AFF Weight Gain/Loss Program

[loosey]

I've decided to aim at getting a six pack and eventually build my self up a bit too, i'm aiming at loosing about 10kg and getting my weight into the mid 70's then go from there. Each week I don't want to lose anymore than half a kilogram because I don't want to sacrifice muscle. Although last week I lost 2kg : /.
I haven't been doing any cardio that I wasn't doing before but I'm going to start to go out with kettlebells and get into the kayaks more often. I've been going to the gym every second day and lifting heavy (you burn a lot of calories recovering).
I've changed my diet a lot, no more soft drinks (was drinking 1 or 2 cans a day), if i want iced coffee I'll have a feel good aside from that I'm only drinking water. No alcohol either. The only processed foods I've been having is the flavoured milk and cottage cheese.

Breakfast: tuna, salmon or sardines with fruit
Midmorning: fruit or small amount of nuts and a feelgood if I feel like it
Lunch: skinless chicken breast or steak(lean/ no fat) and salad
afternoon: pop corn(no salt or butter) or egg whites
dinner: what ever mum cooks (dad has to eat healthy anyway)

A fish oil tablet before breakfast and before dinner.

blueoval I goto Jetts on south road, they're open 24/7 and it only costs about $20 a fortnight. Although the aquatic centre at Nourlunga has a sale on at the moment which works out about the same and you get to use their pools and all the facilities.

For anyone on here that are trying to keep up with their calorie intake vs calories burnt goto www.fitday.com, it takes a bit of effort entering everything in but i think it's worth it.

[XRSEX]

No matter what I do, I can't lose OR gain weight haha.

I eat like a horse and usually fairly heathily (meat and 3 veg for dinner), always have breakfast and a decent lunch.

Stayed at 55kgs for the last 5 years and i'm 176cm tall.

That being said, apparently i retain a fair bit of fluid because some days you can see I have a 6 pack and others its not very visable at all.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by motionless_xe

blueoval I goto Jetts on south road, they're open 24/7 and it only costs about $20 a fortnight. Although the aquatic centre at Nourlunga has a sale on at the moment which works out about the same and you get to use their pools and all the facilities.

For anyone on here that are trying to keep up with their calorie intake vs calories burnt goto www.fitday.com, it takes a bit of effort entering everything in but i think it's worth it.

Thanks mate. Might look into it, but the hours Noarlunga have on weekends are abysmal at best. Which is something I would rather consider. I was a member of Noarlunga about 4 years ago. Ended up using the pool about 6 times out of 2 years being a member. So really, not overly fussed about the swimming part.

You are the second person I have been speaking to about the fish oil tablet too. Any real reason you do this? Does actually help with the workout or weight loss?

I was taking fish oil alot for sometime due to my arthritis.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by -XR-

No matter what I do, I can't lose OR gain weight haha.

I eat like a horse and usually fairly heathily (meat and 3 veg for dinner), always have breakfast and a decent lunch.

Stayed at 55kgs for the last 5 years and i'm 176cm tall.

That being said, apparently i retain a fair bit of fluid because some days you can see I have a 6 pack and others its not very visable at all.

Are you wanting to put on weight, if so it's simple, you need to EAT, and just eating meat and 3 veg for dinner won't cut it, you need to eat soild/very dense food's,
I went from 69kg to 102kg, I also trained (strength training) aswell for comp, but it is quite easy really, eat consistaintly and don't be affraid to eat a little fat and some not so good food's(as some would say) if you want to pack on the kg's quicker, you can allway's cut back latter, which is the name of the game,
But you can't eat healthy (ie just fruit and veg only) and expect to put on massive amount's of weight, you need to eat some very dense food's like I said, but allways snack on good fruit etc,
But you need to teach you body to snack and crave food, but remember it will have an opposite effect when you want to loose it, your body will crave food,
But that's where cardio will help, maintain it.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by -XR-

No matter what I do, I can't lose OR gain weight haha.

I eat like a horse and usually fairly heathily (meat and 3 veg for dinner), always have breakfast and a decent lunch.

Stayed at 55kgs for the last 5 years and i'm 176cm tall.

That being said, apparently i retain a fair bit of fluid because some days you can see I have a 6 pack and others its not very visable at all.

I dont think you could lose anything off 55kg. Unless you want to start wearing away bone.
How old are you?

[RG]

Originally Posted by -XR-

No matter what I do, I can't lose OR gain weight haha.

I eat like a horse and usually fairly heathily (meat and 3 veg for dinner), always have breakfast and a decent lunch.

Stayed at 55kgs for the last 5 years and i'm 176cm tall.

That being said, apparently i retain a fair bit of fluid because some days you can see I have a 6 pack and others its not very visable at all.

I was like that for years too, although I'm a little shorter at 172cm.

That was until I hit my late 20's and threw 10kg on without trying....

[trippytaka]

I'm back at at the gym after 10 months of excuses and laziness. So sore! But god it feels good.

Started ketosis 2 weeks ago @ 120kg (193cm tall).

Currently 115kg

Aim: 105kg.

The trick? Keeping it off all year is what I am after. I would like to stay stable at 100-105 this year. 13% body fat would be nice.

Fingers crossed. :

[SKITZD]

Well I might as well join up here, hopefully I can get a little bit of support I need.

Long story short, I have always (a few years back) been a really fit and healthy girl. Height: 175.5cms and a size 14 (no chance ever of being smaller then a 14, just not built that way). Anyway I was always working out and very happy.

Then I married an ********. Unfortunately my choice wasn't very good in my partner and we ended up living in the bush near his family only. I had no one around and was subject to being bossed around, screamed at, have things thrown at me, pushed around, shoved into things and emotionally abused. I put up with that for 3 years until last Oct 09.

Anyway, because of all the abuse I really lost my self esteem, I comfort ate and now I absolutely hate who I am. Because Im not the fit person I used to be.

I understand all about excersizes and eating habits (studied it all for years).

My biggest problem is no motivation (even when I start losing the weight I gained, I lose motivation and it all comes back) and a serious lack of self esteem (to the point where I really hate myself). When someone tells you constant bullying about how you look etc, after a while you believe it.

So does anyone have tips on raising your self esteem? Or getting motivated?




P.s sorry for the skyscraper thread

[left]

Originally Posted by SKITZD

Well I might as well join up here, hopefully I can get a little bit of support I need.

Long story short, I have always (a few years back) been a really fit and healthy girl. Height: 175.5cms and a size 14 (no chance ever of being smaller then a 14, just not built that way). Anyway I was always working out and very happy.

Then I married an ********. Unfortunately my choice wasn't very good in my partner and we ended up living in the bush near his family only. I had no one around and was subject to being bossed around, screamed at, have things thrown at me, pushed around, shoved into things and emotionally abused. I put up with that for 3 years until last Oct 09.

Anyway, because of all the abuse I really lost my self esteem, I comfort ate and now I absolutely hate who I am. Because Im not the fit person I used to be.

I understand all about excersizes and eating habits (studied it all for years).

My biggest problem is no motivation (even when I start losing the weight I gained, I lose motivation and it all comes back) and a serious lack of self esteem (to the point where I really hate myself). When someone tells you constant bullying about how you look etc, after a while you believe it.

So does anyone have tips on raising your self esteem? Or getting motivated?

P.s sorry for the skyscraper thread

Virtual hugs to you SKITZD (((( hugs )))))
No helpful advice but plenty of support from me!

[blueoval]

Skitzd

I find that knowing WHY you want to improve yourself physically can help motivate you into action.

i.e. Do it for yourself, Do it to prove a point to yourself that it can be done, Set goals.

One thing that has helped me, is that I wanted to not only do it for myself but also for my family and to improve my quality of life.

I asked myself, am I happy, what is my crux in life, is my life fulfilling? I had to get honest with myself first before I could realistically look at where I wanted to be.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by SKITZD

Well I might as well join up here, hopefully I can get a little bit of support I need.

Long story short, I have always (a few years back) been a really fit and healthy girl. Height: 175.5cms and a size 14 (no chance ever of being smaller then a 14, just not built that way). Anyway I was always working out and very happy.

Then I married an ********. Unfortunately my choice wasn't very good in my partner and we ended up living in the bush near his family only. I had no one around and was subject to being bossed around, screamed at, have things thrown at me, pushed around, shoved into things and emotionally abused. I put up with that for 3 years until last Oct 09.

Anyway, because of all the abuse I really lost my self esteem, I comfort ate and now I absolutely hate who I am. Because Im not the fit person I used to be.

I understand all about excersizes and eating habits (studied it all for years).

My biggest problem is no motivation (even when I start losing the weight I gained, I lose motivation and it all comes back) and a serious lack of self esteem (to the point where I really hate myself). When someone tells you constant bullying about how you look etc, after a while you believe it.

So does anyone have tips on raising your self esteem? Or getting motivated?

P.s sorry for the skyscraper thread

Oh its not easyto get yourself back on track, my weights been up and down for 3 years now, i decided enough was enough and started losing it in 2007, dropped 20 kgs until last year when i got super busy and stressed (working 7 days a week) coz i had so much work on.. Put 7 kgs back on!! Now im starting the process again.. The way i look at it if i want to truely be happy i need to be a healthy weight, there are so many things that can go wrong for you when your overweight health wise, with diabeties, loss of sight etc. Then theres trying to find a special someone in your life, if your not happy wiht yourself then how can they be!!

I am starting back at the gym this week and back taking reductile a weight loss drug, i have used it in the past with good results, my biggest let down is food, something i really need to focus on!

Do you have a friend or someone you can train with?? Having someone to push you along is always helpful.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

I'm back at at the gym after 10 months of excuses and laziness. So sore! But god it feels good.

Started ketosis 2 weeks ago @ 120kg (193cm tall).

Currently 115kg

Aim: 105kg.

The trick? Keeping it off all year is what I am after. I would like to stay stable at 100-105 this year. 13% body fat would be nice.

Fingers crossed. :

5 kgs in 2 weeks?? whats your secret?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

5 kgs in 2 weeks?? whats your secret?

I'll take a punt....

5kgs in 2 weeks = almost no carbs, the first couple of kg's will have been water weight that will stay lower whilst on low carb eating but the other 3kgs is pure weight loss. On the assumption that he is on high protein aswell, it is almost all fat.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by SKITZD

...

My biggest problem is no motivation (even when I start losing the weight I gained, I lose motivation and it all comes back) and a serious lack of self esteem (to the point where I really hate myself). When someone tells you constant bullying about how you look etc, after a while you believe it.

So does anyone have tips on raising your self esteem? Or getting motivated?

1) forget all the crap that was said to / about you. Without ever meeting you, I am sure you are a great person who deserves to be happy.

2) baby steps. Don't worry about the big picture of getting back to a fitness level you desire, just focus on getting a routine going and ease yourself into it.

You'll find its a snowball effect and you'll get back into it quicker than you expect and you'll gain that confidence.

I wish you all the best

[HLC]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

1) forget all the crap that was said to / about you. Without ever meeting you, I am sure you are a great person who deserves to be happy.

2) baby steps. Don't worry about the big picture of getting back to a fitness level you desire, just focus on getting a routine going and ease yourself into it.

You'll find its a snowball effect and you'll get back into it quicker than you expect and you'll gain that confidence.

I wish you all the best

what Dave said!

since i lost all my weight, my weight has fluctuated up and down, and im now 5-6 kilos above my goal weight (lowest weight i got to) and its frustrating the hell out of me. thats an estimate, i dont have a scale at home since i moved out and i thought i'd be eating less since i cant cook and im lazy haha


but i work full time at McDonald's as a manager, and more often than not when im dieing at work from starvation its just easier to grab a cheeseburger or 2.... :

anyway ive been on a training course all week and feeling crook cause i know im not burning the energy off that im taking in, again stuck at a maccas restaurant.

thats enough motivation for me to get back into it. that crook feeling from knowing that there is weight packing on. and the next 3 days i plan to lose at least a kilo and thats enough motivation for me. dunno how ill do it. but i will.

im probably waffling on now. but seriously, its hard, and working with temptation is impossible. but it can be done. you just have to pick yourself up and get going!!!!

this probably didnt help at all haha but good luck!

[Bluehoon]

Anyone familar with crossfit?

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I'll take a punt....

5kgs in 2 weeks = almost no carbs, the first couple of kg's will have been water weight that will stay lower whilst on low carb eating but the other 3kgs is pure weight loss. On the assumption that he is on high protein aswell, it is almost all fat.

Bingo! Ketosis, but not the Atkins way. I try to limit the amount of saturated fats etc, so no fry ups or anything nuts like that. At the end of the day there is enough stress on my organs doing this for 4-6 weeks, without loading up the cholesterol too.

The diet is basically no refined sugar, no fruit, limited carbs (basically small amount of nuts and green leafy vegetables etc), NO ALCOHOL!

Carbs are limited to about 2 cups of loose leaf salad veggies and 2 cups of roast style veggies (think squash, choko, but not potatoes or pumpkins or anything though)

My average diet at the moment:
Breakfast: Protein shake whey isolate (no sugar, or carbs), black coffee (no sugar)
Mid morning: Handful of almonds
Lunch: Half a chicken and salad (no dressing, no red capsicum or carrot etc)
Arvo: Handful pumpkin seeds
Dinner: Steak (sometimes 2) and 2 cups of vegetables (no peas, beans, potatoes or anything. No sauces, or anything that could contain refined sugar.

The weight is orginally a couple of kilos of water, which is great because you lose the bloat and slim down in the face right away. Then I lose about 3kg a week of fat.

Limited Exercise: Weights and cardio 3 times a week, fast walking twice a week. 2 days rest. Nothing stressful there at all, but you get really tired without the carbs or sugar.

[blueoval]

thats a pretty intense regime. But I like the dramatic effect it has.

I assume this routine is only for a limited time and for massive loss in short time for an event or end goal.

As a lifestyle for continued loss, I, not sure if this would be recommended.

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by blueoval

thats a pretty intense regime. But I like the dramatic effect it has.

I assume this routine is only for a limited time and for massive loss in short time for an event or end goal.

As a lifestyle for continued loss, I, not sure if this would be recommended.

Correct, 100%. Ketosis does put stress on your body. This is a 6 weeks max kick start... then increase carbs slowly with things like oats for breakfast and a few pieces of fruit here and there.

Once the energy is back, increase the training load by 50% and the losses should keep coming, albeit less dramatically.

[blueoval]

thats basically what Im doing now. I just a more balanced food program and exercise routine that has more gradual, longer lasting gains.

But the routine your doing Trippy is a great way to get started if your serious about weight loss and intend on continuing a healthier lifestyle afterwards.

I could have done it this way, but I know my body would have gone into shock...lol

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by blueoval

thats basically what Im doing now. I just a more balanced food program and exercise routine that has more gradual, longer lasting gains.

But the routine your doing Trippy is a great way to get started if your serious about weight loss and intend on continuing a healthier lifestyle afterwards.

I could have done it this way, but I know my body would have gone into shock...lol

Thanks, I will have to get into the long term type of program you're on in 4 weeks.

AC/DC concert tonight and no beer! Now that's commitment

What's your program look like?

[blueoval]

Pretty cruisy, but making progress.

Morning - 2 scrambled eggs on whole meal muffin, coffee, a piece of fruit
Mid Morning - handful of nuts (macadamias, almonds, cashews)
Lunch - 2 small wholemeal rolls with chicken, piece of fruit or small cup of noodles
Mid afternoon - some nuts
Dinner - balance of steamed veggies and small portion of meat

Snacks - on minor occasions, I might eat more nuts or handful of dried sultanas
Drinks consist of water and coffee.

Its not the best diet food, but Im seeing results gradually.

Exercise is 40mins cardio and 15mins light weight work.

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by -XR-

No matter what I do, I can't lose OR gain weight haha.

I eat like a horse and usually fairly heathily (meat and 3 veg for dinner), always have breakfast and a decent lunch.

Stayed at 55kgs for the last 5 years and i'm 176cm tall.

That being said, apparently i retain a fair bit of fluid because some days you can see I have a 6 pack and others its not very visable at all.

I stayed about 58kg from age 17 to 38, with a height of 177. With slight variations, I went up to 63kg after a couple years in the gym 3 times a week and down to 51kg when I got sick while traveling. It might sound skinny to most guys without seeing you but I have very light frame and at 63kg was fairly heavily muscled (more than most people at 80kg).

After I got sick it took me about 6 years to get back from 51kg to 58kg slowly slowly at which point I started getting things go wrong woth me left right and centre. I few years after that after much investigations and blood tests I concluded I was full of parasites, I guess from travling to one too many dodgy places or maybe I just allways did. Unsure: 0. But I took some pretty hardcore drugs to kill the likely bugs and now I weight 64kgs and can gain weight much more easily than before. Sounds a bit gross but the reality is most people are hosts to parasites of one kind or another, that's just part of being a living animal and I think it's a major thing with people that don't/can't gain weight easy and mostly those that are heavy users of B12 like I had become the last few years

[Smoke Pursuit]

I have lost 3 kgs in the last week just by not drinking softdrink (yes im addicted) and not eating carbs. Plus i have been going to the gym most days...

I hope to lose another 3 kg this week.

[nthnbeachesguy]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Bingo! Ketosis, but not the Atkins way. I try to limit the amount of saturated fats etc, so no fry ups or anything nuts like that. At the end of the day there is enough stress on my organs doing this for 4-6 weeks, without loading up the cholesterol too.

The diet is basically no refined sugar, no fruit, limited carbs (basically small amount of nuts and green leafy vegetables etc), NO ALCOHOL!

Carbs are limited to about 2 cups of loose leaf salad veggies and 2 cups of roast style veggies (think squash, choko, but not potatoes or pumpkins or anything though)

My average diet at the moment:
Breakfast: Protein shake whey isolate (no sugar, or carbs), black coffee (no sugar)
Mid morning: Handful of almonds
Lunch: Half a chicken and salad (no dressing, no red capsicum or carrot etc)
Arvo: Handful pumpkin seeds
Dinner: Steak (sometimes 2) and 2 cups of vegetables (no peas, beans, potatoes or anything. No sauces, or anything that could contain refined sugar.

The weight is orginally a couple of kilos of water, which is great because you lose the bloat and slim down in the face right away. Then I lose about 3kg a week of fat.

Limited Exercise: Weights and cardio 3 times a week, fast walking twice a week. 2 days rest. Nothing stressful there at all, but you get really tired without the carbs or sugar.

I dunno how much you weigh but that is more of a starvation diet than ketosis. You do realise your eating is ar5e about right? As far as I'm concerned no matter what dietary plan your using, the basic principle of breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper should be used. The only times I wouldn't be doing that are when you have had a heavy weight session in the evening and then your steaks would be fine, the other days you better off with a protein shake and if your still hungry a light salad.

Your entire daily caloric intake adds up to about 1200-1500 calories depending on the fat content of your chicken. Unless you are a midget or training to live in the Sandaakan death camp it's not enough.

Muscle is the engine of the body, food is the fuel and the metal, seats windows etc are the body. In essence what your trying to do is a build a car that is the right balance between power to weight and aesthetics to suit your needs. Your body is far more advanced then a car and as such, unlike a car engine, it can grow more cylinders if the demands placed upon it are high enough and the amount of fuel provided is enough.

Cut the amount of fuel and the easiest way to counteract that is for the body to lose a couple of cylinders (muscle). Some of the body panels may trim down as well but not as much as the engine. Thats basically what your doing when you cut calories below a maintenance level. So now your left with a situation where you have reduced the ability of the engine to burn fuel. When you return to normal fuelling habits the car stores the excess in the body by expanding the fuel tank creating a slower heavier car. By the way its a lot easier for the body to lose cylinders than it is to grow them generally speaking.

If your going to do a keto diet, eat some eggs in the morning, get some omega 3 eggs and scramble 3-4 for breakfast to go along with your shake. Go nuts and have some bacon with it. You need to keep your protein intake at least around 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body weight if you want any chance of hanging onto your current engine size.

If your a 100kg (220lb) guy at 20% bodyfat you have roughly 176lbs of lean body mass. In other words your going to need 176 grams of protein per day to keep the current engine size. Bearing in mind that one protein shake is about 30 grams, a chicken breast is about 25 and a steak about the same you would be lucky to be getting half what's needed. To try and gain size the generally accepted wisdom is you need 1.5 to 2 times your lbm in grams of protein per day.

There is a lot more to it but I will leave it at that for now, if anyone wants me to clarify anything let me know.

[loosey]

^ This man knows what he's talking about. ^

Originally Posted by motionless_xe

I've decided to aim at getting a six pack and eventually build my self up a bit too, i'm aiming at loosing about 10kg and getting my weight into the mid 70's then go from there. Each week I don't want to lose anymore than half a kilogram because I don't want to sacrifice muscle. Although last week I lost 2kg : /.

Just a quick update, I weighed myself Saturday and now weigh 75 kg, I still don't have a 6 pack so my new goal is to hit the mid/ high sixties. I'm eating more than what I was before (better food obviously) and still losing weight faster than I'd like to although I'm lifting more and seeing small gains in my arms/ shoulders.
Breakfast: rolled oats, with strawberries mixed in and some protien powder (using balance wpi at the moment)
Smoko: wrap (chicken breast, lettuce, tomato, carrot, corriander), fruit
Lunch: salad (see above) and chicken breast
Afternoon tea: tuna or canned chicken
--protien powder on gym days--
Dinner: meat and three veg

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by nthnbeachesguy

There is a lot more to it but I will leave it at that for now, if anyone wants me to clarify anything let me know.

What happens if you're a fat podgy bastard like me? Plenty of fuel stored everywhere.

I started work as a motor mechanic apprentice 3 weeks ago and I've already lost most of my double chin and I feel more fit, can do heaps of crap without feeling puffed. They get me to fetch everything, empty the bins, push around oil drums and move tyres/car batteries about. My gut hasn't changed but my face has, the rate I'm going I won't recognise myself in the mirror at the end of this year lol.

Here is my eating routine:

Breakfast: Toast or Smoothie
Smoko: Two "up and go" drinks, some parmesan cheese and crackers
Lunch: Bread roll with some filler like salami
Tea: What ever mum cooks, tonight it was soup but I don't each much these days.

I've noticed since I've started work, I dont have much of an appetite but I'm a real thirsty bastard now so I mainly fill up on drink.

[Sloth]

Towards the end of last year I was a lanky 75kg at 183cm, and had never been able to put anything on. Then in just a matter of months, I got to 100kg and none of my damn clothes would fit me anymore.

I have a pretty average diet, and do next to no exercise, but am wanting to change that.

I don't want to be buff or anything, I really just want to loose the pot and work the upper body a bit. Any pointers for a newbie?

[DBourne]

it's basic input v output

If you believe your input is low, increase output.

Start cycling, it's easy to do, fun and can get rid of the kilos pretty easily.

Bonus is you'll build good legs.

Apart from that maybe get some free weights? n take small steps.

Key is to make it enjoyable so you don't give it up

[nthnbeachesguy]

No one really wants to hear it but diet is the most important part of losing or gaining weight. Input versus output or calories in versus calories burned, all calories are not created equal though. Calories of protein are far more benficial than calories of fat. If your new to it all there are some very basic changes that you can make, breakfast should be your biggest meal, lunch should be up there but dinner should be light and consist of a protein source and some salad or vegies, cut the carbs out at dinner, have your steak and vegies, chicken and salad but forgo the pasta, potatoes and rice. Thats not to say you should pig out on bacon eggs and hash browns every morning though.

It doesn't take much to change those habits, you want to be a little hungry when you go to bed, that way when you wake up you're more likely to want to dig in to a big breakfast, after a week or so it will become fairly natural. If you can add in a 30-40 min walk before breakfast that will help you lose some fat even quicker. Personally I find the scales to be a bit of a waste of time and factor far to heavily for newbies when gauging there success or failure. If you haven't done any exercise for some time and you start a new regime, you will probably find the scales will stay the same or even go up. This does not mean it isn't working.

Muscle weighs more than fat and ppl who have not done any exercise tend to put muscle on pretty at the start of a new program. You will probably put on more muscle weight than you will lose fat for a while. Do yourself a favour and ditch the scales for the first month, buy yourself a tailors measuring tape and mirror instead. Measure your chest, waist at belly button, butt, upper leg, and upper arm before your start. Leave it for 2 weeks and then measure again. Hopefully your waist and butt measurements have gone and depending upon how fat you are and if you have incoporated weights the other measurements may have gone either way. The mirror will help gauge the changes as well.