Help me settle argument (Holden based)

[JACK250]

Originally Posted by loftie

[/IMG]
Below: Lotus Carlton 1991

That one looks more like an EB GT than a commodore

[RACINGdork]

Originally Posted by nerida67

OH !!!
the ol camira
we all hate them now
werent they "car of the year"and a best seller ????

camira nd fix me

[castellan]

Even the first FX Holden was based from a Opel mainly.
The others are to. look at the HD-R Holden it looks a lot like the 1967 vauxhall same size motor. as was the 1948 FX and the Opel. they are not the same motors but very much so.
I think the HQ was maybe a bit more yank inspired.
The first torana was pommy.


But our falcon was yank and our Cortina was pommy.
Our XA falcon was designed in the usa. and i think the XD was the first real designed in aus.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by castellan

and i think the XD was the first real designed in aus.

yes and no, yes as it was bigger, but no as in it was basically a granada from the UK in looks. Which is basically a cortina with an XD look

[tranquilized]

XA was the first aussie designed Falcon not XD.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

yes and no, yes as it was bigger, but no as in it was basically a granada from the UK in looks. Which is basically a cortina with an XD look

Heres a clearer pic of the Granada:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:19...2.8_Ghia_X.jpg

Same headlights and indicators as the XD, probably a few other bits and pieces as well, but thats where the similarities end The Granada-looking bodywork was dropped over the XC mechanicals to make the XD

[mrbaxr6t]

listen OP you cant re-educate dim witted people just smile and nod and know better as this thread is clear evidence of - even with references to back it up. its what I do and I secretly admire the fact that Holdens' spin doctors and propaganda machine managed to hammer the fact it is "aussie" home baffles me.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Same headlights and indicators as the XD, probably a few other bits and pieces as well, but thats where the similarities end

..

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

yes and no, yes as it was bigger, but no as in it was basically a granada from the UK in looks. Which is basically a cortina with an XD look

it even has the same wheels as a cortina ghia basically. my point is the persona of the xd from the front is straight from the granada, and for that matter, the cortina

as in, wow holden copied designs, so did ford.. well borrowed under agreement most likely.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The orginal VB Commiedore was also available as a 4cyclinder which quickly disappeared from the aussie market. This (virtually) same engine was the one fitted to the Opel product in Europe.

Last year I spoke to a car dealer in Brissy who was a car nut (holden one too) and he told me of a rumoured story that the orginal prototype Commodores were still around somewhere up until the 1990s.

These cars were imported to Australia and then had the front sheet metal replaced, interiors, suspensions etc. done here in Australia.

They never carried compliance plates and eventually were sold off, instead of being scrapped.


The Torana and even the Gemini were all based on European designs...
Opel CADET I think was the Gemini...

No 4 cyl VB commo. only the VC and VH in AUS.
I think in the 1975 opel that looked like our VB with a 4 cyl was the same sh-t 1.9L we got in the torana.

South Africa made VB commos to. with the big 250 chev 6 cyl in them.

[TUF_302]

I thought Holdens were ugly, until i seen what they were based off, the british really make some very fugly cars!!

[castellan]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

XA was the first aussie designed Falcon not XD.

So Aus Ford say.
But the VH valiant and the XA falcon were designed at the same place by the same mob in the USA.
So the XD was designed by some young amateurs hear. just like the VE commo. and it shows in the lack of style & class.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by castellan

So Aus Ford say.
But the VH valiant and the XA falcon were designed at the same place by the same mob in the USA.
So the XD was designed by some young amateurs hear. just like the VE commo. and it shows in the lack of style & class.

I believe this to be a more factual and historical account.

Link
The XA was certainly the first Australian Falcon that couldn't claim close kinship with an American Falcon. Sometime early in 1968 the decision had been taken to discontinue production of the US Falcon. Thus it was that in May of that year, a team of Ford Australia executives flew to America to begin work on what was to become the 1972 XA Falcon. There they would collaborate with senior Dearborn stylists because the Australian operation was at that time considered to be too small to have complete autonomy.

Very early on in the project the Americans suggested that an abbreviated version of the new Fairlane/Torino - a car of which they were proud - would do the job. By using the center section of the car in conjunction with a shorter wheelbase and shorter front and rear overhangs, an attractive car of Falcon dimensions could be created.

But the Australians had immediate doubts, believing that the effectiveness of the Fairlane/Torino styling was largely a consequence of those long, flowing overhangs and the long wheelbase.

A clay model was built and everyone agreed that the Australians' reservations had been right. While the XA bears some resemblance to the Fairlane/Torino, it was in fact an all-new design.

In October 1968, work was completed after three Australian designers had worked 90 hours. Dearborn was so impressed with the work achieved by the Australian stylists that Ford Australia was told to build itself a design center.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

..



it even has the same wheels as a cortina ghia basically. my point is the persona of the xd from the front is straight from the granada, and for that matter, the cortina

as in, wow holden copied designs, so did ford.. well borrowed under agreement most likely.

yeah for sure Ford borrowed from their international parts bin, but the Commodore is much more Opel based than the XD is Granada based. XD shared a few add on parts and styling theme while the Commodore platform and body was all Opel.

Having said that, I agree - wow! Thing is, so many people consider the Commodore 100% Australian, just like the OP's mate.

[Stoney!]

I'll give holden one thin (lotus aside) they certainly made them look more visually appealing...

Also noticed just how different eh VN/VP series is from the car it was based on with different saloon shape and windows. The longer nose on the VB/VC on the commdore also looks better.

Stoney!

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Thing is, so many people consider the Commodore 100% Australian, just like the OP's mate.

yeah i know i've just laughed to myself about that for years. the less gullible ignorant people in fords the better in my view.. whenever i hear someone who is obviously 'boganly misinformed' arguing about how good holdens are and how crap fords are, or that 'the only reason they have to service falcon taxi's every month is coz they're crap and break down'... (rather than the fact they do 10000km a month) i just say awesome, stay away

[dishpig]

How about the engines and driveline, does anyone know exaclty what they all came from?

[DougM]

Even the HQ is Opel based.......

I couldn't believe it, while holidaying in Croatia I saw an opel that was the size of a torana, but near identical to a 4 door HQ.....I have a photo of it somewhere......Poor old Ted Bulpit.....Even the 'Aussie' kingswood is a wog chariot!!!!! LOL.........

[G6E Turbo 2]

Originally Posted by nerida67

OH !!!
the ol camira
we all hate them now
werent they "car of the year"and a best seller ????

Mate , ask most Car Shops, Camira, Car of the 80's
************** of the 90's

[mik]

it would appear holden pr over the years has done an excellent snow job on the Australian public, kudos to them, they have milked it for all its worth, football meat pies kangaroos and opel cars? holden cruze .....football meat pies kangaroos and .........daewoo cars?

[foxtrot3]

Hi the 4 cyl vb's had a starfire 4 (cut down 202 aka missfire4) then we woke up and dropped it but put the ohc family 1 engine in commodores exported to NZ. the family 1 engine started life in Australia as part of its contribution to GM's world wide "J CAR" program (JB,JD,JE camiras) and the same engine was still recently built at fishermans bend (victoria) for export for use in daewoos and Opels. Gear boxes were Buick as was front end lots of the inside was Isuzu and the wagon design was aussie although the sedan was Opels. Cheers MD

[patmc]

I had VH commodore as my first car (4 spd man 2.85lt ) great car.
Dont laugh.

One day i saw this car that looked like a Commodore but it had Opel badges on it but it was uglier.

This was about 1989 in a petrol station on corner of Matilda and Wharton rd Huntingdale (for us WA people).

[Ryan]

One of the reasons I chose a VL over the other Commodore models at the time is it didn't look as Opel-ish as the others.

It's also interesting to note that even the Commodore name was taken from Opel too, as there were Opel Commodores from the late 60s through to early 80s.

Even as an avid Commodore fan I don't mind that their roots come from Germany. Never really fallen for that "Football, Meatpies, Kangaroos, and Holden cars" jingle anyway.

[Mr Hardware]

[QUOTE](rather than the fact they do 10000km a month)[QUOTE]14,000 usually.
And the only thing out of that stupid jingle I like is meat pies anyway.

[TheZHLANE]

we all have the mates who think holdens are aussie made and owned pffff. showed my mate the wikipedia link , says its made up hahahah. He also thinks opel were copied from holden designs -.-'

[onfire]

Originally Posted by JACK250

That one looks more like an EB GT than a commodore

Looks badass, thats what it looks. That thing has aged better than most cars half it's age.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by patmc

I had VH commodore as my first car (4 spd man 2.85lt ) great car.
Dont laugh.

I almost got a VH for my first car, then came to my senses and realised I could get an XE S Pak 4 speed with a 250 motor, A/C and P/S for the same price as a VH with a 202, no A/C and no P/S.

[MethodX]

Part of being a multinational.
If the commodore is a crappy opel is the falcon just a tarted up XK?
lol

[SSVPom]

Love this thread !! See my images of now almost forgotten European Vauxhalls, bearing in mind it is reasonably rare to see an Opel or Vauxhall on the road older than 10 years old due to the rust bug. Enjoy :

The Viceroy / Royale / Opel Rekord on which the VB Commodore was based








The Coupe, which turned into the infamous Monza coupe (and which Brocky tried to import with a 5.0V8)



My favourite, and the UK Police Forces - the 3.0 24v Senator


The Mk1 Vauxhall Cavalier / Opel Ascona, which I believe spawned the Sunbird ?


The Mk2 Cavalier / Opel Ascona which of course degenerated into the Camira for you Aussies



The Mk3 Cavalier / Opel Vectra which never made down under, manufactured from 1988 til 1995 whereupon the Vectra took over



Anyway, a trip down memory lane for me - thanks for looking !

[jason71]

The humble Torana started life from a Vauxhall Viva.

Some reading HERE

[Chilliman]

Funny thing is - that "football, meat pies and Holden cars" jingle is just a rip of a Chevrolet jingle; something about baseball and apple pie :