Which ute pro's v con's FG XR8 v VE SS

[5.4 GT]

Ok so here's an auto gearbox/engine comparison for you:

07 WM Caprice V8 (L98) 6 Speed auto vs 07 BFII FPV GT (Boss 290) ZF 6 Speed auto:

The Holden box really does feel 3 generations behind the ZF. Up shifts aren't too bad (still not as quick as the ZF) but it's the down shifts that really let it down. On the 3rd to 2nd down shift I can sometimes literally count to around 3-4 seconds before it decides to shift. On the upside however the 2nd to 1st down shift in the Holden can be done alot easier (blame this on the ZFs ultra short 1st). For the ZF box I've found the only way to prevent the car from locking the rear up and sending the tail out at around 50km/h is to have a slight amount of throttle present while shifting (really seems to smooth it out). This brings me to another point in that if you really want the ZF to change ultra quickly and smoothly while down shifting, give the throttle a kick just after you've moved the shifter forward (takes a little bit of practice but once you perfect it it's brilliant). The throttle blips and the ZF changes smoothly into gear (this is accompanied by a backfire and V8 crackle due to my aftermarket exhaust which sounds great! :evil3: )

The V8 engine is a close one:
The L98 is alot of torque through the mid-range but has a feeling like it's running out of puff up top (seems to lose its pull). A well run in Boss (I have over 17,000km on it now) doesn't have the same pull below 3000rpm (marginal difference really now... was significantly more when the engine was new) but once it hits about 3500-4000rpm its cya later Holden L98 V8.

When test driving take into consideration that the Boss' really need some Kms on them. They feel like a totally different car once run in. At around 3000kms mine read 222.xx rwkws, however now being run in at 16,000kms it produced 257.xx rwkw (with an exhaust and filter as the only mods). In contrast the L98 feels like it goes the same from factory as it does with 40,000km on it.

Even with the manuals I'd go for the Ford box as they have the new TR6060 (very light clutch and a nice short throw) over the old T56 in the Holdens (which by all accounts is worse in the Holden than the Ford T56).

For looks I'd give it to the VE SS... Just looks far better integrated and designed. The FG XR8 ute looks a bit mismatched and unfinished especially with the massive gap between the tray and cabin.

Sounds like you want an auto so overall I'd give the nod to the FG XR8 with the ZF box.

[plext]

Not necessarily mate

He who lives etc etc.

How could I ban somebody who is prone to quoting Futurama anyway, it wouldn't be right.

[DayTE]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Can i ask why you're buying a ute if you don't plan on carrying stuff and using it as a ute??
Why not just buy a sedan!

A lot of people asked me this very question when I was looking at utes. But I have to say, I have used my ute in and it's big boot more than I would have used 2-3 extra seats in the 4 years I've had it.

There has only been once, maybe twice I thought perhaps a couple of extra seats would have been handy. But there have been numerous times when I've used the back to carry different things. Only once has been a real load. It was firewood for my brother in law and sister. Other times it's been it's just been far more practical for me to cary things than others. Extra clothing, bedding, prams on overnight runs with the club, or signs and stands for the club, even simple things such as wet wetsuits and gear after skiing. Just toss it in the back!

Back to your original question, I never planned on carrying stuff. But stuff I have has just been a whole lot easier for me.

Back on topic though....
What do you really want? Do you want the quickest thing down the 1/4 mile, or do you want something that looks good, or something that is a bit of both, are you going to mod it afterwards?
Personally I do like the way the body and cab are one on the commodores, but that's about it.

The rear end in my opinion doesn't really make any difference unless your on a track or pushing 10/10ths all the time. From what you have said, it really isn't going to make a lick of difference in around town commuting.

It will probably come down to brand loyalty in the end. Both are good vehicles, one will probably be better at this, the other better at that. But the FG will be a newer design and build effectivaly so it should really be a better product in the end.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Ok so here's an auto gearbox/engine comparison for you:

07 WM Caprice V8 (L98) 6 Speed auto vs 07 BFII FPV GT (Boss 290) ZF 6 Speed auto:

The Holden box really does feel 3 generations behind the ZF. Up shifts aren't too bad (still not as quick as the ZF) but it's the down shifts that really let it down. On the 3rd to 2nd down shift I can sometimes literally count to around 3-4 seconds before it decides to shift. On the upside however the 2nd to 1st down shift in the Holden can be done alot easier (blame this on the ZFs ultra short 1st). For the ZF box I've found the only way to prevent the car from locking the rear up and sending the tail out at around 50km/h is to have a slight amount of throttle present while shifting (really seems to smooth it out). This brings me to another point in that if you really want the ZF to change ultra quickly and smoothly while down shifting, give the throttle a kick just after you've moved the shifter forward (takes a little bit of practice but once you perfect it it's brilliant). The throttle blips and the ZF changes smoothly into gear (this is accompanied by a backfire and V8 crackle due to my aftermarket exhaust which sounds great! :evil3: )

The V8 engine is a close one:
The L98 is alot of torque through the mid-range but has a feeling like it's running out of puff up top (seems to lose its pull). A well run in Boss (I have over 17,000km on it now) doesn't have the same pull below 3000rpm (marginal difference really now... was significantly more when the engine was new) but once it hits about 3500-4000rpm its cya later Holden L98 V8.

When test driving take into consideration that the Boss' really need some Kms on them. They feel like a totally different car once run in. At around 3000kms mine read 222.xx rwkws, however now being run in at 16,000kms it produced 257.xx rwkw (with an exhaust and filter as the only mods). In contrast the L98 feels like it goes the same from factory as it does with 40,000km on it.

Even with the manuals I'd go for the Ford box as they have the new TR6060 (very light clutch and a nice short throw) over the old T56 in the Holdens (which by all accounts is worse in the Holden than the Ford T56).

For looks I'd give it to the VE SS... Just looks far better integrated and designed. The FG XR8 ute looks a bit mismatched and unfinished especially with the massive gap between the tray and cabin.

Sounds like you want an auto so overall I'd give the nod to the FG XR8 with the ZF box.

Thanks Dave that's excellent input much appreciated.(thanks to others feedback also) The bits I bolded re the two makes transmission's I assume you not talking about leaving it in drive and driving normally? As I dont want to be driving at 50km with the ZF and have the rears lock up etc yikes!!!

Also from what ive read is the FG XR8 engine the same power and torque and compression etc as the BF FPV GT's or might it even be a little down low than the B series? But I have read over and over how the Boss gets alot better as it loosen's up. I read LST post he didnt like his FPV SP ute at the start but wants the Boss was loosened up yeah :

Originally Posted by T6Ute

Back to your original question, I never planned on carrying stuff. But stuff I have has just been a whole lot easier for me.

Back on topic though....
What do you really want? Do you want the quickest thing down the 1/4 mile, or do you want something that looks good, or something that is a bit of both, are you going to mod it afterwards?
Personally I do like the way the body and cab are one on the commodores, but that's about it.

The rear end in my opinion doesn't really make any difference unless your on a track or pushing 10/10ths all the time. From what you have said, it really isn't going to make a lick of difference in around town commuting.

It will probably come down to brand loyalty in the end. Both are good vehicles, one will probably be better at this, the other better at that. But the FG will be a newer design and build effectivaly so it should really be a better product in the end.

Thanks T6 When asked why consider a ute my simple answer is I want one thats all.

I came from Holden before my current Ford that I must say I have been extremley happy with. It has 25000 km on it its a baby and if I trade it or sell in approx 12 months from now it will be exactly 4 years young. As im leaning towards the Auto the ZF holds big wait. The cabin and materials in the cabin and equipment sway to Ford also. The VE SS is a looker no doubt the Ford XR8 ute also looks nice but at this point in time im giving the looks to the Holden. Its all good fun I will continue with my homework for now. Funny I like homework better now than when I was at school. Once I eventally decide I will then toss and turn over what colour hehe : :

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Ok so here's an auto gearbox/engine comparison for you:

07 WM Caprice V8 (L98) 6 Speed auto vs 07 BFII FPV GT (Boss 290) ZF 6 Speed auto:

The Holden box really does feel 3 generations behind the ZF. Up shifts aren't too bad (still not as quick as the ZF) but it's the down shifts that really let it down. On the 3rd to 2nd down shift I can sometimes literally count to around 3-4 seconds before it decides to shift. On the upside however the 2nd to 1st down shift in the Holden can be done alot easier (blame this on the ZFs ultra short 1st). For the ZF box I've found the only way to prevent the car from locking the rear up and sending the tail out at around 50km/h is to have a slight amount of throttle present while shifting (really seems to smooth it out). This brings me to another point in that if you really want the ZF to change ultra quickly and smoothly while down shifting, give the throttle a kick just after you've moved the shifter forward (takes a little bit of practice but once you perfect it it's brilliant). The throttle blips and the ZF changes smoothly into gear (this is accompanied by a backfire and V8 crackle due to my aftermarket exhaust which sounds great! :evil3: )

The V8 engine is a close one:
The L98 is alot of torque through the mid-range but has a feeling like it's running out of puff up top (seems to lose its pull). A well run in Boss (I have over 17,000km on it now) doesn't have the same pull below 3000rpm (marginal difference really now... was significantly more when the engine was new) but once it hits about 3500-4000rpm its cya later Holden L98 V8.

When test driving take into consideration that the Boss' really need some Kms on them. They feel like a totally different car once run in. At around 3000kms mine read 222.xx rwkws, however now being run in at 16,000kms it produced 257.xx rwkw (with an exhaust and filter as the only mods). In contrast the L98 feels like it goes the same from factory as it does with 40,000km on it.

Even with the manuals I'd go for the Ford box as they have the new TR6060 (very light clutch and a nice short throw) over the old T56 in the Holdens (which by all accounts is worse in the Holden than the Ford T56).

For looks I'd give it to the VE SS... Just looks far better integrated and designed. The FG XR8 ute looks a bit mismatched and unfinished especially with the massive gap between the tray and cabin.

Sounds like you want an auto so overall I'd give the nod to the FG XR8 with the ZF box.

Your right about the VE SS looking more integrated, theres something wrong with the FG flaired out wheel arches.. VE SS with 20 HSVi wheels for the win. As for Drivetrains the Ford wins, even in the SLOWER V8 (apparently).

P.S. are you related to Cobra GT (Geoff).. You both seem to have similar cars.

[WASP]

I want to say the FG XR8, especially to have that beautiful 6 speed auto. In all intents and purposes it looks hot enough and goes hard enough with the 290 to justify the purchase as a package when compared Holden's offering. In saying that, I think the SSV VE Ute is a tough looking recreational Ute and the engine packaged with a manual is hard to beat. In auto I'm not so sure.

My choice would be the XR6T turbo Ute as a recreational vehicle as it offers the FG package with performance and economy unrivaled by both option above. Either that or grab a BF2 FPV Super Pursuit with the 302.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Your right about the VE SS looking more integrated, theres something wrong with the FG flaired out wheel arches.. VE SS with 20 HSVi wheels for the win. As for Drivetrains the Ford wins, even in the SLOWER V8 (apparently).

P.S. are you related to Cobra GT (Geoff).. You both seem to have similar cars.

You could say that everyone is more use to the VE look as it's been out longer.

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

The V8 engine is a close one:
The L98 is alot of torque through the mid-range but has a feeling like it's running out of puff up top (seems to lose its pull). A well run in Boss (I have over 17,000km on it now) doesn't have the same pull below 3000rpm (marginal difference really now... was significantly more when the engine was new) but once it hits about 3500-4000rpm its cya later Holden L98 V8.

When test driving take into consideration that the Boss' really need some Kms on them. They feel like a totally different car once run in. At around 3000kms mine read 222.xx rwkws, however now being run in at 16,000kms it produced 257.xx rwkw (with an exhaust and filter as the only mods). In contrast the L98 feels like it goes the same from factory as it does with 40,000km on it.

There was an article that had a gtp and a R8 (I think it was the R8) where they had the same 1/4 times...even if the gte had to reel in the r8.
Haven't seen one for the XR8, but I'm sure it wont be shabby against an SS.
But this seems to be the only article that I've seen that shows the BOSS needs to loosen up before it gets some good get up and go.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11228423

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

Aaaand, in ute form, id take the SS/SSV ute over XR8, IMO it looks better, and it is a better motor....



Add the XR6T in the mix, and id go the blue oval..



Now, go to sedans, and its a different story...

One of the mysteries of the world?
As soon as the word UTE is mentioned it's got to be a V8 (whether blue or red)... Maybe it has changed a little? But I remember when the BA ute 1st arrived, the XR8 outsold the T6 ute by miles.
Possibly a V8 UTE is an "Aussie icon" thing?..
:

[FPV8U]

BFII Pursuit would be my Pick of the lot.. runout 302.. mmm

[Sprint347]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

My Clevo puts out 320kw at the rears, maybe he should buy an XD ute ?....or maybe there is more to it than dyno graphs.

Does it use less than 20l/100km and have 10,000km service intervals?

[DMXR8]

From what I've been told my mates that drive both XR8's and SS' (Cops), the 6 speed auto in the Holden is pretty ordinary, apart from it blipping the throttle when you manually downshift. Everywhere else they are supposedly slow to changedown and too slushy between changes - though I guess thats personal opinion and depend on what you want from it. The 6a in my XR8 is great - just floor it and let the traction control take care of the rest! I dont know why you'd bother going manual unless your an old school tragic (though I do a lot of work miles). Besides, how do you change gears while eating a Kebab and sipping a Coke while steering with your knees???

A big consideration is what room is in the cabin behind the seats. I've been through every iteration of Ford from the XF, XH, AU2, BA2 to my current BF2 XR8 ute, and once you've had the supercab you'll never go back. Just normal day to day stuff like lunch, slab of bourbon, gym bag, shopping, stuff you bought but didn't need from Bunnings - all that goes behind the seat, otherwise is will smash from one end to the other in the tray. Or you've got to put it on your passenger seat (and you'll rip it eventually no matter how careful you are) or on you wife/girlfriends lap...

These new Commodore utes supposedly have some room behind the seats, but according to a Holden loving cousin of mine, it's a pretty poor token space that looks good on the brochures, but he'd rather buy the Falcon - and thats saying something...
I haven't bothered looking at it (the Holden)- and probably won't bother either - so I can't really compare them myself.

Hope that helps,

DM

[dave289]

Save for the r8.I saw one in a lime green colour,best looking ute I have ever seen,almost pulled over to take some shots,but had to slap myself in the head after I relised what I was doing and drove on.Also saw an r8 in black but did not look half as good as the lime green one I saw.Maybe see if you can get an ss in this colur and then put the r8 rear lights on the back.At first I thought it looked a bit funny but now I really like it.The worst thing about the ford is it looks to much like an au from behind which came out ten years ago,so on this one I'm gunna go for the commondore even though I think the ford is built to a higher standard than the commi.The ford ute is looking a bid dated from just about all angles.Anyway good luck with your chioce I'm sure you would be happy in either of them,hope this is of some help to you.

Forgot to mention,nothing wrong with an auto.more sofisticated,smoother,faster,need I go on.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by nitrane

Does it use less than 20l/100km and have 10,000km service intervals?

It seems my point went over more than one head.. :

[V3RSAC3]

Easiest way, go test drive them both, see which one you like better, and make your decision from there!

It's a difficult decision, im in the same boat (not ute wise) but whether to update to a new Holden or Ford :( :(

Good luck with your purchase however ;)

[Sprint347]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

It seems my point went over more than one head.. :

I am very well aware of the point you were making

[chubbz80]

if ya want to use it as a ute i would buy a trd hilux

[GS608]

Originally Posted by chubbz80

if ya want to use it as a ute i would buy a trd hilux

a t u r d?
(cant believe that word is blocked)

no thanks go the XR8, better box, newer design, looks are subjective.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by chubbz80

if ya want to use it as a ute i would buy a trd hilux

I wouldnt,
The new model hilux is the biggest lemon Ive ever seen,unbreakeable my arsse..

I wonder if there's a reason Sydney water/railways etc are now using the Ranger...On topic,if it was my choice I'd go the BF/BA turbo ute,the seperate tub is a plus for me,I'd put a tray on it :

[Plugg3r]

Originally Posted by chubbz80

if ya want to use it as a ute i would buy a trd hilux

Yeh the speed limited *180km/h* Pile of crap.
The actual car avoids warranty if taken of road, so whats the 4wd function used for again?

Main reason i'm in a sports car now as Toyota cant make 4wd no more.

Also i'd be guessing but the towing and weight compacity of the Ford ute wouldnt be far of par of the TRD.

[barra240t]

What cabin would you prefer to be looking at? This is were you will be most of the time!





Yes I know they are sedan pictures.

[azaxr8]

lol i wouldnt take my brand new trd hilux or any fourby for that matter off road. but to void waranty for it is ridiculous. rental cars go places 4wds never will.

[Dezza]

While I was down at the newsagents, I saw there was an issue of Australian Ute which had a comparison between the FG and VE. They rated the FG to be the winner.

[SSbaby]

Buy what you like! Both will do the job.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by plext

Yeah, course it does.......

Maybe it's just me but that ute doesn't appear to be carrying any, err... load. I'd say it's parked in front of it.

[351@GT]

friend has an sv6 with the red gauges.... they are bloody terrible, especially at night.

i think the holden wins on the V8 front(especially once you mod it ) and a little on looks ( hard cover looks crap but )

but everything else is a win to the FG
and as its a commuter for the most part, how quick do you need to go? they're not that slow.
302 pursuit's probably still not a bad idea, but from all reports the FG is worth it.

[SirLegend]

: According to Drive's test of the new FG XR8 ute this morning theres another competitor you probably should consider.

I wont spoil the fun here, but go check out this link & spot the error. :

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...d=drivers_seat

[schnoods]

Bugger that red dash.

I thought the green one they brought out previously was bad enought...

Get a Ford, but before you buy just give both a test drive, you wont really feel the extra power in the SS, but you will make your mind up on the auto characteristics.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by 351@GT

i think the holden wins on the V8 front(especially once you mod it ) and a little on looks ( hard cover looks crap but )
.

I agree the hard cover looks ordinary on the Holden looks great on the Ford add the spoiler adds another $2759 plus SS comes with 18's not sure want 18's cost on the FG XR8 ute? Also Holden is six stacker cd is Ford ute std?

Originally Posted by schnoods

Get a Ford, but before you buy just give both a test drive, you wont really feel the extra power in the SS, but you will make your mind up on the auto characteristics.

Agreed Ford wins with the auto for sure powerwise Ford now has has 20 more kw XR8 not sure how they are compared on torque nm (or how this power truly compares on the road head to head). But I have driven the VE SS Ute in six speed manual and they go quite well I must say havent driven the FG XR8 Ute as yet. Also does the soft tonneau cover come with the utes standard? Also with the Falcon ute does the soft tonneau cover come in different colours other thab Black? Reason I ask was having a look at an FG ute in a mag the other day at the newsagents and it looked like the tonneau cover was dark blue like the ute in the photo. (could have been lighting etc)

[bok1]

As i have a ssv sedan with a 6sp auto go get the ford for the transmission.having had a run against a fg ute there was nothing between us.the ssv get's away a lot quicker but the fg xr8 pulled back a little but not something to write home about.with those picture's of the cabin's the photo of the ss is only the ss not the ssv.regarding the auto again i have nearly had a couple of bad accindent's because of the indecisivness of the gear box.you put your foot down and you can count to 2-3 second's before it decodes to change down a gear.i hope this help's.

phil

ps the fg series does not look to bad.

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by SirLegend

: According to Drive's test of the new FG XR8 ute this morning theres another competitor you probably should consider.

I wont spoil the fun here, but go check out this link & spot the error. :

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...d=drivers_seat

Now that's funny