HSV not worried about S/Charged FPV's

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I know a few Ex-HSV Drivers that have traded up to Audi's and beyond their business collapsing and being forced back in the segment none of them will be going back..

FPV are about to step up in a big way, 90% of the buyers for each side won't switch no matter how far against it their own brand is, and they 10% that will hardly break the bank for HSV.

They push each other but i don't belive for a second they sell to the same customer base more than 10% of the time.

Spot on.

[Dave R]

If I was HSV I wouldn't be too worried either. Just watch, FPV will have their coyote S/C and be on top for a couple of years (remember when the Boss 290 was king **** for a few years?), then HSV will release E series 44 with an 83 litre LS engine.

But seriously, who is this Harding guy trying to fool? Like others have said, 99% of people trade "up" to premium brands, not the other way around. I know a bloke who drove an R8 Clubsport, now he drives a Lexus and it's not even a sporty Lexus - he just got "sick of Aussie cars" after his two consecutive Holdens were plagued with issues. The Lexus has been fault free and it's built like a spaceship.

[Fireblade]

+1 for the above 4vman post

[ChemicalHorizon]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The Lexus has been fault free and it's built like a spaceship.

So thats why all those shuttles fell out of the sky....toyota bits!!!!!




;)

[mik]

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Turbo vehicles aren't all they are cracked up to be..... yeh sure its the easiest way to produce more torque from a smaller engine. But you will never have the sweet effortless and instantaneous response of the larger engines vehicles.....

However.... This is why I bought the golf, It's only a 1.4 but is supercharged AND turbocharged. It literally feels like and engine of a litre more capacity with no lag what so every! obviousley. Untill other makes bring out thing AMAZING twin charging technology on their smaller capacity engines, I'm not really interested. Supercharging is great but never as economical as turbo's. But turbo's have lag. Keep the V8's rolling

Stoney!

i don`t think the blown and turbo`ed thing is all that new, the old 2 stroke gm diesels had it as far as i know back in 1960`s .

[Stoney!]

Supercharger works off a clutch, only chimes in when you buried the pedal or to cover up turbo lag... BRILLIANT!

By the way an article not tooooo long back was GM talking of their new small block V8 with DOHC, Variable valve timing, active fuel management, and direct injection. I'm sure they know how to whack two turbos or a supercharger in it...

Give it time and HSV may be fighting back with a more sophisticated weapon.

Stoney!

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by HSE2

"The FPV product is one that we respect immensely. It has forced us to increase our focus on total engineering to move away from the single minded mentality of yesteryear.

We sincerely wish Rod and all the boys out at Glennbarry the very best with their new offering with whatever than entails.

If I can turn the attention to the great offerings of HSV for one moment. As we enter the second half of the year you will notice and embrace a new corporate direction that we feel will be applauded by the media and our customers alike.

The perception of arrogance will go, it’s as good as gone right now, if I am honest. We cant expect to be taken seriously with the likes of BMW and Audi when there is this perception of aloofness hanging over our heads.

That's an attitde shift that comes from the top and thats me. I take full responisibility for cultivating this new direction. We have a new acronym for it that will be rolled out with our updated product release in the third quarter but that commitment starts here today with you guys."

Haha well written.

The question posed was "What else would you expect them to say?". Be frank, knowing HSV, would you have really expected them to say that?

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Sounds like spin to me.

The first time they would have heard about it in the HSV board room it would be:
" They are bringing out what??"

The second reaction would have been to the GM engineers:

" How much more bore and stroke do we have left to play with Scotty ?"

The answer being

" I'm sorry Captain, i canna giver her anymore ! ".

Pearler. I remember once reading an article when even they (Holden or HSV) were making fun of the fact they resort to these measures.

No, 7 litres is the max, apparently.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Turbo vehicles aren't all they are cracked up to be..... yeh sure its the easiest way to produce more torque from a smaller engine. But you will never have the sweet effortless and instantaneous response of the larger engines vehicles.....

Stoney!

Sorry, have to disagree with you there.

[ltd]

After much rushed consultation and crisis meetings at HSV, relief was finally struck when they all agreed on a new engine from GM (Obama Motors) "Toys are us parts bin". Ladies and gentleman, introducing the all new HSV E2, series 2, subseries 2a featuring the LS23987486745, an all new, all steel engine to take the fight up to those Audi and BMW boys.




When asked why HSV was using a V12 the reply was; "well BMW has one".

[Outback]

Sorry but i fail to see why Holden drivers are called bogans when in the feral ute ranks 85% of utes are fords.

and isnt a coyote a from of dog if so does that relate to what the new ford v8 will be like?

and i very much doubt fpv will release a s/c model.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Outback

Sorry but i fail.

Corrected for accuracy.........

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Josh

But the boss of HSV Phil Harding says it is business as usual for Holden's performance car division.

This sooo often goes unquestioned !

HSV is an independent company from GM its Wholly owned Australian Subsidiary, Holden

HSV is owned (indirectly) by Tom Walkinshaw.

It is NOT Holden's performance car division.

It purchases holden cars from holden, and modifies them.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

This sooo often goes unquestioned !

HSV is an independent company from GM its Wholly owned Australian Subsidiary, Holden

HSV is owned (indirectly) by Tom Walkinshaw.

It is NOT Holden's performance car division.

It purchases holden cars from holden, and modifies them.

Holden still have a significant stake in HSV....

[anto]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback
Sorry but i fail.

Corrected for accuracy.........

LMAO !!!

[F6T]

Originally Posted by ltd

After much rushed consultation and crisis meetings at HSV, relief was finally struck when they all agreed on a new engine from GM (Obama Motors) "Toys are us parts bin". Ladies and gentleman, introducing the all new HSV E2, series 2, subseries 2a featuring the LS23987486745, an all new, all steel engine to take the fight up to those Audi and BMW boys.




When asked why HSV was using a V12 the reply was; "well BMW has one".

Hmmmm - that might just bugger up their power to weight ratio...

[RG]

Originally Posted by Outback

Sorry but i fail to see why Holden drivers are called bogans when in the feral ute ranks 85% of utes are fords.

and isnt a coyote a from of dog if so does that relate to what the new ford v8 will be like?

and i very much doubt fpv will release a s/c model.

Damn, if you doubt it it mustn't be happening.

Such a shame.


PS last I checked the B&S crowd had a big preference for HQ, HZ & WB utes.

Originally Posted by F6T

Hmmmm - that might just bugger up their power to weight ratio...

Time for an old favourite.

Holden seem to like as much plastic on their engines as possible, maybe they'll defy all of us and head in an entirely new direction.

Introducing the LegoS type1

[mik]

looks like we are haveing some fun at red teems expense...........

[Chopped]

There is ALOT of hype for this new Coyote.

Too much media speculation may end up over inflating it's capabilities, leading to the "it's not as good as I thought it would be" feeling.

HSV & FPV have always been close (performance wise) in what they offer, I can't see this changing.

[Wally]

Lexus, AMG, BMW, Audi, etc are nice pieces of kit, but they are for weddings and the beige coiffeured people. They are fashion accessories that compliment briefcases and stethescopes. They go together with Woman's Day, man bracelets and lycra bike shorts

Holden and Falcon natural 8s on the otherhand, have some mongrel, some direct interaction, without all the enviroment damped or muffled out. They are practical cars that need hergatroids of grunt to compliment messy hair and beer stained T shirts. They are man's football, they are thongs, they don't need viagra brand huffers and dryers coz they are John Holmes, just like their owners.

HSV worried about FPV...ppht, what's to worry about. Likewise FPV worried about HSV, no way. A little trickle of swinging voters either way is unconcerning in a market of diehard brandboys. The article is the usual drivel that seems to be manufactured specifically for hyperlinking on automotive forums to raise the profile of the magazine and author.

Most of us discussion board whores know FPV have a local supercharged variant of the 5.0 in test. The bloke doing it has dropped enough hints around the place, albeit on another site.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Wally

HSV worried about FPV...ppht, what's to worry about. Likewise FPV worried about HSV, no way. A little trickle of swinging voters either way is unconcerning in a market of diehard brandboys. The article is the usual drivel that seems to be manufactured specifically for hyperlinking on automotive forums to raise the profile of the magazine and author.

Yup, i agree with you.
But incremental business will come from people looking at other brands, most swinging buyers would look at other brands before either HSV AND FPV... it will be 1 or the other aussie brand on the radar along with the euro's... not both.

Im still far from convinced HSV and FPV are really competitors for the same customer group..
Sure they operate in the same market segment but not many people would seriously consider owning both...

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

This sooo often goes unquestioned !

HSV is an independent company from GM its Wholly owned Australian Subsidiary, Holden

HSV is owned (indirectly) by Tom Walkinshaw.

It is NOT Holden's performance car division.

It purchases holden cars from holden, and modifies them.

You need to check your facts.

Even a simple check of the HSV website will reveal that HSV is a joint venture between Holden (GM) and Tom Walkinshaw Racing.

So therefore it is Holden's performance car division.

Your comment is like saying that FPV is not Ford of Australia's performance car division. By your theory it is not because it is partly owned by Prodrive.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by RG

Damn, if you doubt it it mustn't be happening.

Such a shame.


PS last I checked the B&S crowd had a big preference for HQ, HZ & WB utes.



Time for an old favourite.

Holden seem to like as much plastic on their engines as possible, maybe they'll defy all of us and head in an entirely new direction.

Introducing the LegoS type1

Sorry mate got to disagree with you there, that thing is quad cam; far too advanced for Holden.

[charles_wif_xf]

^^^ Heheheheheheeh good one :

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry, have to disagree with you there.

What worries me is that you either knew where to find that photot. Or worse still you already had in your files

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry mate got to disagree with you there, that thing is quad cam; far too advanced for Holden.

The Holden (On one hand I want to say Australian developed, but on the other.. ..I don't) developed Alloytec V6 is quad cam. It's got twice as much plastic as that Lego engine though, and isn't nearly half as cool.

What is that anyway? It's 32 valve DOHC V8 with tuned individual throttle bodies and the dizzy is in the front centre. There are a few possibilities, but does anyone know the correct answer?

Link to video of it running (yes, it runs - on compressed air): http://blog.niot.net/en/post/165852/video:+don't+call+it+ocd:+dude+builds+32-valve+dohc+v8+out+of+legos.htm

[HO 3]

From my experience your either a Ford guy or Holden guy, its kind of how you are brought up so I dont think HSV will be too worried with what FPV are supposedly going to do.....If we do choose another brand that we can afford its my experience its usually something better and Euro anyway. The default performance engine has always been the V8 but times are well and truely changing and for many Ford/FPV enthusiasts Coyotes direct competition will actually come from within their own camp namely the F6 which in it self is a good thing because it raises the performance bar so much higher than any perceived competition with the HSV brand itself.


Cheers Mick

[Swordsman88]

Not sales wise (given the tribalism) but perception wise.....they should be worried. Very worried.

The issue is a simple one. Due to the 'out of the box' issues with the BOSS and more, ahem, limited HP production (i.e. you need to drive the boss with a few tricks given its mugh tighter power band and extra nose weight) the journos have given it the tag of 'slug'. Undeserved it may be, it has stuck, if for no other reason then Holden has repeatedly given 'tweaked' V8 cars to the press and Ford repeatedly given out non-run in BOSS cars....

This has spread to a general perceptoin in the market place (whatever side of the fence you sit) that the Ford V8 is the slower of the two. This won't the be the case come june/july..... Doesn't mean Ford will see a jump in sales, or that if it it did it would come at the expense of HSV. What it does mean is that gone are the days of the holden fanboy at the local quoting the latest mag test where a HSV has beaten a FPV down the quarter..... The F6 is already a match, the SC coyote will go one better.

So Harding is right, i wouldn't be too worried sales wise. As for the all important public perception well i'd be very worried mate. If for no other reason then that 'toy's r us' GM parts bin you refer to is mostly non-emissions compliant come 2-3 years and is owned, after all, by a bankrupt organisation that cares first and foremost about GM...not Holden/HSV down there in 'down under'.....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HO 3

From my experience your either a Ford guy or Holden guy, its kind of how you are brought up so I dont think HSV will be too worried with what FPV are supposedly going to do.....If we do choose another brand that we can afford its my experience its usually something better and Euro anyway. The default performance engine has always been the V8 but times are well and truely changing and for many Ford/FPV enthusiasts Coyotes direct competition will actually come from within their own camp namely the F6 which in it self is a good thing because it raises the performance bar so much higher than any perceived competition with the HSV brand itself.


Cheers Mick

I think Coyote will increase FPV sales by attracting people back to the brand far more than hurting HSV sales...
I think allot of people bought other brands (other than HSV) when the media killed the image of the BOSS motor (and unjustly)...
With a V8 that attracts more favorable media reporting i think FPV's sales will get a decent progressive sales ramp up over an 18-24 month period after its released...

[XR6_661]

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Give it time and HSV may be fighting back with a more sophisticated weapon.

Stoney!

This is the direction I think it will go in.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by XR6_661

This is the direction I think it will go in.

Do you think HSV is going to dump the Stone age engine for some thing that will actually be sophisticated?