Who'd buy a Commodore?? - Page 2

irlewy86 · 29-10-2008, 07:49 PM

I think you missed the point.

The thread was directly comparing the VE to the Falcon, what I meant is people who bought it (outside of fleets) where probably comparing it to previous models of commodore rather than other cars in the segment.

The real issue with the VE is it carried some drivelines over from VZ that should have been left behind (gearbox's, Alloytec motor) However VF will be the time for these to go, then we will have a better idea of what the VE should be.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2008, 08:12 PM

If I ever bought a Holden it would be the VE clubby or GTS, damn sexy cars and unfortunately I think look better than the Falcon. However the base model Holdens compared to base Falcons. The falcons win in everything IMO.

Gobes32 · 29-10-2008, 08:18 PM

I find it quite strange that the falcon is outsold nearly double the units each month. The commodore is not twice the car that the falcon is, so what gives?

Gobes32 · 29-10-2008, 08:21 PM

Just had another thought..........

If Joe Blow (no brand bias) test drives a VE then a FG. Which would he choose? Sales figures would suggest the commodore. But the general consensus is that the falcon is a better car?

FPV8U · 29-10-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkr

I would also consider a clubsport if ford didn't exist.

They are pretty fun to drive.

Agreed, i'd have a VE SSV if there were no falcons..

But i don't rate them compared to BA/F or FG.

R0BD0G · 29-10-2008, 08:27 PM

does a VL group A count...

**DJM83** · 29-10-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamtro

Ive driven in several commodores aswell as falcons and i must say i think alot of what you are saying is complete foolish bs :P dont mean to be a here... ill admit i havnt driven a VE but a VT, VR/VS, VX, VU ute....

And i cant say one bad thing about any of them. all loud when exhaust is done, quiet before. never had an accident in one. and i recently had the pleasure of driving my brothers Manual v8 Senator (94 VR).... it was an absolute dream. nice heavy clutch, was a rocket off the mark and on the stretch, comfortable and not that harsh on petrol...

I appreciate all nice cars, even some tuners (thats a big thing to say for me) and i think holden + ford both make nice cars... that being said i do drive a ford =]

: i just drove an AUII TE50 and yeah it quick and handles good but has nothing to do with the topic in question :togo:

TOM-CAT · 29-10-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51RTE

: i just drove an AUII TE50 and yeah it quick and handles good but has nothing to do with the topic in question :togo:

yeah my bad, i didnt realise "Who would buy a commodore??" meant, "VE - FG/BA comparison...."

Swordsman88 · 29-10-2008, 11:37 PM

i don't think it comes as a surprise to anyone around here that objective reviews (i'm talking aboutjournos....yes if you look at most of the reviews the FG trumps the VE, and in some areas the BF did too....) don't have much impact on car sales. I think the interesting point people gloss over is how a person (in general) goes about buying a car.

once a person decides to get a new car, they quite often have no idea what is out there on sale. So they usually go to a few websites or walk into dealerships to look at cars....this is from brands they are comfortable with or know about. This is why there are so many private buyers getting mazda 3s....yes it is a good car but they buy it because that zoom zoom stuff actually had great brand awareness for mazda. The main reason the ford focus doesn't sell better is because peopel in that segment have NFI it even exists, or that it is likely to be any good (ford makes falcons.....not small cars....)

Now when it comes to large cars people know that holden commodore and ford falcon are the big ones (which is why nissan maximas dont' sell.....). Problem is they are viewed as being pretty much exactly the same....so people incorrectly think they drive the same. WRONG! While the V8s at holden might be quite good, the six drivetrains are rubbish and have been for some time. The last high quality six in a commodore wasn't even holden's, it was nissans straight 6.

So since the average buyer doesn't see the difference between the falcon or commodore they pretty much buy what they are used too....which is bad for Ford because the Holden has much bigger following then the Ford...call it bathurst, the australian thing or whatever.

Finally, the killer in all this, is MOST PEOPLE DON'T COMPARE CARS..... Whether its brand loyalty (bit of that round here......) or laziness, its just easier to go with the first thing you considered....

I think any car can be a good choice for a person if it suits their needs, but if you make a real dud compared to your opposition then in a fair world you won't sell any cars. The base VE, while a good car in many areas, is so defficient in its drivetrain (and parts of the interior) to most of its competitors (not just falcon) that i think the game is up. You'd have to find something else in the car you really wanted for it be worth buying......

Late braker · 30-10-2008, 07:27 AM

VE SV6- test drove one- engine was very willing with great mid-range but noisy throughout the range and driveline harsh, visibility not good, mirrors too small, doors to high, A pillars too thick, interior I didn't like, switchgear flimsy. Dash was annoying and overall the BF MkII XR6 is a better car.

BIGJB · 30-10-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

The V6 engine is agricultural. It sounds like a chaff cutter ... sorry you younger guys don't know what that is but think - using a dremel on a thin sheet of metal.

4Vman · 30-10-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I find it quite strange that the falcon is outsold nearly double the units each month. The commodore is not twice the car that the falcon is, so what gives?

Brand loyalty...

JC · 30-10-2008, 08:38 AM

90% of commodores ever built are still on the road - the other 10% are actually driveable. LOL.

uranium_death · 30-10-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Brand loyalty...

And as previously stated, people who have no idea, or a warped perception, due to Holden's clever marketing.

I liked the "Built Ford Tough" image. Had Balls.

Gobes32 · 30-10-2008, 08:40 PM

I find it amusing Ford manufacture a luxury sedan that does 0 - 100 in the 5 second bracket as well as having all the luxuries you would expect in a premium sedan and still we can't sell the bloody things. Yet Ford worked seven days a week when the EA was being made. With a workforce 4 times larger..........

Falc'man · 30-10-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I find it amusing Ford manufacture a luxury sedan that does 0 - 100 in the 5 second bracket as well as having all the luxuries you would expect in a premium sedan and still we can't sell the bloody things. Yet Ford worked seven days a week when the EA was being made. With a workforce 4 times larger..........

Yes, they were very inefficient back then. Jack the Knife fixed that to a certain degree. And if you recall just recently there's been even more "fixing", if you can call it that.

Gobes32 · 30-10-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Yes, they were very inefficient back then. Jack the Knife fixed that to a certain degree. And if you recall just recently there's been even more "fixing", if you can call it that.

Very true, Love hearing the stories from the older blokes. Had a lot of people finish up today too. It's going to be very eerie next year with all the people gone. But if it needs to be done to keep us alive then who can argue?

swapper · 30-10-2008, 09:23 PM

Q: Who'd buy a Commodore?

A: More people than would buy a Falcon.

man some of you guys are sooooo over the top biased, of course its a ford forum, i expect a level of bias, but some times its ridiculous.

it reminds me of a mum going to watch an army march.....1 kid is out of step, but the mum thinks the entire company is out of step with her son

now im a car enthusiast 1st, an Australian car fan 2nd and a ford man 3rd.

but all i read here is excuses as to why Holden's outsell falcons. if i had a dime for every time i heard its just because of Fords marketing id be a very rich man.

And apparently every man that likes Holden's has no idea about cars....show a bit of respect

im not saying the commodore is better than the falcon! but surely most of you can see that there are all sorts of reasons why people like commodores, beauty is a subjective thing, some people prefer the styling of the Holden, fair enough, Thats their decision!

Both manufactures do some things great, both do some things horribly.

I now ill cop it now, but thats what i think

cheers

At least give Holden some credit.

Feathers · 30-10-2008, 09:36 PM

I had the misfortune of spending a weekend driving a VE (WM?) Statesman a couple of weeks ago.

Most gutless POS I've driven, and I usually drive buses!

Vision around the A pillar (especially on right hand bends/turns) was non-existant, cruise control was complicated, moving the seat forward was frustrating, and the parking sensors drove me insane because they kept going off while I was in Fairmont99's driveway because of the shrubbery along the sides.

Munch · 30-10-2008, 09:45 PM

VH HDT Director.... I'm in love when I see one of them...

Tassie love....

But seriously, sexy vehicle...

Mr Hardware · 30-10-2008, 09:51 PM

Don't get me wrong guys, but I like the VE Commodore. Plain engine sound? Yep. Stupid, stupid handbrake? Yep. Tinny panels? Yep. Stupidly small and high rear window? Yep. Bowwwwap sound from the unlocking petrol filler cap? Yep. (reminds me of the old E-series bowwwap of the smartlock). Other than that? Loved it. Sharp dynamics, smooth and consistent power, nice driving position and wheel/pedal feel, reasonable fuel economy. I liked it. Would i buy one over an equivalent Falcon? Probably not. I've become accustomed to big torque at 1700rpm too much...

Penelope Pitstop · 30-10-2008, 10:06 PM

I would buy a Holden - wouldn't bother me at all. My preference is the Grange - it is a beautiful car and one I would be proud to own.

My old company car was a Holden – and the only problem I ever had with it was a flat battery and being on the road for a job it did a lot of kms – and being a company car I didn’t mind giving it some either.

As for Brand Loyalty - Ford have lost me on that one because they have shown no loyalty to me as their consumer.

I am not one to be swayed by clever marketing - I know my own mind, I know what I like and I know what I want and expect from a vehicle.

So yeah even though I have been a Ford fan for years I would buy a Holden...

waggaclint · 30-10-2008, 10:32 PM

i like wagons so yes id buy a VE Sportwagon nice looking bit of gear i reakon...if only FORD would make a FG Wagon hey....

ea90gl · 30-10-2008, 10:53 PM

We had a VE calais (got a free upgrade from an Omega thank christ) for the weekend not too long ago and since I done all the driving (about 550Km all up) through melbourne it was a good chance to get to know the car. The car had a total of 25 000Km which wasnt too much. Being from Adelaide to do 550km in a weekend would be crazy. Anyway overall I rated the car as not bad some things were good while other things were just wrong.
Good points in my opinion was the 5spd auto, shifted nice and smooth and could actually pick the best gear for the situation. Nice ride on the freeways and in general, ranged from just me in the car to a full load and it was pleasant enough. I was surprised about the fuel consumption, over the 550 Km it needed approx 54 litres to fill back to full or 10L/100 average and that was between a mix of freeway and heavy footed traffic driving. I liked the design and look of the instrument cluster however the lack of combined information in the digital screen gave me the shits. Seating position, comfort and adjustabilty was great and sitting in the car for a while didnt effect me one bit.
Things that didn't work with me was looks, never been a fan of the VE design and probably never will. The visual appearance between an Omega and Calais are stuff all and for a sec you'd think it was an Omega with some crap alloys bolted on. Vision through out the car was a joke, especially checking my blind spot. A pillars didn't do much for visibilty. Interior design looks outdated, whats with the tiny air vents?? The donk wasn't really inspiring and if it wasnt for the great consumption result we got I probably would have paid Avis to chuck in a 6.2ltr to save other hirers the massive let down. A few other things Ive forgot but thats about it for one night.
So would I buy a 6cyl Commodore, not a chance seeing as from what Ive experienced the negs outweigh the pos. I doubt each model in the Commodore range (exceptions to Grange, Stateman etc etc) would differ enough to make me switch my decision. But if people wan't to be the loyal bogan then good luck to them cause at the end of the day its thier hard earned thats obviously not getting put up to good use as it could of been

steamin63 · 30-10-2008, 11:56 PM

honestly "when" the falcon becomes a v6 FWD i will probably buy a VE simply because i wouldn't waste my money on a second rate AURION clone.cheers.

seduced_xr · 31-10-2008, 02:07 AM

dont know much about the VE. but when im not driving the BF XR6 6 speed ZF on the weekends im stuck in a ecotech v6 VX series 2 commonwhore S pack.

no guts in it and i can tell myself in my head wat the gear has changed from to. slugglish peice of junk ive driven so far. the worst by far has got to be the horrible sound they make on take off.

Darkr · 31-10-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swapper

And apparently every man that likes Holden's has no idea about cars....show a bit of respect.

Sorry, but it's just that there are so many of the losers choose Holden over Ford. I'm biased becasue I drive a ford, but I like some product holden too.

I am yet to meet a commodore driver that knows what he's talking about. It's always pod filters broooo for 500hp!

I have a mate who is moving from the euro scene to the holden scene, and he just can't believe it... the amount of idioicy is rediculous. Go read justcommodores for a while, you will understand what I mean.

Edit: of course there are exceptions to the rule, I'm just saying the ratio is way different between the two camps.

Swordsman88 · 31-10-2008, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkr

Sorry, but it's just that there are so many of the losers choose Holden over Ford. I'm biased becasue I drive a ford, but I like some product holden too.

I am yet to meet a commodore driver that knows what he's talking about. It's always pod filters broooo for 500hp!

I have a mate who is moving from the euro scene to the holden scene, and he just can't believe it... the amount of idioicy is rediculous. Go read justcommodores for a while, you will understand what I mean.

Edit: of course there are exceptions to the rule, I'm just saying the ratio is way different between the two camps.

You make an excellent point Darkr..... While it is generalisation of course to say that all holden or all ford drivers do one thing it is true that many, if not most holden drivers are totally uninformed about the basics of their own cars.

For some reason holden guys 'just believe'....its a faith. If it a holden it is automatically better than a ford etc. Ford owners i know are pretty pragmatic and logical folk...they love Ford but they aint stupid. If ford builds a dud they know it and (very vocally, maybe too vocally) tell anyone. If someone else makes a good car (faster, better handler, looks better etc.) they will acknowledge it. Good luck getting a holden fan to do the same thing!!!

I'm not saying commodore guys have to go out and buy falcons, but at the very least acknowledge that the ford is the better car in some areas. I know a bloke i work with who owns a monaro, nice bloke. We often prattle on about cars but when it comes to commodores he actually believes an alloytec is in the same league as the BF I6

: This is despite the fact he has never driven a commodore with that engine...... It is faith like this that keeps holden alive in this country, its second only to toyota loyalty at bowls clubs.

347xt · 31-10-2008, 06:48 AM

The FG might be a better car but it is ulgy like the AU was. Ford hit the nail on the head with the BA BF but lost the plot with the FG .

falcom · 31-10-2008, 09:46 AM

I think the AU has scarred Ford so badly that they are not game enough to be to different now.Even though it is generally accepted the Falcon is now the better car,people are not even taking a look at the Falcon because it isn't "different" enough in the looks department.
Ford people will say the Falcon looks better and a Holden person will say the Commodore looks better,but 9 times out of 10 a person who has no brand loyalty will pick the Commodore for looks.
A good friend of mine who has no brand loyalty loved the look of the Calais V
When I suggested he take a look at the G6E he just said to me "Thats a grandfathers Car".(This is the perception of a lot of the public).Basically the Ford has an identity crisis.
So he bought the Calais V without even test driving it.
ALL because He just loved the proportions of the Commodore.
So the best man does not always win.