Car prices in Australia suck.

[ltd]

Just one more thing Piotr, why do you feel it necessary to try to criticise my posts? Your last two have been just criticisms where you have misread or misunderstood and launched your little tirade ad hominum. Are you watching whatever I post to try to pick flaws in it? I really don't mind you doing it so feel free to let it continue but it just makes you look like a jerk.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by ltd

LCT or Luxury Car Tax kicks in at $55,000.00. Any vehicle over that amount then has to pay approximately a 60% tax to the government for every dollar over the $55,000.00.

Woah! 60% tax!!!! There would be an uproar if it were that high, try 25% for every dollar over $57,009.

[pertuan]

Originally Posted by Homer1

Malaysia is ~300% tax on imported cars from what I've heard from my Malay friends.

If I remember right, it varies between 100% and 300% depending on what car it is. Luxury cars will have the maximum tax on it.

[Nappa]

im in cairo at the moment, majority of the cars here are at least 25yrs old.
When speaking to a local i was interested to hear that even a 30yr old lada crap heap, with 500000kms would sell for the equivelant of $5000 Aust, thats a big ask considering that the average wage is about $2-3000 a year.

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by ltd

Just one more thing Piotr, why do you feel it necessary to try to criticise my posts? Your last two have been just criticisms where you have misread or misunderstood and launched your little tirade ad hominum. Are you watching whatever I post to try to pick flaws in it? I really don't mind you doing it so feel free to let it continue but it just makes you look like a jerk.

Yes i am, because the world revolves around you butthead :togo:

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

But why compare prices with two different currencies? The smart thing to do would be to convert them to either $US or $AUS then compare.

I think you'll find the average yearly income is higher in Australia then America, so consumers will still have the same difficulties in affording one.

Ok lets say I'm buying, for arguments sake, a 2008 BMW 335i Sedan.

Australian 335i RRP = $104,500 AU
Australian Male Average Wage = $55,800 AU

So assuming one with an average wage were to try to buy that car, when you add on-road costs and interest, and they payed for literally nothing but the car with their pay it would take them over two years to pay it off.

Now lets say I live in America...

American 335i RRP in Australian Dollars = $46,591.29
American Average Wage in Australian Dollars = $44,137.72

So including on-road costs and what not, if an American average man with an American average wage spent money on nothing but that 335i, he'd have it payed off in a year and a half max.

So please explain to me how in your mind that "evens out," or the difficulties are even remotely similar. Here seeing a 335i is a big wow. There seeing a 550i is "pfft."

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Ok lets say I'm buying, for arguments sake, a 2008 BMW 335i Sedan.

Australian 335i RRP = $104,500 AU
Australian Male Average Wage = $55,800 AU

So assuming one with an average wage were to try to buy that car, when you add on-road costs and interest, and they payed for literally nothing but the car with their pay it would take them over two years to pay it off.

Now lets say I live in America...

American 335i RRP in Australian Dollars = $46,591.29
American Average Wage in Australian Dollars = $44,137.72

So including on-road costs and what not, if an American average man with an American average wage spent money on nothing but that 335i, he'd have it payed off in a year and a half max.

So please explain to me how in your mind that "evens out," or the difficulties are even remotely similar. Here seeing a 335i is a big wow. There seeing a 550i is "pfft."

Now instead of going off like a pork chop with a google addiction lets have a bit of a think why this might be the case.

Hmmmm....

All car manfacturers hate Australia and so they are out to rip us off? Doubtful....
All car manfacturers hate YOU Steffo and as you live here they rips us? Plausable but probably not....
The car market is USA is 50 times larger than Australia and we drive on the other side of the road and have tighter and more specific compliance rules that make developing product and amortising parts/support/admin/distribution etc a lot more expensive? Possibly....
We have enormous distances between places with a very small population yet we expect to have good roads and someone has to pay for that? Maybe?
We have a local manufacturing industry that might employ people and would be a good thing to protect? Hmmmm......

But then again it might all be a conspiracy...........

If a BMW cost the same as a Falcon I suspect there might be a big block of land in Broadmeadows being subdivided and this forum would become a historical monument.

Easy way to fix it though, move to America.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Piotr

Where did you pull that house construction crap from? Every house in Poland (and most of Europe for that matter) is made from full brick and plenty of houses have survived from before the war

Who's talking about Poland?

The Lake Michigan area of the USA ( Milwalkee-Chicago-Gary ) does not have access to clay and cement in the same way other parts of the world do. Instead, they build a lot of cladded/veneer homes due to low cost to build and repair.

It would therefore (knowing the general properties of clay vs wood) make sense that these homes would be prone to deterioration much more, and much faster that brick/double brick homes as we have here in Australia.

My old man has traveled around a lot and tells me that these types of constructions have an evident "sense of decay" and he actually quoted 20 years to me as a typical lifespan of this type of dwelling, which aligns with the statement made by another member on here.

Instead of getting on the front foot and attacking people, why not read the whole thread or even just the contextual posts, then do some subject research, and finally, if you feel the need to impress your superiority on others you can then cut people down with "informed" destructive critisism.

Originally Posted by ltd

Are you watching whatever I post to try to pick flaws in it? I really don't mind you doing it so feel free to let it continue but it just makes you look like a jerk.

It does seem that way.

Daniel

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by flappist

Easy way to fix it though, move to America.

Yeah Steffo, move to America with XRQTOR and myself, bring $500K AUD and we'll each buy a brand new GT500 as a daily driver, an 05/06 GT as a weekend car and a shabby, two-bit log cabin that will last TWO WORLD WARS or 90+ years, whichever the lesser.

Daniel

[Piotr]

Dam some of you get your panties in a knot over nothing

Take a chill pill and go hangbag shopping

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by flappist

Now instead of going off like a pork chop with a google addiction lets have a bit of a think why this might be the case.

Hmmmm....

All car manfacturers hate Australia and so they are out to rip us off? Doubtful....
All car manfacturers hate YOU Steffo and as you live here they rips us? Plausable but probably not....
The car market is USA is 50 times larger than Australia and we drive on the other side of the road and have tighter and more specific compliance rules that make developing product and amortising parts/support/admin/distribution etc a lot more expensive? Possibly....
We have enormous distances between places with a very small population yet we expect to have good roads and someone has to pay for that? Maybe?
We have a local manufacturing industry that might employ people and would be a good thing to protect? Hmmmm......

But then again it might all be a conspiracy...........

If a BMW cost the same as a Falcon I suspect there might be a big block of land in Broadmeadows being subdivided and this forum would become a historical monument.

Easy way to fix it though, move to America.

I was always under the impression that our rules were more leniant for new cars then the USA, hence the abundance of lots of older Japanese cars here that they could never get. EVOs, WRXs, the Nissan Skyline etc etc.

As for protecting our car industry, if that were the case, FoA, GMH, MMAL and Toyota AU products would be LCT exempt, for example. They aren't. I do believe one part of our overtaxation has to do with protecting the locals, but the rest is profit profit profit.

The major flaw in everything you've said is that cars here are not insanely expensive because of all those things, they're insanely expensive because our very greedy Government makes them so.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I was always under the impression that our rules were more leniant for new cars then the USA, hence the abundance of lots of older Japanese cars here that they could never get. EVOs, WRXs, the Nissan Skyline etc etc.

As for protecting our car industry, if that were the case, FoA, GMH, MMAL and Toyota AU products would be LCT exempt, for example. They aren't. I do believe one part of our overtaxation has to do with protecting the locals, but the rest is profit profit profit.

The major flaw in everything you've said is that cars here are not insanely expensive because of all those things, they're insanely expensive because our very greedy Government makes them so.

Never underestimate the costs associated with "scales of economy" manufacturing and the amortisation impact.
This "greedy govt" must have a massive hole where they bury the money then? Its no different to other taxes and fee's.. Where do people think the money that gets allocated and spent via the federal budget comes from? Sure some govt's manage a surplus, but it goes back into the system sooner or later.
Im glad there are tariffs to protect the local product, because as Flappist points out Broadmeadows would be a housing development by now if they werent protected to some degree..

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I was always under the impression that our rules were more leniant for new cars then the USA, hence the abundance of lots of older Japanese cars here that they could never get. EVOs, WRXs, the Nissan Skyline etc etc.

As for protecting our car industry, if that were the case, FoA, GMH, MMAL and Toyota AU products would be LCT exempt, for example. They aren't. I do believe one part of our overtaxation has to do with protecting the locals, but the rest is profit profit profit.

The major flaw in everything you've said is that cars here are not insanely expensive because of all those things, they're insanely expensive because our very greedy Government makes them so.

Steffo, USA is LEFT HAND DRIVE, Japan & OZ are RIGHT HAND DRIVE and the yanks protect their local industries far more than we ever did.

If the price of cars is Australia is so bad then how is a student/unemployed/mcdonalds worker/apprentice or whatever able to aquire a reasionably new if not actually new motor vehicle and THEN spend $lots modding it?

Another point is the whinge about the Mustang. A few years ago Tickford imported and factory converted Mustang Cobras and then tried to sell them at the same price as a TS50 (GT-P of the era). They were an abject failure. Now if you want one it has to be done on an ad hoc basis which is like comparing a taxi fare to a bus fare, same distance traveled but you pay for the convenience.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by flappist

Steffo, USA is LEFT HAND DRIVE, Japan & OZ are RIGHT HAND DRIVE and the yanks protect their local industries far more than we ever did.

If the price of cars is Australia is so bad then how is a student/unemployed/mcdonalds worker/apprentice or whatever able to aquire a reasionably new if not actually new motor vehicle and THEN spend $lots modding it?

Another point is the whinge about the Mustang. A few years ago Tickford imported and factory converted Mustang Cobras and then tried to sell them at the same price as a TS50 (GT-P of the era). They were an abject failure. Now if you want one it has to be done on an ad hoc basis which is like comparing a taxi fare to a bus fare, same distance traveled but you pay for the convenience.

All good points Flappist, however the irony is that the current SN-197 Shelby GT500 would integrate better into the Australian market now, than at any other point in history post XR model Falcon (since local cometition).

In 01/02, I had 0% possibility of buying a Tickford converted Cobra, but if they released the current GT500 for under 100K, I think I'd seriously consider one.

The SN-95 was too small, down on grunt and poor build quality compared go the T-Series, but the current GT500 is finished a lot better off, is substantially roomier and offers a significant performance step-up from the GT/GT-P.

Daniel

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Ok lets say I'm buying, for arguments sake, a 2008 BMW 335i Sedan.

Australian 335i RRP = $104,500 AU
Australian Male Average Wage = $55,800 AU

So assuming one with an average wage were to try to buy that car, when you add on-road costs and interest, and they payed for literally nothing but the car with their pay it would take them over two years to pay it off.

Now lets say I live in America...

American 335i RRP in Australian Dollars = $46,591.29
American Average Wage in Australian Dollars = $44,137.72

So including on-road costs and what not, if an American average man with an American average wage spent money on nothing but that 335i, he'd have it payed off in a year and a half max.

So please explain to me how in your mind that "evens out," or the difficulties are even remotely similar. Here seeing a 335i is a big wow. There seeing a 550i is "pfft."

I think you've missed my point steffo. I never said it evens out, show me where i said that mate? I said the costs are still great but not as much as posted.

The original post was USA prices verse AUS right, now I believe he is implying that the difference is 66,000 --------- $164,500 which is $98500 which isn't the case because the currencies are different and we're missing some details.

Your sums are pure guesses as we don't have enough information to go on. I'm just arguing against the original assumption that these prices aren't fare.

I would say the fact that in the USA BMW could sell 100x the 335i then what AUS could sell which means they can sell more for less. .

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by flappist

If the price of cars is Australia is so bad then how is a student/unemployed/mcdonalds worker/apprentice or whatever able to aquire a reasionably new if not actually new motor vehicle and THEN spend $lots modding it?

I'll tell you this from current experience...

By saving their off and working for pretty much the car only, living at home with no expenses in the process. That's how.

Just looking around at US Autotrader prices... around the money I'm looking to buy my next car for when I upgrade later in the year... I could get myself very easily into a Porsche 911 Carrera 3.6 (993) or a higher mile Porsche 911 Carrera 3.4 (996). I could get a BMW M3 E46, Audi RS4 B5, Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG, Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG W210, BMW M5 E39 with higher miles, a Corvette Z06 C5, '03 SVT Cobra, 1986 Ferrari 328 GTS, two BMW M3 E36's and the list goes on and on...

Here? *Stretching* the budget to get a brand new Golf GTI or Falcon XR8.

Yay for us. :

[Dave R]

Perhaps the threadstarter should have converted the currencies instead of providing a flawed comparison. The conclusions largely remain the same, however the gaps are not as wide.

As a grossly exaggerated example, I could easily state that a burger in Zimbabwe costs more than $10 million. But we all know that as of Jan 20 2008, the Zimbabwe $10 million note is worth less than AU$10. Comparing prices using a single currency will provide a more accurate picture.

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by flappist

Actually yes you can. It just takes a lot more engineering to make it legal as in rebuild it from the ground up to Australian standards. The vehicle then becomes your "own" model, not what you imported.

What you cant do is just play with it a bit to make a dodgy compliance.

Have a look on the dotars website, any car or derivative of a car that was soold in Australia can't be imported, all but the top three were sold in Australia so you most definatley absolutly can not and most likely never will be able to import them into Australia and ever drive on the road. You can't even do it for racing unless you have an extraordinarily good excuse, price not being one. As I said, do your homework, go on the DOTARS website and don't make stuff up.

It does not matter one iota if you intend to rebuild it from the ground up or not, if it was sold here it must be immediatly shipped back or destroyed

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Perhaps the threadstarter should have converted the currencies instead of providing a flawed comparison. The conclusions largely remain the same, however the gaps are not as wide.

As a grossly exaggerated example, I could easily state that a burger in Zimbabwe costs more than $10 million. But we all know that as of Jan 20 2008, the Zimbabwe $10 million note is worth less than AU$10. Comparing prices using a single currency will provide a more accurate picture.

Come on the picture is pretty accurate, the conclusion as you stated stays exactly the same and everyone that hasn't had there head stuck in the sand knows the conversion rate roughly, even if they don't it has been stated in at least one reply to this thread so maybe people shouldn't butt in and state there opinions without reading the whole thread first, thereby saving everyone from covering ground that has already been covered.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I'll tell you this from current experience...

By saving their off and working for pretty much the car only, living at home with no expenses in the process. That's how.

Just looking around at US Autotrader prices... around the money I'm looking to buy my next car for when I upgrade later in the year... I could get myself very easily into a Porsche 911 Carrera 3.6 (993) or a higher mile Porsche 911 Carrera 3.4 (996). I could get a BMW M3 E46, Audi RS4 B5, Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG, Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG W210, BMW M5 E39 with higher miles, a Corvette Z06 C5, '03 SVT Cobra, 1986 Ferrari 328 GTS, two BMW M3 E36's and the list goes on and on...

Here? *Stretching* the budget to get a brand new Golf GTI or Falcon XR8.

Yay for us. :

For a goole freak you really are one of the most uninformed inexperienced narrow minded people on AFF.
Why don't you wander off to USA for a while and find out what it is like there. You might be surprised to find that it is NOTHING like Australia. You assume that you would earn the same relative income there and have the same expenses. Well Steffo when you see 50 year olds manning the counter at Maccas, no free ambulance or health or dole etc, no HECS or "social safety nets" either. You might find that earning and clearing after all expenses $20k US is a lot more difficult than earning and clearing $30k AUD.
There are plenty of members here who have visited, lived or worked in USA, ask them what it is REALLY like. The crap you read and see on TV is about as accurate as Home and Away or Neighbours.

Yet again you have shown that you really have no idea do you.........

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

I think you've missed my point steffo. I never said it evens out, show me where i said that mate? I said the costs are still great but not as much as posted.

The original post was USA prices verse AUS right, now I believe he is implying that the difference is 66,000 --------- $164,500 which is $98500 which isn't the case because the currencies are different and we're missing some details.

Your sums are pure guesses as we don't have enough information to go on. I'm just arguing against the original assumption that these prices aren't fare.

I would say the fact that in the USA BMW could sell 100x the 335i then what AUS could sell which means they can sell more for less. .

Yeah your right, the difference is ONLY $89,500 once you convert it to Australian dollars. Just quietly I don't think Steffo is the one that has missed the point here.

Whether a RS4 sold in the USA is $66,000 AUD or $75,000 AUD is completely missing the point. Its a hell of a lot less, close to 2 years wage for a lot of people, than it is here and that is the point. Who cares if I put the price in AUD or USD, it doesn't make that much difference. $9000 isn't going to sway the choice of someone wanting to purchase an RS4, but $90,000 will, thats the issue here. There is so much tax its ridiculous.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by sprjenkins

Yeah your right, the difference is ONLY $89,500 once you convert it to Australian dollars. Just quietly I don't think Steffo is the one that has missed the point here.

Whether a RS4 sold in the USA is $66,000 AUD or $75,000 AUD is completely missing the point. Its a hell of a lot less, close to 2 years wage for a lot of people, than it is here and that is the point. Who cares if I put the price in AUD or USD, it doesn't make that much difference. $9000 isn't going to sway the choice of someone wanting to purchase an RS4, but $90,000 will, thats the issue here. There is so much tax its ridiculous.

Refer to Flappists post. Also look at it this way, BMW in australia sells 10 M5's at $250000 this year, in the USA they sell 1000 M5's at $100 000(figures are not accurate) now which business is going to make more money and cover costs?

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Never underestimate the costs associated with "scales of economy" manufacturing and the amortisation impact.
This "greedy govt" must have a massive hole where they bury the money then? Its no different to other taxes and fee's.. Where do people think the money that gets allocated and spent via the federal budget comes from? Sure some govt's manage a surplus, but it goes back into the system sooner or later.
Im glad there are tariffs to protect the local product, because as Flappist points out Broadmeadows would be a housing development by now if they werent protected to some degree..

LOL, UM YEAH, the Liberal government had a massive surplus because they put huge taxes on things like car imports and other stuff you don't notice and come election time try to bribe you with Income tax cuts that have the most benefit for the rich and new public works in marginal seats.

I know there is an argument for the fact that if we want to import cars then we must pay for the privelege, but the way the previous Government tried to buy votes with public money is downright filthy. Its going to be interesting to see how the Labour government manages public monies.

The fact is that if we are really making a world class product at a great price we wouldn't need to worry if the Government reduced tarrifs, as Ford would be forced to either allow Australia to export cars which would sell be apparently they are world class or Ford would sell its Australian division which wolud then prosper because it would export cars which are apparently world class.

We would only need to worry if ours cars were in fact crap or over priced? I didn't say they were, I just said that thats when they would need to worry.

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Refer to Flappists post. Also look at it this way, BMW in australia sells 10 M5's at $250000 this year, in the USA they sell 1000 M5's at $100 000(figures are not accurate) now which business is going to make more money and cover costs?

They also sell a lot of BMW's in the UK, Japan and South Africa etc, cars these days are almost always manufactured for both left and right hand drive applications and there is stuff all cost difference between the applications.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by sprjenkins

Come on the picture is pretty accurate, the conclusion as you stated stays exactly the same and everyone that hasn't had there head stuck in the sand knows the conversion rate roughly, even if they don't it has been stated in at least one reply to this thread so maybe people shouldn't butt in and state there opinions without reading the whole thread first, thereby saving everyone from covering ground that has already been covered.

Do you not agree that as a threadstater, you have the responsibility to provide accurate information where you can? I see it as a courtesy. I previously stated that the conclusions remain the same, however this does not exonerate you of your responsibility to provide accurate figures.

Very simply, I believe that if you are going to begin a thread that many people will read and respond to, it would be helpful to include accurate figures, or at the very least clearly indicate that the figures are quoted in different currencies.

Also, I don't appreciate being accused of "butting in" with an opinion. I have the right to respond to the opening post of the thread, regardless of whoever else has responded to it already ;)

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by flappist

For a goole freak you really are one of the most uninformed inexperienced narrow minded people on AFF.
Why don't you wander off to USA for a while and find out what it is like there. You might be surprised to find that it is NOTHING like Australia. You assume that you would earn the same relative income there and have the same expenses. Well Steffo when you see 50 year olds manning the counter at Maccas, no free ambulance or health or dole etc, no HECS or "social safety nets" either. You might find that earning and clearing after all expenses $20k US is a lot more difficult than earning and clearing $30k AUD.
There are plenty of members here who have visited, lived or worked in USA, ask them what it is REALLY like. The crap you read and see on TV is about as accurate as Home and Away or Neighbours.

Yet again you have shown that you really have no idea do you.........

When are you fools going to get off the "you love to google," crap? Its getting a bit old...

Perhaps rather then jumping to conclusions, assuming you know everything and I don't know anything, you should perhaps read my post and take it what it is. Disdain for the needless expense of cars in this country created in almost entirety by our Government.

I am well aware of the living conditions in most of the USA in comparison to Australia. I have many friends from there, I know all about it. I never said anywhere in my posts that I'd rather live there or that life is better there.

But then again, I shouldn't expect much more from a grumpy old man who seems to get grumpier with every post of his that I read.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Steffo

When are you fools going to get off the "you love to google," crap? Its getting a bit old...

Probably just after you stop spewing enormous quantities of accurate but irrelevent stats and data in every second post...........

[5.4 GT]

I think the taxing system for new cars in Australia is the wrong way around. Why don't they heavily tax the cheaper imported cars that are taking sales away from the Falcon/Commodore? It's not like a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/AMG/M or Aston Martin are direct competition for our local products anyway. You take the taxes off these vehicles and the average Joe Blogs still wont be able to afford them, but it'll make them a damn sight easier to buy for those that can. The system as it currently stands is an absolute joke. Does anybody know what the costs of running a car are in the US in comparison to Australia (insurance/rego etc)?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

I think the taxing system for new cars in Australia is the wrong way around. Why don't they heavily tax the cheaper imported cars that are taking sales away from the Falcon/Commodore? It's not like a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/AMG/M or Aston Martin are direct competition for our local products anyway. You take the taxes off these vehicles and the average Joe Blogs still wont be able to afford them, but it'll make them a damn sight easier to buy for those that can. The system as it currently stands is an absolute joke. Does anybody know what the costs of running a car are in the US in comparison to Australia (insurance/rego etc)?

Mostly because the cheapo cars are made in countries that buy our raw resources and make the cars with them.

We put on tarriff, they either reduce purchases or put tarriffs on our wool, wheat, sugar, iron, alumina, uranium, boomarangs or whatever.

Probably not a good thing.....

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

I think the taxing system for new cars in Australia is the wrong way around. Why don't they heavily tax the cheaper imported cars that are taking sales away from the Falcon/Commodore? It's not like a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/AMG/M or Aston Martin are direct competition for our local products anyway. You take the taxes off these vehicles and the average Joe Blogs still wont be able to afford them, but it'll make them a damn sight easier to buy for those that can. The system as it currently stands is an absolute joke. Does anybody know what the costs of running a car are in the US in comparison to Australia (insurance/rego etc)?

Its like that because its about the only way to get certain types to pay any tax at all..
Yes good idea,tax the lower end of the market so those that can least afford it pay more...