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#31 | ||
I totalled my XR6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,193
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I've had this discussion many times with my GF's dad over the years (he is now an ex-police officer, was trained in high speed driving - i'm talking 160mph in the UK).
He found it ridiculous when he came here that he couldn't pursue criminals at high speeds; everytime a chase came up, the cops were told to back off. I have no problems with police being taught to chase criminals, after seeing the skill level of those trained in the UK; I can only say that Australia must be far behind. If a dreg crashes his ******* into a wall and kills his bogan passengers, you won't get any sympathy out of me - if its an innocent that is killed... well obviously thats a different story but odds are the scumbag driver will keep driving erratically even without the cops chasing him. Police are here to protect and serve, how can they do that if they can't stop criminals?
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#32 | ||
Marko
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Perth W.A
Posts: 430
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WA police not being allowed to police. So what is new here? Everyone in WA knows that the criminals are all treated as victims in this state.
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Mark |
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#33 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
It is slowly becoming a case of exceed the speed limit by a lot as you can get a way with it...but 5kph over and your in deep trouble.
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Daniel |
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#34 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32
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Quote:
The crook is speeding away, and the police obey the speed limit, and the crook gets away. While this is happening the ambulance is plodding along at the speed limit, taking however long it would take to get there... She dies. The alternative - Police and emergency service vehicle drivers are trained to drive to the conditions at the time, and are given the power to break the road rules therefore the police catch the crook and the ambulance gets there in time to save her life. Don't you think it's a bit better that way? The amount of lives saved by Police and emergency vehicles speeding, as opposed to the minuscule amount of lives lost is astounding. It's usually the crook smashing into someone else - which in many cases they would have been doing regardless of if they were being pursued or not. There are pursuit controllers for police pursuits and as soon as ANYTHING becomes less than controlled it's called off. You sound like a whining 18 year old who has been given a ticket or two. |
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#35 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#36 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32
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Nor are police if they have a non-sworn member on board. But, if im stabbed, I want the ambo's speeding their *** off until they get to me.
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#37 | ||
I totalled my XR6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,193
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If someone I love is stabbed, I want that ambulance fitted with a supercharged, fire breathing V8 - anything that gets them there quicker is okay with me.
Cops likewise should have high performance pursuit cars - even an XR6T would do the job.
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#38 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
We have AVL's on our vehicles, just like the cops they are a part of a Computer Aided Dispatch (CAD) system. The aided part should be a hint here in how accurate these things are. The guarantee of accuracy in good reception conditions is only 500m, many areas get little to no reception at all. The area in which I live is a system black hole, our vehicles frequently drop the signal and according to the comms centre we have been in one place for hours when in actual fact we are across the other side of town. I have had many occasions where the CAD had selected me for a lights and sirens response as the closest available unit, but the dispatcher has had to reassign the case to another vehicle because my vehicle is not tracking properly. They are not accurate, not to any level that could prove an offence.
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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#39 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
I think some people around here need to try and understand the level of scrutiny and the amount of clearance required for any emergency vehicle to exceed the speed limit, it is mind numbing. By the way, if you truly believe that no emergency vehicle should exceed the speed limit by any margin for any reason, try holding your breath for 5 minutes, your time starts now. I am sure in 5 minutes time you will have other ideas.
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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#40 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
In the scenario it is not the patient loaded time and travel to the hospital that requires the most urgency, it is the ambulance arriving on scene that does. Once on scene we have many procedures for many patient situations that can negate the need for a lights and sirens transport to hospital. In fact, of all the 1000's of lights and sirens responses I have done, I have gone lights and sirens to hospital less than 50 times. Also with the patient loaded their is no ruling under state road law or our own code of conduct in regard to what speed we can do under lights and sirens (except our normal limit of no more than 30 over that applies to all code 1 drives). We may exceed the speed limit if appropriate in the current conditions but we are responsible for the safety for all on board and an accident resulting from excess speed for the conditions will result in criminal charges on the driver. This is a situation that may even occur under the speed limit.
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Last edited by geckoGT; 02-05-2011 at 05:39 AM. |
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#41 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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#42 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Quote:
Pretty pathetic story though - but it would be perfect for Alan Jones on his radio program. Nothing beats a hyped up scare campaign eh?
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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#43 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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#44 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Didnt take long for the Police bashing to start again i see.... I always find it extraordinary how people whinge constantly about police who speed over the limit while chasing criminals etc.... now comments about ALL emergency vehicles shouldnt go above the posted speed limit???
err.. yea
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#45 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Just to add an element of realism to the discussion, a couple more minutes for me to arrive could have cost a young child his life. He was a 4 year old with extreme asthma and hypoxic that required adrenaline. Is it ok to speed on that one?
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#46 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 170
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Oh well WA Police wont need high powered cars like Falcons or Commodores anymore then.They can just observe the situation up to the speed limit and do a U turn in their 1.1 litre econo boxes and issue parking tickets to evil people who dare to overstay the time limit than to chase bank robbers who shot people at the bank so they can do that again later.Cant wait for the new TV cop show,Police fastest chases(up to the speed limit).
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#47 | |||
Call me Spud
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,995
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#48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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I'm surprised the union is putting a hold on high speed pursuits. If you want to attack management, you do what NSW police did a few years back and stop issuing fines (still issued demerits). this affected the income/budget and was quickly resolved.
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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#49 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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my hyperbole meter's needle is bent now
thanks guys
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
2006-2016: Regency Red 2000 AUII Ford Falcon Forte Automatic Sedan Tickford LPG "Millennium Falcon" |
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#50 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,553
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Hmm CAT600 isnt going to be happy....all that performance and no fun?
/sarcasm for the nannies.
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#51 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 316
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Quote:
The first thing to acknowledge is that obviously all these system's accross the different states are totally different, so my opinions are very much skewed by the Victorian system - which I know very well. I fear you are getting two things confused. You are very correct, the reliability of your AVL data within your CAD environment may very well be subject to inaccuracy. All sorts of factors come into play here, including mobile data reception to your AVL transmitter, the speed at which that data is recieved and computed by your CAD system and the frequency in which your unit is set to "poll" the data. All these things together contribute to be a right royal PITA when we try to use the system for it's intended purpose - locating the most appropriate emergency resource for an event. Corrupted data inbetween the unit and the system can sometimes end up with units polling in unusual places - I recently had the Epping Divisional Van sighted about 4 - 5km offshore from Phillip Island... However this is it's performance drawbacks when looked at within the whole system - and not when data is interrogated in isolation some weeks after the incident. I have no idea how your (or WA's for that matter) AVL systems work, but ours also have a GPS data logger within the unit. All this information isn't transmitted back to the CAD system. Our CAD system is only set to "poll" it's units at pre-set times (which I won't go into, it gets a bit complicated) but there is a whole heap more data available after the fact. If the agencys use data that is recorded at the end of the chain, then yes you do have major problems with accuracy, but not if it is recorded at it's source. Regardless of that though, any system worth anything will send a GPS location and timestamp together - so that "end" data may still have relevance for interrogation. Getting back to my original point, all you need for speed is two points on the bitumen and the time difference between them. The accuracy of the unit itself is much more than 500m. In fact it will be the same accuracy as any other civil GPS unit you or I can buy from an electronics store. Usually down to a few meters. The "500m" your agency tells you is to compensate for deficencys in your whole system in updating poll data on a moving vehicle - not the accuracy of the unit within the vehicle itself. I have personally seen an investigation into a pursuit down here when this data was used. In that particular case, the GPS data was given a severe handicap to account for a 'margain of error' (As the same arguments of 'not an approved speed device' were being banded about) - and it still showed the member was well under quoting speeds to their controller, in an effort to keep the pursuit going. |
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#52 | ||
BIG MEMBER ;)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 940
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Soft...
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2010 FG XR6T, EGO, MANUAL, LUXURY PACK.
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#53 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#54 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Quote:
Yes I agree with the lights and sirens making the vehicles noticeable,but my point is still that if we agree that speed above the posted limit puts lives in danger, everyone should obey them, no exceptions. As for the example of the kid you saved by getting there on time, great. But how many people did you endanger getting there? Kids walking onto the road without looking? Kids chasing balls onto the street? Kids on pushbikes without full control? That is the fear campaign used to stop us from exceeding nominal posted limits. So why would it be any different for a vehicle with flashing lights? But back to the topic more specifically, the issue is with the discrepancy between stated speeds being used in pursuits and measured speeds, via possibly faulty equipment. Faulty equipment never stopped Victorian Police from issuing speeding infringement notices. I think that is Karma
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Quote:
Let me put it this way. If I have a patient that I possibly could treat in the hospital, but someone else would do it better and safer, and I went ahead and treated but caused death or serious impairment, then I am to be held accountable for my actions. Sure I was just "doing my job", but in no way would your excuse be a defense
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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#56 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
Sounds like you've just made it real easy for them to say, 'no, we won't have high speed pursuits, you can deal with the consequences, because we won't'. I'm not getting on the emergency services bandwagon, I'm talking about the original topic - police. A car chase isn't life or death, an ambulance rushing to hospital generally is...I'm not drawing any comparison between them...and nor should anyone else.
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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#57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Quote:
btw, why rush a patient to the hospital only to wait on the ramp outside?
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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#58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Police could also be shot at while trying to catch criminals...or innocent bystanders.... lets ban shoot outs.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#59 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Quote:
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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#60 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez ![]() Photo's by Sez |
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