Wheel alignment - do you leave your car?

[M&Ms]

Originally Posted by DeJaVu GT

Every time I get my BF GT aligned, it takes them atleast 3 goes to get right! Rev bouncing burn outs and body damage is one thing. But a quick squirt round the block. Who cares.

Exactly. My FG GT stays with tyre places all the time, who cares, it's a car, and it's covered by their and my insurance. More things to worry about...

[cs123]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

I do a load of wheel alignments as well. Always take car for a drive, hey, if customer wants to come with me fine but I would think he was abit weird ahahaha. Seat cover, floor mats drive it respectfully. I mean some cars are just loud. I mean allot of us leave our cars with tuners and they are doing what?

But honestly so many times as above you will do an alignment and it drives so poorly, Back in redo it a few times. Trust goes along way, also most cars with repairs all get driven depending on the repair of course.

I would expect that my car is road tested after an alignment.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Spurious

...& before you all ask, I wheel align my own car at home using a long straight edge (1" dowel or thicker, at least 2m in length), a measure tape, a trolley jack (or ramps for minute adjustments) & a couple of spanners.

I will take photos of my car to prove my theory if necessary, to simply demonstrate that after the last alignment, some 2 years ago, even though I've since bought different wheels, my wheels are dead on, it drives & brakes in a straight line, & the current tyres show no signs of uneven wear & they've been on the car for about 6 months.
I've done 3 alignments on my car in 6 years, each a success!

I do mine as well but use a string line from the tow bar and pick up the centre line of the rear wheel then the centre line of the front. You can easily tell if toe in or out and by how much.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by 4vxc

Hate to tell you but unless you can find a real front end specialist who takes pride in his work (very rare but they exist) it makes no difference where you go as guys doing wheel alignments tend to move often always looking for something better.

Biggest problem with alignments on most modern cars is only the toe is adjustable, hence the term "toe and go " and even when the toe is out a considerable amount the car can still track straight. So you can have both wheels toeing in or out and the car will run straight especially with the large amounts of castor cars have these days but as long as the steering wheel is straight and the car doesn't pull,generally to the left, the poor customer thinks it's a good alignment but it ain't necessarily so.
Typical scenario old mate brings his corolla in because it's pulling to the left.
Typical I don't give a crap operator technique
Check tyre pressures (hopefully)
Put heads on wheels,correctly with any luck
Goes through the basic setup on the screen (hopefully enters correct model info)
Runs sweep ect
Returns the steering wheel to center locks it up
Check screen display, if one side toe is red on the screen adjust tie rod until it goes into the green zone
Lock it up,off comes the heads, steering wheel clamp and away she goes.
Problem is the green zone on the screen is a pretty big adjustment area
So unless you have someone who will take the time to correctly align the car that's how it happens.
Worst thing is both cars will run straight and true but only one is going to get maximum tyre life and good handling
As for getting a xk-xf done seek a proper front end guy or a true suspension specialist who really knows how to set up a old Falcon properly, no toe and goes for these old girls

This is all very interesting, so how do we know who to trust?

How do we mere mortals tell if our alignment is correct if a poor alignment still runs straight?

“As long as the steering wheel is straight and the car doesn't pull, generally to the left, the poor customer thinks it's a good alignment but it ain't necessarily so”, so how does the technician pick up there is a problem with a test drive if the customer can’t feel it?

And if they don’t care in the first place they're still not going to care just because they took it for a test.

I’m another that sits and waits at the tyre retailer and haven’t seen anyone take my cars for a test.

I also keep an eye on my tyres for uneven wear, it’s a part of my weekly maintenance routine.

From what you’ve written the vehicle owner is just fodder to the wheel aligners and it doesn’t matter if they test or not as we are not smart enough to know any better.

If they are good at their job they don’t need to test and if they are bad at it, it doesn’t matter whether they test or not as there is every chance we won’t know unless you’re too silly to check your tyres on a regular basis.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Feathers

I sat and waited while mine was done, and it was only moved around the yard, not roadtested. Once I headed off to work, I noticed that the steering wheel wasn't straight anymore, and had to ring up to let them know I would be back, as I couldn't be late for work. When I got back, the guys remembered my name, and the car was straight in.

This is why they should be road tested.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

This is why they should be road tested.

Or clamp the steering wheel in the straight ahead position before starting adjustments. Then there is the action - reaction to consider. If you need to go one way then the other side should be considered as well. I have seen so called professional wheel aligners take the steering wheel off just to get it sitting correctly but then it reduces the amount of turns from lock to lock. Also coming from the days of manual steering boxes to power steering it is very hard to get feed back through the steering wheel - especially if the caster is set back.

[STEALTHY]

I have dashcams front and rear. And whilst they're not hidden, most places havn't noticed them enough that they'll have a full on personal conversation not realising its being recorded.

I expect people to give the car a squirt (F6X) to see how it goes. Providing they're not damaging it, or getting it impounded, its all good with me. In fact i'd be worried if they're babying it along, i'd rather someone who knows how to handle a car be in control of it.

I recently moved to vic, and have just found a new tyre dealer that i'm happy with (Bridgestone) so he'll be doing all the tyre/align work on my cars from now on.
Had a miss and a hit on the general mechanic though (the miss wasn't because of how he drove the car, it was because he suggested replaicing parts that were done a few months ago (and are still perfect) and because he put a sticker on my car without asking (on the outside on the back window). I'm happy to advertise your company, but not with a sticker on my car.

[4vxc]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

This is all very interesting, so how do we know who to trust?

How do we mere mortals tell if our alignment is correct if a poor alignment still runs straight?

“As long as the steering wheel is straight and the car doesn't pull, generally to the left, the poor customer thinks it's a good alignment but it ain't necessarily so”, so how does the technician pick up there is a problem with a test drive if the customer can’t feel it?

And if they don’t care in the first place they're still not going to care just because they took it for a test.

I’m another that sits and waits at the tyre retailer and haven’t seen anyone take my cars for a test.

I also keep an eye on my tyres for uneven wear, it’s a part of my weekly maintenance routine.

From what you’ve written the vehicle owner is just fodder to the wheel aligners and it doesn’t matter if they test or not as we are not smart enough to know any better.

If they are good at their job they don’t need to test and if they are bad at it, it doesn’t matter whether they test or not as there is every chance we won’t know unless you’re too silly to check your tyres on a regular basis.

who to trust? if you have mates that are really into cars ask who they use
also car clubs and the like are really good places to find out who's hot and who's not

how to check? assuming new or very good cond tyres run your hand front to back over the tread especially the edges if you feel ridges or like its feathered somethings up

how does technician check? his screen is either green or red

its not that the customer is fodder its that most people in that line of work get sick of it pretty quick and quality suffers accordingly, but like I said there ARE decent places it just a matter of finding them

No1 tip for late model Falcons, keep that tyre pressure up
factory spec is only good for comfort and short tyre life
18's and 19's 38psi at a minimun
and rotate regularly

[Aulpgute]

Best alignments I ever had done was from John Leffler of St George Steering in Sydney (an old school 70's Mini & F5000 racer). Was in his 60's yrs ago, unfortunately long retired now. He had the old school pit with the old brass plate type aligner, wore white overalls. He would drive it first around his block test track, would look you up and down then put the appropriate number of 20kg steel ingots in the drivers footwell, check tyre pressures and do his stuff, drive it afterward and only occasionally need to re adjust how it pulled or wheel centre. Gotta love the guys who treat their trade as an art form....

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by olfella

Or clamp the steering wheel in the straight ahead position before starting adjustments. Then there is the action - reaction to consider. If you need to go one way then the other side should be considered as well. I have seen so called professional wheel aligners take the steering wheel off just to get it sitting correctly but then it reduces the amount of turns from lock to lock. Also coming from the days of manual steering boxes to power steering it is very hard to get feed back through the steering wheel - especially if the caster is set back.

I don't know if the true basics of wheel alignment are taught to those working in tyre shops. In my day we had to be fully proficient as most adjustments were achieved by shims. Firstly kingpins had to be checked then tie rod ends plus any bushes [ normally threaded steel with a grease nipple ].
Majority of steering boxes were worm and ball nut.
My bosses would have been horrified to see anyone shift the original position of the steering wheel although I saw it done in a lot dealerships in later years.
Falcons were easy with the camber bolts provided they held on rough roads.

Most foreman and service managers were pretty fussy about wheel alignments, cop cars were the worst as kerbs etc must be just part of the highway when they're in a hurry.
I had the RTV done recently. New bushes and ball joints and wheel alignment, wasn't right as it had a slight drag to the left but had to go travelling didn't have time to get it redone and have got used to it now. Won't be going back to that business, if he did take it for a test drive he's obviously not as fussy as I am. Tyres are wearing evenly though so not all bad.
I think a thorough test drive is essential if the customer wants it done right.

[4vxc]

Originally Posted by mechanic

I don't know if the true basics of wheel alignment are taught to those working in tyre shops. In my day we had to be fully proficient as most adjustments were achieved by shims. Firstly kingpins had to be checked then tie rod ends plus any bushes [ normally threaded steel with a grease nipple ].
Majority of steering boxes were worm and ball nut.
My bosses would have been horrified to see anyone shift the original position of the steering wheel although I saw it done in a lot dealerships in later years.
Falcons were easy with the camber bolts provided they held on rough roads.

Most foreman and service managers were pretty fussy about wheel alignments, cop cars were the worst as kerbs etc must be just part of the highway when they're in a hurry.
I had the RTV done recently. New bushes and ball joints and wheel alignment, wasn't right as it had a slight drag to the left but had to go travelling didn't have time to get it redone and have got used to it now. Won't be going back to that business, if he did take it for a test drive he's obviously not as fussy as I am. Tyres are wearing evenly though so not all bad.
I think a thorough test drive is essential if the customer wants it done right.

with the tyres on the RTV you could probably swap the 2 fronts over will most likely stop the car pulling to the left

[Windsor220]

One of the biggest issues I've found with people doing wheel alignments is they test them on uneven roads. So the road slants to the left and the car drives straight but as soon as you put it on a flat road it pulls right. Its amazing some people dont get that or cant judge the road properly.

[Express]

Originally Posted by 4vxc

Hate to tell you but unless you can find a real front end specialist who takes pride in his work (very rare but they exist) it makes no difference where you go as guys doing wheel alignments tend to move often always looking for something better.

Biggest problem with alignments on most modern cars is only the toe is adjustable, hence the term "toe and go " and even when the toe is out a considerable amount the car can still track straight. So you can have both wheels toeing in or out and the car will run straight especially with the large amounts of castor cars have these days but as long as the steering wheel is straight and the car doesn't pull,generally to the left, the poor customer thinks it's a good alignment but it ain't necessarily so.
Typical scenario old mate brings his corolla in because it's pulling to the left.
Typical I don't give a crap operator technique
Check tyre pressures (hopefully)
Put heads on wheels,correctly with any luck
Goes through the basic setup on the screen (hopefully enters correct model info)
Runs sweep ect
Returns the steering wheel to center locks it up
Check screen display, if one side toe is red on the screen adjust tie rod until it goes into the green zone
Lock it up,off comes the heads, steering wheel clamp and away she goes.
Problem is the green zone on the screen is a pretty big adjustment area
So unless you have someone who will take the time to correctly align the car that's how it happens.
Worst thing is both cars will run straight and true but only one is going to get maximum tyre life and good handling
As for getting a xk-xf done seek a proper front end guy or a true suspension specialist who really knows how to set up a old Falcon properly, no toe and goes for these old girls

Well it sounds like I’ve been one lucky punter and it really does come down to having people with the right skills and commitment.

Most of my daily cars have coilovers and they are installed and maintained by a Chassis Tuner who took pity on me when I couldn’t find someone I could trust to check the setup on my AMG.

He advertises that he does but in truth he picks and chooses his clients and doesn’t do street cars as a general rule but has looked after me for 5 years now and all my cars go to him for any new work and for their annual suspension check-ups.

He’s doing his first VF Ute soon as today he confirmed an install date for my new coilovers.

One day to fit, I get called in to agree with the ride height, he feels I go too low but it’s the one concession he allows me.

Then one day to test and tune and I have no say in the way he sets it up and if I don’t like it I can go elsewhere, no if or buts.

Not that I have to worry as he’s a perfectionist and I can’t fault him.

He then does a lock down and won’t change the setting unless I want the ride height adjusted.

My tyres are fitted at the same place I’ve been using for about 20 years even though I have to travel back to Sydney to have them do the work.

They are the only ones I trust not to damage my rims and they happily allow me to get under the car and take photos and measurements for new rim clearances and check offsets before I buy as they know I’ll then come back and purchase the tyres off them.

They do an alignment after fitting tyres and not once have they ever taken any of my cars for a test and not once have I ever needed to take a car back for a touch up.

The same fellow has been doing the tyre fitting and alignment for over ten years and he still tells the story about the bets they took on whether the 20x10 inch rims I’d bought would fit under a C Class.

He was right and won, they did fit, like a glove.

If I have any problems like hitting a pothole I take the car to my Chassis Tuner to check.

I have to book it in and I leave it with him and have no idea what procedure he goes through.

I spend a lot on sticky tyres and therefore I check them regularly and know every mark on them and if I had an alignment problem that only showed due to uneven wear I’d be onto it like Sylvester onto Tweety.

That's the beauty of being retired and having nothing better to do but make sure everything is the way you want it.

I feel sorry for owners who have to worry about what goes on with their cars behind their back as I trust the people who touch mine.

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by Strattos

G'day fellas,

Just curious how you go about trusting your car to workshops for wheel alignments or replacing tyres? Do you leave it with them or camp out at the workshop until it's done? [...]

I have no worries leaving my car with the local mechanic's or tyre shop for the day. I live in a small rural town, and with a "Toxic" V8 BA ute, everybody in town would know if it was being thrashed during a road test—which IMO is a must.

[mike_nofx]

Fit a $50 dash cam, at least just for when its being rego tested and wheel aligned etc, mount it in an obvious location so the test pilot knows hes being recorded... then surely no issues.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by castellan

like coil overs are big load of toss nowadays with people believing it's the only way to go B/S ! they would try to sell your grand mother coil overs

Umm, I'm a Grandfather and Ive had a couple of old V12 Jags.

Jaguar had inboard brakes with Coilovers on all 4 rear shocks. I guess this means that Jag didn't know what they were doing

[olfella]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Fit a $50 dash cam, at least just for when its being rego tested and wheel aligned etc, mount it in an obvious location so the test pilot knows hes being recorded... then surely no issues.

My dealer and I know Toyota dealers as well, do not service vehicles with cameras working will make you disconnect it if fitted. It is illegal to record anyone without their knowledge - so put yourself in their shoes. Would you like to be recorded while doing your job?

[FPV0137]

Wheel alignments are an issue for me.
I have a decent relationship with the local bob janes. Been going there since I got my licence, get along with the manager pretty well and even go out some weekends for skids with him... But my baby is physically too low for them to do the wheel alignments...
Pedders can get my car on their hoist easily, but they were the typical, I don't give a toss, just here to make money, kind of workers so my steering wheel has always been a 1/4 turn to the right when going straight...
The local pedders just copped a new owner and my brother is probably going to be working there soon so ill try again lol

As for the dash cams, I'm sure if its on your insurance that you have one, you could use that to keep it up there? Either way, the cam wouldn't be recording the mechanic, only the test drive, and of its in an obvious spot, it wont be without their knowledge.
Mechanics should really expect these things when dealing with peoples pride and joy on a daily basis....

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Razorwire

As for the dash cams, I'm sure if its on your insurance that you have one, you could use that to keep it up there? Either way, the cam wouldn't be recording the mechanic, only the test drive, and of its in an obvious spot, it wont be without their knowledge.
Mechanics should really expect these things when dealing with peoples pride and joy on a daily basis....

I agree, but is is mainly recording sound and that is against privacy laws. I know this because mine picked up a conversation in the workshop where they said the foreman told them to **** around with my car to keep me happy and I used that when I complained. I don't know how that goes when a news service shoves a camera in your face when you leave court but maybe we should not hijack this thread and remember that issue for another day.

[Franco Cozzo]

When ever we carry out work on customer cars they are always test driven to make sure everything is working correctly.

With booking in cars the way I run is the car is delivered to me at 8:30AM and you pick it up at 6PM, it doesn't matter what its in for, if you've booked in then its here between those times, /work locally, I will drop you off home or at work and come and pick you up if need be.

It gives us leeway if we run into unexpected problems on a customers car.

If its done earlier (most are) ill give you a call.

[Vesper Martini]

I don't have this problem because I don't get wheel alignment's.
I find it amusing sitting at Bob Janes getting tyres fitted, watching their videos convincing people to get one every 10,000 kms.

BTW they don't test drive them either

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I don't have this problem because I don't get wheel alignment's.
I find it amusing sitting at Bob Janes getting tyres fitted, watching their videos convincing people to get one every 10,000 kms.

BTW they don't test drive them either

Ok... Do you just keep replacing your camber worn tyres?

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by 4vxc

Nice work Spurious
What sort of car are you talking about
Just a idea to try, instead of jacking the car up you can actually use sheets of newspaper under the wheels to act as slip plates.
I've done this on my XC as I don't have access to a aligner now
If you're jacking it up I'd be bouncing on car to settle it and probably roll it forward a bit also

I own an AUII sedan. Did the same on my previous car too, XF sedan.

Re: newspaper- I mentioned ramps for that reason. The wheel remains in its normal position, & the force of a spanner on a tie rod is enough to move/ toe the wheel in or out. No different than nudging the steering wheel.
Maybe place a bit of timber under each wheel to reduce the friction (tyre then sits on a flat surface as opposed to ramp slats).

As for bouncing, a quick lap on a straight road will sort it out. That is the most time consuming part of the procedure. Adjust, drive, adjust, drive...at worst it'll take me 4 goes.

[bionic2006xr6t]

If anyone can recommend a good tyre place 50km north of Adelaide? Hell I will even travel to Adelaide to get someone who knows what they are doing. Tyre places are my worst nightmare. I can't seem to find a decent one. Hell would even pay $100 to $150 for a decent alignment. If it's not the steering wheel being out of alignment, wheel vibration, car pulling to one side the wheel weights hitting the callipers just to name a few it's something else and this is after I have had a full balance, rotation and alignment.

Cheers Ryan

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by bionic2006xr6t

If anyone can recommend a good tyre place 50km north of Adelaide? Hell I will even travel to Adelaide to get someone who knows what they are doing. Tyre places are my worst nightmare. I can't seem to find a decent one. Hell would even pay $100 to $150 for a decent alignment. If it's not the steering wheel being out of alignment, wheel vibration, car pulling to one side the wheel weights hitting the callipers just to name a few it's something else and this is after I have had a full balance, rotation and alignment.

Cheers Ryan

If you cant find one closer, Tyrepower Cheltenham used to do all my tyres. Also used Bridgestone at Wingfield twice with no issues!

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by olfella

Would you like to be recorded while doing your job?

You'd be surprised how many factories, businesses, retail stores & workshops alike that have cctv. Most need them for THEIR insurance.
If you shop at coles or woolies...you're on candid camera, & they don't ask your permission do they!

If you have something to hide, by all means ask for the camera to be switched off. The decision for me to go elsewhere when confronted by THAT response, would be an easy one!

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Spurious

You'd be surprised how many factories, businesses, retail stores & workshops alike that have cctv. Most need them for THEIR insurance.
If you shop at coles or woolies...you're on candid camera, & they don't ask your permission do they!

If you have something to hide, by all means ask for the camera to be switched off. The decision for me to go elsewhere when confronted by THAT response, would be an easy one!

It is not the camera so much as the sound. Wonder what even the boss thinks if he could hear what employees are saying about him. Even at Coles or Woolies

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by olfella

My dealer and I know Toyota dealers as well, do not service vehicles with cameras working will make you disconnect it if fitted. It is illegal to record anyone without their knowledge - so put yourself in their shoes. Would you like to be recorded while doing your job?

I am recorded whilst doing my job, these are amazing quality cameras too.

Well if you're really concerned I guess you find a workshop who will allow the camera to remain on.

I see you mentioned sound being the bigger issue in another post, I don't really see why? I don't think they're saying too much as they are thrashing your car.

Originally Posted by Spurious

You'd be surprised how many factories, businesses, retail stores & workshops alike that have cctv. Most need them for THEIR insurance.
If you shop at coles or woolies...you're on candid camera, & they don't ask your permission do they!

If you have something to hide, by all means ask for the camera to be switched off. The decision for me to go elsewhere when confronted by THAT response, would be an easy one!

Yes very true. The only reason a mechanic would insist a camera be turned off is if they have something to hide.

[TUF_302]

I got my 4wds wheels balanced and rotated two weeks ago, i just walk round the corner got a drink then went back and waited for it, admittedly they wouldn't get away with a test drive as its not exactly quiet with a 3" exhaust lol, but if i had something more high powered don't think i would leave

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by DeJaVu GT

Ok... Do you just keep replacing your camber worn tyres?

No because there's nothing wrong with my camber.

my last tyres (old car) 100,000kms current set looking at doing similar.

Imagine if I let somebody put the spanners on it and ruin that for me.