Holden tops list of new car ‘lemons’

[MethodX]

Not good.... Ford might as well close down Aus manufacturing.... oh wait..

[deluxe_]

Originally Posted by SYZ

I'm sorry, but I can't really agree with this assertion. When a consumer buys a motor vehicle, they're buying a complete, finished product from Ford or Volkswagen or Mazda etc. They're not buying a (warrantied) gearbox from BorgWarner, brakes from Brembo, lights from Hella, seats from SAAS, or audio from Alpine. It's totally immaterial from where Ford or GM source their sub-unit parts—it's Ford or GM who provide, honour and service their warranties.

You seem to be—at the least—suggesting that a faulty Ford transmission (for example) is not Ford's fault, but that of BorgWarner, and because of this Ford can't realistically be held morally responsible.

—Or am I maybe misinterpreting your comment?

You took what i said out of context. My point was it can be quite a feat for motor vehicle companies to control the quality of the parts suppliers day in, day out. This is one of obstacles which not many companies/brands can hurdle easily as they are not in direct control of the products which they receive and install on their vehicles. Addressing the issues can take allot of time and resources - allot of going back and forth in communication with the supplier.

Anyone who's owned a small-medium size business will understand the pain and suffering companies go through to address issues in quality and maintaining of standards from the parts they receive. Some companies are encumbered with single supplier as there isn't much alternative to switch to another and this can cause that single supplier to address the issue at a slower pace since they're of the aware of the position of control or advantage they're in.

[deluxe_]

Nissan for example has established a company (not sure about the share of business) that's separate from its core company Nissan, called Calsonic. They're pretty much in direct control of what goes in to their cars. They also supply parts to other manufacturers to some level.


http://calsonic.com/

http://www.ckeurope.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calsonic_Kansei

Cockpit module and interior products
Instrument panels
Air conditioning units
Instrument clusters
Integrated switches

Climate Control Systems
HVAC units
Condensers
Compressors

Compressors
Variable displacement compressors
Rotary compressors

Heat exchange products
Radiators
Condensers
Motor fans
Internal air coolers
Oil coolers

Electronic Products
Body Electronics
Body Control Modules
Auto Driving Position Systems
Airbag Control Units
Occupant Detection Systems
Keyless entry
Human Machine Interface components
Power electronics components

Exhaust systems
Exhaust manifold converters
Mufflers
Emission control devices

[TheInterceptor]

Regarding the OP. Interesting and unsurprisingly, electrics are top of list for main causes for failure. It will only get worse as technology gets more complicated. Disposable cars.

[Makovic]

Two thirds of new car buyers find fault in first five years.

Other third aren't looking hard enough,.

[brismike]

Don't worry, in a few years your self drive car will drive you to the service centre where some random robot will tell you .... "They all do that" .... lol

Cheers Mike

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Makovic

Two thirds of new car buyers find fault in first five years.

Other third aren't looking hard enough,.

Or simply dgaf.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Regarding the OP. Interesting and unsurprisingly, electrics are top of list for main causes for failure. It will only get worse as technology gets more complicated. Disposable cars.

There is no information out there for us little guys to diagnose and fix these problems, its all on us to sort it out ourselves.

You ring the manufacturer and they just say bring it to us.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

There is no information out there for us little guys to diagnose and fix these problems, its all on us to sort it out ourselves.

You ring the manufacturer and they just say bring it to us.

Yes of course. Cos if we fix the car they don't make money. Build something that needs work often enough and can only be fixed by the manufacturer and it's a brilliant business plan. If you don't sell enough cars, the dealer workshops bring up the slack. The trick is not to build too many faults in.

Unless it's Ford, then it's within spec. Up until not long ago I haven't experienced this till dad and I went to the dealer dad bought his new Ranger off for a service and asked the workshop to look at the suspension which was sagged big time. To the point the front CV's were inverted to normal position and rear leaf springs were bent around the axle beam.

It's not how it used to be at all.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Yes of course. Cos if we fix the car they don't make money. Build something that needs work often enough and can only be fixed by the manufacturer and it's a brilliant business plan. If you don't sell enough cars, the dealer workshops bring up the slack. The trick is not to build too many faults in.

Unless it's Ford, then it's within spec. Up until not long ago I haven't experienced this till dad and I went to the dealer dad bought his new Ranger off for a service and asked the workshop to look at the suspension which was sagged big time. To the point the front CV's were inverted to normal position and rear leaf springs were bent around the axle beam.

It's not how it used to be at all.

Listening to Leon Byner the other day, he was talking to the sailing ships captain that was birthed over at port Lincoln.

what he had to say was nothing short of brilliant......he said about his crew

"I have the perfect business model, they pay for the privilege to work for me aboard my ship!"

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by olfella

I had a problem with a Ford BF I bought. I ended up at consumer affairs to sort out as the dealer kept saying it was Fords problem, while I (and Fair Trading supported me) said, no I bought the car from you so you fix it. If you need to go to Ford then you go - not me. This is also supported in the article where they report, "The Choice report also said some consumers found it difficult to convince dealers to acknowledge there was a problem with their new cars. Others reported that dealers appeared to deliberately avoid acknowledging problems existed until after dealer warranty periods expired".
So, while the manufacturers cop a caning, it should be the dealers that are made more accountable.

Had a similar situation where the dealer wouldn't fix diff bushes (FG XR6) under warranty as warranty had just run out. (They were also ignoring that I had extended warranty. Both Ford and the dealers sister dealership couldn't have been more helpful or apologetic. Through their help the issue was resolved. Seems some of the dealers are more the problem than the company itself.

[mik]

Originally Posted by superpursuit05

Had a similar situation where the dealer wouldn't fix diff bushes (FG XR6) under warranty as warranty had just run out. (They were also ignoring that I had extended warranty. Both Ford and the dealers sister dealership couldn't have been more helpful or apologetic. Through their help the issue was resolved. Seems some of the dealers are more the problem than the company itself.

Unfortunately that is the way it is, some dealerships will bend over backwards to do the right thing, or even go the extra mile , others wont do anything if it will effect their bottom line.

[XR815]

Honestly,

Our work cars are Commodore SV6's.. previously VE now VF. They have been awesome.. virtually no issues in 3 yrs or 100000km. We have a Cruze SRI-V. We bought it new 3 years ago and have only had minor trim issues fixed under warranty. They are both well sorted in my view.

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by XR815

Honestly,

Our work cars are Commodore SV6's.. previously VE now VF. They have been awesome.. virtually no issues in 3 yrs or 100000km. We have a Cruze SRI-V. We bought it new 3 years ago and have only had minor trim issues fixed under warranty. They are both well sorted in my view.

Well I've got a HQ Holden that in the last 7 years I've had to replace most of the interior, paint, panel, suspension, engine, gearbox, battery, tyres....the list just goes on. This week alone I had to replace the clutch and it's only done 5000 km's!!! Bloody Holdens!!!

[GREGL]

Bought a Suzuki 3 years ago and have had not 1 issue. Great little car that replaced a P.O.S Bf Xr8 . We kept a VX Commodore that when it came down to it WAS a better car overall . The s/box whilst worth more on the market got traded with no regrets.

End of story.

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Not good.... Ford might as well close down Aus manufacturing.... oh wait..

Can you just go away

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

Can you just go away

You first...

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by olfella

I had a problem with a Ford BF I bought. I ended up at consumer affairs to sort out as the dealer kept saying it was Fords problem, while I (and Fair Trading supported me) said, no I bought the car from you so you fix it. If you need to go to Ford then you go - not me. This is also supported in the article where they report, "The Choice report also said some consumers found it difficult to convince dealers to acknowledge there was a problem with their new cars. Others reported that dealers appeared to deliberately avoid acknowledging problems existed until after dealer warranty periods expired".
So, while the manufacturers cop a caning, it should be the dealers that are made more accountable.

I don't disagree but certainly in the case of Ford, I can think of two key reasons over the years why dealers started ducking and weaving around warranty:

1. Ford continued to ship cars with known faults that became the dealers problem when they inevitably failed to meet customers satisfaction. Production lines weren't halted nor cars properly recalled.

2. Ford cut warranty hours for repairs, turning many of those same faulty cars they shipped into money pits for dealers, as dealer principals had to cover the hours spent between what it actually took to get the job done and what Ford would argue it took to get done, which was considerably less.

Effectively Ford passed the cost of sub standard work onto their dealer network.

If the dealer did a good job on the repair, word got around (like on here) and they got lumbered with more warranty jobs that were costly to do. Sure you can talk about goodwill for the future, but the cost to the dealer is today and it would really start to add up on some warranty work. The better the dealer was at fixing it, the more they got financially punished.

I'm not using this as an excuse, but rather to say Ford by its "save a dollar today, lose ten of the customers tomorrow" mentality to everything, wasn't and still isn't just reserved for us as the end customer.

The implications of which, unfortunately is a lesson Ford have still to learn.

[Veetwin]

Originally Posted by brismike

Don't worry, in a few years your self drive car will drive you to the service centre where some random robot will tell you .... "They all do that" .... lol

Cheers Mike

Nice!