this year for the all-new Infiniti G37 coupe. Where the VQ35HR currently tops out at 306 hp, the new 3.7L displacement is rated at 330 hp.

Apart from the displacement bump, a major boost comes from the all-new VVEL (Variable Valve Event and Lift) enhancement to the existing Continuous Valve Timing Control (C-VTC) variable valve timing system.

The VVEL hardware enables continuous variability of intake-valve lift, essentially permitting the engine to be throttled via the intake valves.

The system, similar to others in production, such as BMW AG's Valvetronic, markedly reduces engine pumping losses typical in light-throttle engine operation, where the engine must “pull” against a mostly closed throttle.

Nissan likens the effect to pulling a syringe: A large, wide syringe is much easier to pull than a thin one.

In addition to improved efficiency, particularly in light-throttle driving, Nissan engineers say the VVEL system enhances responsiveness by reducing the delay between when the driver depresses the accelerator pedal and when intake air can enter the cylinders.

They also claim improvements in torque delivery and a reduction in emissions because of higher intake velocities and quicker heating of the catalysts.

There appears to be merit to the claims, as the new 3.7L VQ, despite its power increase of nearly 10% over its 3.5L counterpart in the outgoing Infiniti G35 coupe, produces a 1 mpg (0.42 km/L) improvement in the Environmental Protection Agency city and highway driving cycles.

And this despite the fact the new EPA fuel-economy tests and ratings, adopted for '08 models, are known to produce less-generous figures in most situations.

Nissan engineers will not say if the VVEL system will be adopted for the more widespread 3.5L variants of the VQ V-6.

Ward's will test the new VVEL-equipped 3.7L VQ variant, as well as 2007's award-winning VQ35HR, for the 2008 Ward's 10 Best Engines competition.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

I think it would be harder for you to prove that the VQ engine IS a french engine, so please, I will allow you the honours to prove that the VQ engine is derived from a Renault V6.

Incidently, from what I have read tonight, Renault stopped making V6 engines after the merger with Nissan, so that might help as a starting point.

My source is Top Gear. Unfortunately Youtube is down at the moment so I can't link you. Its when they first review it (Season 3?) and Clarkson clearly mentions it.

A far more credible source then wikipedia, the anyone-can-write-anything encyclopedia.

I'm happy to see a credible source that disproves this, if you've got some.

**EDIT**

Didn't see above post before clicking to post this.

[Redrum]

I would happily park a new GTR in my garage, very appealing package!!!

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

My source is Top Gear. Unfortunately Youtube is down at the moment so I can't link you. Its when they first review it (Season 3?) and Clarkson clearly mentions it.

A far more credible source then wikipedia, the anyone-can-write-anything encyclopedia.

I'm happy to see a credible source that disproves this, if you've got some.

**EDIT**

Didn't see above post before clicking to post this.

There are about 30 threads on Google refering to this Top Gear comment, all of which saying either Clarkson was taking the mickey, or was just plain wrong.

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steffo

My source is Top Gear. Unfortunately Youtube is down at the moment so I can't link you. Its when they first review it (Season 3?) and Clarkson clearly mentions it.

A far more credible source then wikipedia, the anyone-can-write-anything encyclopedia.

I'm happy to see a credible source that disproves this, if you've got some.

**EDIT**

Didn't see above post before clicking to post this.

You've gotta be kidding? Do not use Top Gear as a factual source. Half the stuff they talk is crap and half the facts they quote are wrong. If you want a factual car program, watch Fifth Gear. You only have to read a few threads on the FinalGear forums to see how much factual information Jeremy and the boys get wrong.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

You've gotta be kidding? Do not use Top Gear as a factual source. Half the stuff they talk is crap and half the facts they quote are wrong. If you want a factual car program, watch Fifth Gear. You only have to read a few threads on the FinalGear forums to see how much factual information Jeremy and the boys get wrong.

Most of the time its easy to tell what they've gotten wrong. But forgive me for believing the world's most viewed automotive programme, by the British Broadcasting Corporation, which doubles as one of the most read automotive publications (Top Gear Magazine) over Wikipedia... the anyone can write whatever the want in it, free, e-encyclopedia.

[Disciple]

Top Gear is an entertainment program that happens to feature cars, nothing more. You are a fool if you take everything they say as fact.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

Top Gear is an entertainment program that happens to feature cars, nothing more. You are a fool if you take everything they say as fact.

You're right, and if you read my post you'll notice I don't.

[mark180227]

they should drop the vq into the falcon as the new v6 engine.

[Fev]

hehe and also drop about 200kgs of the mass of the car too.. heh ford Na6 rockets

[gunbound]

Never realized it was that good. One thing is that its so ugly to me.

[Fev]

with that kind of performance who cares!

[XR06T]

bahahaha vq engines not japanese, good one..

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Disciple

You've gotta be kidding? Do not use Top Gear as a factual source. Half the stuff they talk is crap and half the facts they quote are wrong. If you want a factual car program, watch Fifth Gear. You only have to read a few threads on the FinalGear forums to see how much factual information Jeremy and the boys get wrong.

Hehe, who remembers the ep where Hampster takes the new Mustang GT500 on a mobile dyno run and tells everyone that it only makes 443rwhp, then proceeds to cross out the "500" on the side of the car and write's "443" over it...

I mean obviously to the uninformed, this would look genuine but some of us know better...btw 443rwhp equals about 530 horses at the flywheel so once again Ford is being conservative with their power figures...

And then he runs his own GT390 on there and gets 250rwhp which sounds about right given it's 335bhp rating back then...and he sounds disappointed again!! if ya ask me, that ain't bad for a 390ci V8 from the late 60's...

[TZENU]

About time the GTR came to play with Ferrari and the likes... Its been a long time comming, ever since the 32 was born....

I will be eagerly waiting the results from the Jap Tunning Houses as they begin to play with it; and what a base to begin with!