Falcon better than Taurus? - Page 3

SteveJH · 17-04-2011, 03:25 AM

Yeah, but how would an xr6 turbo compare to a g8 gxp around a race track? I'm guessing the xr6t would be much closer in time to the G8 then it would to the SHO.

The GXP is listed on forza as 1825kg (from memory), the SHO as 1981kg. The xr6t in manual form has a kerb weight of 1728kg, so it should be sub 1800 even with a full tank of fuel.

In addition, I was using doing laps with it set to automatic transmission, which give the turbocharged SHO an advantage with its wide torque band.

Bobman · 17-04-2011, 04:44 AM

Have to admire the predictions here. If these forums were around in September, 1998, then everyone would be posting saying: "oh noes, the AU is a fail and there won't be a new Falcon after it".

Hey, even if the forums were around in 1988, there'd be posters saying: "The next Falcon will be replaced by an American sedan and a fresh Taurus will arrive in the mid 1990s to become a sales hit" - lol.

Some need to adopt a wait and see view, without the doom.

chevypower · 17-04-2011, 05:11 AM

If the forums were around in the mid 80s, people would have said "What is this fuel injection crap?" But digital speedos, pop up headlights and an auto reverse cassette player with 4 speakers would have been cool

Buntz · 17-04-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Taurus is too big, too heavy and even though it gets great fuel economy
it doesn't suit our market one bit. The car is physically much bigger than
our Falcon and probably has the presence that US customers expect in a
Full sized sedan, it also helps to distinguish the Taurus from the far more
popular Fusion which is around 100 mm shorter and 50mm narrower than
our Falcon.

Falcon is an in-betweener, a car with the interior space of a full size vehicle
and the external presence of a large mid sized car. If Falcon didn't have to
accommodate the long I-6, significant front overhang could be pruned,
bringing the length and weight down even further. Perhaps this is a
plan for a Future Falcon, one that shares a lot more under the skin with
the American Mustang. Maybe the key is to keep all that interior space
but wrap the external dimensions around the package much tighter...

That's cause it's going to share lots of stuff with the next mustang.

Even if it means losing the I6. And I think when that happens we should all have a minute silence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

We have had word that FoA is working on updates beyond SZ Terriotry abd FG II Falcon.

In case you missed it:

Hopefully we can trust the source.

snappy · 17-04-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

So what are you guys going to do in the next 12 months / 2 years / 5 years,
buy a brand new FPV V8 or Ford I-6 turbo?

or wait and buy a used one, 12-18 months old and save heaps of cash.

^^^^^ That IMO, is the real problem for Ford.

It's the,
"I'm not paying "48K for an XR8 when I can get one 18 months old for $33K"
That's killing Ford.

Waiting for models are my issue been waiting for the new egas model or the new ranger not sure which one yet . the tax benefits arn't as good on second hand cars so that doesn't bother me . But it seems like im waiting for a long time

**DJM83** · 17-04-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

We'll never get the Taurus. Fact is they arnt going to start up a RHD production for a few hundred sales a month at best.
We've already got the Falcon replacement, and thats the Mondeo.

And it does everything the same aswell.

FalconXV · 17-04-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Goddamn thats as heavy as a Territory. What were they thinking bringing a sedan to market weighing that much?! Fail.

This of course is the alternative to the local production of CD4 and importation of Mustang and derivatives. A next gen Falcon sharing all of its hard parts with Mustang. Use of corporate engines gearboxes and electrical systems is a no brainer, but I can see the next generation Mustang doing well with the FG's double wishbone front suspension and an evolved CB IRS...but the car would need an additional market to justify the business case...

What an interesting scenario this would be. Considering the yearly volume of Falcon matches the monthly volume of markets like US and UK, imagine if we inherited a 'bitsa' model with far more efficient packaging. A baseline model could maintain the I6 (for fleets/ taxis, durability), but east-west; DSC/Revo-Knuckle would dial out torque steer. A CD4 based chasis would no doubt be lighter, and the future chasis would no doubt address a current FG crticism of rigidity.
The Commodore currently appears a more nimble and efficient car than Falcon, this way it can maintain interior volume and turn the tables.
I am not averse to the idea of an FWD ute, I'm sure our talented engineers could even manage a 1 tonner. Also, considering some of the best handling cars have been FWD, they could incorporate lift-off oversteer and other mischevious things into our chassis tune.
These could be achieved with minor tweaks, at much lest cost than engineering a bespoke RWD platform. The rest could be spent on, say an alloy block, or electronic valve control.
As much as I wish an all new RWD model could be justified, I doubt this is possible now. This could well shape up to be a unique opportunity, and given how under Mullaly Ford Australia has become the Asia-Pac hub and shown superior engineering to the US, I can't see us being lumped with their garbage.
Maybe an exciting new paradigm beckons, and I hope they still call it Falcon, and keep it torquey (hence why they should think left-field and keep the I6).
Ford Australia should have someone scouring this forum for the ideas of the public daily!

SteveJH · 17-04-2011, 05:30 PM

The i6 is too long for an east/west setup. Remember its even longer then a v8.

The only i6 I know of currently produced and installed with a transverse setup would be the 3.0L volvo i6.

The i6's innings has almost been run, and looking at the torque numbers for the v6 ecoboost in the F-150 compared to the i6, it would probably make a more then capable replacement to the i6t. And with 13.8l/100km(city) and 9.4l/100km(highway) in a 2t car it should be very competitive with the i6t, especially in a lighter car like a falcon.

The i6t in the falcon has 17.2l/100km(city) and 8.5l/120km(highway). This admittedly doesnt take into account any differences in gearing or drag.

Paxton · 17-04-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Hopefully we can trust the source.

That source is rolled gold.

Bossxr8 · 17-04-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Hopefully we can trust the source.

Bob Graziano even mentioned it in all the posted articles, that they are continuing to invest in future Falcon models, at least the next one after this years in 2013.

Depending on Detroits approval though as is the usual practice.

MAGPIE · 17-04-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

We'll never get the Taurus. Fact is they arnt going to start up a RHD production for a few hundred sales a month at best.
We've already got the Falcon replacement, and thats the Mondeo.

God help us then if that is what we have to look forward to as a large car

It is a fine car in most repects but it has no powaaaah

**DJM83** · 18-04-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

God help us then if that is what we have to look forward to as a large car

It is a fine car in most repects but it has no powaaaah

Thats what FPV is for, its not like the current falcon is a powerhouse (XR6T/G6ET) aside.

bigsta · 18-04-2011, 08:04 PM

its just a fact that American cars never sell well down under no matter the brand, i like the yank tanks but as dodge as ford oz build quality is at times the Americans make us look like rolls royce in comparison.

Paxton · 18-04-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsta

its just a fact that American cars never sell well down under no matter the brand, i like the yank tanks but as dodge as ford oz build quality is at times the Americans make us look like rolls royce in comparison.

You've not been in a Brand New American Ford, have you? These new generation of American Fords are cheese and chalk to the old ones.

vztrt · 18-04-2011, 08:20 PM

So what's the best selling American car in Oz?

Buntz · 18-04-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bob Graziano even mentioned it in all the posted articles, that they are continuing to invest in future Falcon models, at least the next one after this years in 2013.

Depending on Detroits approval though as is the usual practice.

Do you know which article specifically mate? Coz I've missed it, and I want to see it with my own eyes. Not that I don't trust you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

That source is rolled gold.

So you're saying... appearance wise... it's all okay, but underneath it has no substance of value?

Buntz · 18-04-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Thats what FPV is for, its not like the current falcon is a powerhouse (XR6T/G6ET) aside.

They are no bloody slouch either.

A base model XT could take on a SHO.

**DJM83** · 18-04-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They are no bloody slouch either.

A base model XT could take on a SHO.

Yeah because people buy XT I6 falcons for their athletic ability. Mondeo does 90% of the things a falcon does and its better built.

Buntz · 18-04-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Yeah because people buy XT I6 falcons for their athletic ability. Mondeo does 90% of the things a falcon does and its better built.

Okay. But not all to the fact it'd go toe to toe with it. Suspension would probably be in the same 'sporty' league as the american. And as for 90%. Quite a number to just pull out of the air.

But a larger RWD car is a blessing in the city with tight spots, due to it's reduced and unsullied turning circle, and steering feel.

**DJM83** · 18-04-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Okay. But not all to the fact it'd go toe to toe with it. Suspension would probably be in the same 'sporty' league as the american. And as for 90%. Quite a number to just pull out of the air.

But a larger RWD car is a blessing in the city with tight spots, due to it's reduced and unsullied turning circle, and steering feel.

Bit of a generalisation there.

Large RWD a blessing in tight spots,

90% is being generous it does almost everything as good as the falcon. But being better built is a big thing.
This isnt about the Mondeo anyway its about the Taurus and Falcon

Buntz · 18-04-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Bit of a generalisation there.

Large RWD a blessing in tight spots,

90% is being generous it does almost everything as good as the falcon. But being better built is a big thing.
This isnt about the Mondeo anyway its about the Taurus and Falcon

You brought up Mondeo. And yes. The falcon of similar size to Mondeo would be easier to wield through tight spots. Without question.

Then add the proportions for a large V6 FWD... this would be even worse.

jpd80 · 18-04-2011, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

So what's the best selling American car in Oz?

Camry.
31,000 units last month.

**DJM83** · 18-04-2011, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

You brought up Mondeo. And yes. The falcon of similar size to Mondeo would be easier to wield through tight spots. Without question.

Then add the proportions for a large V6 FWD... this would be even worse.

No i didnt.
FWD? SHO is AWD.
V6 FWD, AWD wont make a difference, the proportions will though.
Anyway its not like the SHO is a competitor for the XT they are different cars.

Buntz · 18-04-2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

No i didnt.
FWD? SHO is AWD.
V6 FWD, AWD wont make a difference, the proportions will though.
Anyway its not like the SHO is a competitor for the XT they are different cars.

Yes you did. Re-read this thread.

I know that SHO is AWD. It's a tranverse on demand system however. Not a longitudinal dedicated system. It's also two tonnes. I was stating that an XT could match it for sportiness. Considering American suspension tuning too.

And yes, a heavy front end connected to the wheels will be significant. As will the proportions as you stated.

Bossxr8 · 19-04-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Do you know which article specifically mate? Coz I've missed it, and I want to see it with my own eyes. Not that I don't trust you.
So you're saying... appearance wise... it's all okay, but underneath it has no substance of value?

GoAuto. He specifically says they are continuing to invest in future Falcons.

**Polyal** · 19-04-2011, 11:23 AM

Id be interested to see how he would answer the question until when?

aussie muscle · 19-04-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

Have to admire the predictions here. If these forums were around in September, 1998, then everyone would be posting saying: "oh noes, the AU is a fail and there won't be a new Falcon after it".

Hey, even if the forums were around in 1988, there'd be posters saying: "The next Falcon will be replaced by an American sedan and a fresh Taurus will arrive in the mid 1990s to become a sales hit" - lol.

Some need to adopt a wait and see view, without the doom.

But falcon sales in 1988 weren't nearly as low as they are now.

burnz · 19-04-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah I find it interesting that Australian motoring journalists keep being invited to drive the Taurus at the Michigan proving grounds...

alltho this ^^^ question was glossed over, it has to be the most valid..

why indeed??

Road_Warrior · 19-04-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah I find it interesting that Australian motoring journalists keep being invited to drive the Taurus at the Michigan proving grounds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

alltho this ^^^ question was glossed over, it has to be the most valid..

why indeed??

They drove it once - hardly "keep being invited". Drive has been on a Taurus crusade for the past 18 months so I would suggest will do anything to keep the idea of theirs alive that the Taurus is next off the boat here.

All the Taurus talk in the context of the current model is completely and utterly useless because the next gen car will be nothing like the current D3 based car.

**DJM83** · 19-04-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yes you did. Re-read this thread.

I know that SHO is AWD. It's a tranverse on demand system however. Not a longitudinal dedicated system. It's also two tonnes. I was stating that an XT could match it for sportiness. Considering American suspension tuning too.

And yes, a heavy front end connected to the wheels will be significant. As will the proportions as you stated.

No i didnt i quoted someone mentioning the Mondeo, have a read.