September sales numbers: Drive.com

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

That's always affected sales when a model has been out for a while and whispers of a "series 2" come out.
Until we bought our FG G6E, I had always followed the common philosophy of "never ever ever buy the first model of anything...always wait for series 2 at least". I figured it wasn't that much of a leap from the previous model so we should be pretty right.

I agree. Although these days with the warranties available, theres no reason not to get the series 1 of anything anymore. If you like it in the showroom then why wait? You may die tomorrow waiting for the series 2.

The last series 1 of any ford I had was an NU fairlane. The suspension was vastly different on the series 2 and the car felt far different for it.
BA was sorted series 1, and so on and so forth.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by phillyc

The sales figures for FPV/HSV are included in those respective sedan/ute/lwb already.

Is that right? The build plate and branding would suggest they are a different manufacturer. I have no idea though, just assumed HSV and FPV are counted separately.

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by ltd

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO.
Camry should never be off limits to criticism. In fact, the only time Camry and the words "off limits" should be used together in a sentence is "Camry is off limits for sale to the general public."

Perception has Camry as safe and reliable and cheap etc; all the calling cards of the bad driver.
Why is it Camry attracts the right lane hoggers, the underspeeders (40 in a 60), the serial stoppers (slam on the brakes in the middle of traffic to look for a number), the nervous wrecks capitulating about their GPS and its instructions to make a U turn; the slow turners, the generally lost and the biggest proportion of idiotic, ignorant and stupid drivers?
What about the FACT that they're the weapon of choice of those who recently immigrated here from countries where either a rickshaw, cow, bullock or a bicycle were the mode of transport, and this whole car thing perplexes them, so they buy a camry?

It's because these people who hate driving and are scared of it feel safer inside a refrigerator or other white good with wheels. They've been brainwashed by others of their ilk that Toyota is the best so they buy it no questions asked. They have no interest in driving and therefore no interest in cars, so they then spend the rest of their driving lives being moving obstacles for the rest of us. It's a scientifically proven fact.
What's also amazing is the number of camrys with badge engineering; TRD badges. Isn't that interweb and text-speak for Tard? Apt, very apt, I think all camrys should have them.

So Prydey I say no. We should never consider the camry as being off limits for if we do, it's just another form of politically correct censorship.

Yes Aualright I said political. I thought it was pertinent to the buying habits of the country where the private market and to a lesser extent the public fleets sales are flat in lieu of low business and consumer confidence exacurbated by political instability here, and the rest of the world. If you speak to the average man in the street, you'll find every one of them is worried about their future and the likelihood of having a job in the next twelve months. How this relates to buying a car is that less will commit to tying themselves up for 5 years of finance if they're not sure about having means to pay for it within its term. A new leader of the nation would make some changes which would affect business and consumer confidence. I mentioned no names as per T&C, but I would think in this economic climate it is a significant contributing factor to peoples propensity to buy new cars.

The wowsers will get upset with your post, but I have to say I love it. I received a Toyota email the other day offering 3.9% finance, after looking at the Toyota range, I can honestly say that they don't make one vehicle that I would consider buying. Just white goods on wheels.
I recall someone once saying (maybe on this forum) that 'a Camry is for people who have given up on life'. That might be extreme, but from an auto enthusiast point of view, it beggars belief that they sell so well.

[2011G6E]

With warrantees you could be right, but usually the Series 2 will have a lot of features the Series 1 doesn't have. When we were car hunting we were even told by the Holden dealer we visited to basically ignore the series one cars out in the yard and have a look at the series 2 sedan, as it had things standard (like the Holden IQ touch screen) that were expensive options in the series one. Same with the Fords usually.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Last month's combined sales of Falcon, Territory & Ute neatly coincide with the current production level,
Ford is selling everything it makes or more correctly, balancing stock to sales.....

I'm still not agreeing with you on this one.. They are only doing so by use of down days.. There was 22 working days in september. 22 x 209 = 4598... They did not & have not sold 4,600 local cars in many, many, many months... Sales need to lift or another rebalance down is needed as down days shouldn't be needed to balance stock!!

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by MickyB

The wowsers will get upset with your post, but I have to say I love it. I received a Toyota email the other day offering 3.9% finance, after looking at the Toyota range, I can honestly say that they don't make one vehicle that I would consider buying. Just white goods on wheels.
I recall someone once saying (maybe on this forum) that 'a Camry is for people who have given up on life'. That might be extreme, but from an auto enthusiast point of view, it beggars belief that they sell so well.

What do you drive?

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by SCUD

What do you drive?

Do you still work for Toyota?

[Poetic Justice]

I do. And I find the company boring as bat **** generally speaking, but I think most of the comments posted on this forum are generalising the company from about 10 years ago. That or they base everything on cars they've hired on holidays and let me tell you, if people only thought of XT Falcons when they wondered whether Ford was a good brand would probably think the same thing.

[EFFalcon]

Yeah, I actually like the look of a modded Aurion.
but theres not much in the way of Hero cars :P

its an easy assumption to make!

[Ford_The_Win]

There's nothing wrong with the Camry or Toyotas. Yes they are still boring, but most people would rather have a car that works properly than one that is fun to drive but is full of design flaws and has crappy interior trim. I'd gladly own another Hilux.

[Poetic Justice]

Problem is everyone associated Toyota simply with the Camry and the Aurion, and to the lesser extent the Corolla because, as has shown in August, the Corolla sells particularly well.

Other vehicles in the range are fantastic. Prado, Kluger, LC200. I'd be hard pressed to find too much 'boring' about those models, they're not supposed to be performance orientated so you can't really pin that on them.

My current Aurion that I drive is awesome. Pricey, but far from boring.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm still not agreeing with you on this one.. They are only doing so by use of down days.. There was 22 working days in september. 22 x 209 = 4598... They did not & have not sold 4,600 local cars in many, many, many months... Sales need to lift or another rebalance down is needed as down days shouldn't be needed to balance stock!!

Sigh,
There were down days in September and not all of the 22 day you subscribe were worked.

August:
Territory - 1625; Falcon - 1665; Falcon Ute - 593
That's 3,883

September:
Falcon – 1708; Territory – 1395; Ute - 752
That's 3,855

See the pattern?



Now 3,855 divided by 209 = 18.45 days so let's say 19 day with exports to NZ.
That's 19 days......

So, is it possible that Broadmeadows had three down days in August and September?

You bet.

Does Ford need to down balance the line?

No way.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Is that right? The build plate and branding would suggest they are a different manufacturer. I have no idea though, just assumed HSV and FPV are counted separately.

They aren't counted separately.

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I'd gladly own another Hilux.

Driving one a lot at work I wouldn't. Terrible vehicle.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sigh,
There were down days in September and not all of the 22 day you subscribe were worked.

That is my point!! There should be NO down days.. The only reason they have the right stock number is becuase of the days.... Down days are not free days for Ford!! They cost Ford money for nothing!! They should be working 100% of the time.. This is the problem, I'm talking about.

In the last 2 months, they have had 6 down days, which cost money for nothing built in return!! Also 3 days / by 22 days is 13%. 13% is a big number of day downs each month!!

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is my point!! There should be NO down days.. The only reason they have the right stock number is becuase of the days.... Down days are not free days for Ford!! They cost Ford money for nothing!! They should be working 100% of the time.. This is the problem, I'm talking about.

In the last 2 months, they have had 6 down days, which cost money for nothing built in return!! Also 3 days / by 22 days is 13%. 13% is a big number of day downs each month!!

I agree, so what is the solution?

[vztrt]

I don't get why Ford don't think they can sell another 660 units.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I agree, so what is the solution?

If I knew the answer to that, I'd be sitting on my millions by now & not living in a unit!!

[MickyB]

Originally Posted by SCUD

What do you drive?

Lightly modded BFII XR6 Turbo. The only modern Toyota I've driven recently is an Aurion. I liked the engine, but the rest of the car wasn't overly exciting. Don't get me wrong, if your primary objective is to get from A to B, then the Toyota's are fine. If everyone thought like that however, we wouldn't have forums like this one. The range just doesn't excite me, until they bring out the FT-86 anyway

[Windsor220]

Interesting to see that Holden is living off Cruze and Commodore. The rest of their range isn't doing much. Ford has a decent spread. Just need Falcon to get over 2000 a month and try and get Focus moving.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm still not agreeing with you on this one.. They are only doing so by use of down days.. There was 22 working days in september. 22 x 209 = 4598... They did not & have not sold 4,600 local cars in many, many, many months... Sales need to lift or another rebalance down is needed as down days shouldn't be needed to balance stock!!

There was also a week of shutdown last week of September.

Production is currently being matched to orders, but Ford still need the odd down day to clear stock left over from months earlier.

With LPi coming on stream now there should not be any extra cars made. Even better when the MkII comes on line.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Interesting to see that Holden is living off Cruze and Commodore. The rest of their range isn't doing much. Ford has a decent spread. Just need Falcon to get over 2000 a month and try and get Focus moving.

Hasn't that always been the case though? I mean, the Rodeo/Colorado hardly set the world on fire in terms of sales back in the day. I see very few of the new Barinas, I saw one of those Barina Sparks the other day for the first time, I reckon they would be outnumbered by the Mazda 2 and Fiesta by five to one.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Hasn't that always been the case though? I mean, the Rodeo/Colorado hardly set the world on fire in terms of sales back in the day. I see very few of the new Barinas, I saw one of those Barina Sparks the other day for the first time, I reckon they would be outnumbered by the Mazda 2 and Fiesta by five to one.

At one stage I think Holdens equivalent were outselling every Ford model or close to it. Captiva, Barina, Astra were all doing ok. Even Epica managed to sell some in the early stages.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is my point!! There should be NO down days.. The only reason they have the right stock number is becuase of the days.... Down days are not free days for Ford!! They cost Ford money for nothing!! They should be working 100% of the time.. This is the problem, I'm talking about.

In the last 2 months, they have had 6 down days, which cost money for nothing built in return!! Also 3 days / by 22 days is 13%. 13% is a big number of day downs each month!!

I was under the impression that workers get 50% pay for down days and
is preferable to building excess cars that become harder to sell without discounts

I know that rebalancing the line is a huge PITA as everything is timed and the tasks have
to be redone supplier deliveries re timed, and staff retrained to get timing right so everything flows OK.

Why on earth would Ford reconsider another rebalance when they are expection a lift from LPG?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I was under the impression that workers get 50% pay for down days and
is preferable to building excess cars that become harder to sell without discounts

I know that rebalancing the line is a huge PITA as everything is timed and the tasks have
to be redone supplier deliveries re timed, and staff retrained to get timing right so everything flows OK.

Why on earth would Ford reconsider another rebalance when they are expection a lift from LPG?

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying here!! What I am saying is Ford is NOT selling everything they can build (at 100% of current line rate). Which is what you where saying earlier, that started my comments. The are building WHAT they can sale. Small difference, but its there!! I was just saying sales need to lift, which just happens to be the last thing you said too!! And if sales don't lift, a rebalance is needed.. Simiple!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying here!! What I am saying is Ford is NOT selling everything they can build (at 100% of current line rate). Which is what you where saying earlier, that started my comments. The are building WHAT they can sale. Small difference, but its there!! I was just saying sales need to lift, which just happens to be the last thing you said too!! And if sales don't lift, a rebalance is needed.. Simiple!!

No chance of a re-balance now, not with LPi coming on line and MkII and ecoboost coming over the next few months.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

No chance of a re-balance now, not with LPi coming on line and MkII and ecoboost coming over the next few months.

Boss the way Diesel Territory is going off (now 80%), you'd have to think a diesel Falcon would do incredibly well too...

But still Ecoboost 2.0 will test the waters, I'd just prefer to see the diesel in there....

[fg_nitro]

I do see the need to spend upwards of 35k to 60k plus on xr6 turbo or fpv when a 600cc bike does it better performance wise. Granted you don't get 5 seats. However looking at my potential next car purchase Ford are off the list and I have owned various falcons from EB to FG.

Reason? Build quality. Resale and poor service.

I also do not want an exciting daily driver. Something smooth, quiet, reliable and has enough space to deal with whatever else.

I do not think some people here realise that people have changed their thoughts around the product offerings in the market. Look at sales trends over the last decade.

why would you want to own a falcon?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying here!! What I am saying is Ford is NOT selling everything they can build (at 100% of current line rate). Which is what you where saying earlier, that started my comments. The are building WHAT they can sale. Small difference, but its there!! I was just saying sales need to lift, which just happens to be the last thing you said too!! And if sales don't lift, a rebalance is needed.. Simiple!!

It's never that simple and it's becoming more obvious you don't understand rebalancing,
it's a lot more than just speed up or slow down the line, everything has to change.

It costs Ford a lot to rebalance, that is why when there is a variation in sales to production,
controlling by either overtime shifts or down days is much more preferable than constant rebalancing.

Ford went for (8) months at 269/day and three day weeks before finally rebalancing to
reduce down days, that should tell you something about the economics of rebalancing..
The trick is to balance at the right level to allow trimming with some overtime or down days.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's never that simple and it's becoming more obvious you don't understand rebalancing,
it's a lot more than just speed up or slow down the line, everything has to change.

It costs Ford a lot to rebalance, that is why when there is a variation in sales to production,
controlling by either overtime shifts or down days is much more preferable than constant rebalancing.

Ford went for (8) months at 269/day and three day weeks before finally rebalancing to
reduce down days, that should tell you something about the economics of rebalancing..
The trick is to balance at the right level to allow trimming with some overtime or down days.

I know all this, but you're not understanding me!!! Ford is currently over producting by 13%.. If this contunies long term, than a rebalance is needed is all I was trying to say!! Yes Lpi, FG2 & I4 are coming, bla, bla.. But they need to lift sales or a rebalance is needed based on the sales we have had for over a year!!! To sugguest Fords recent build rate is right (which is what started all this) is wrong. Anyway, that is my last post on this topic!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I know all this, but you're not understanding me!!! Ford is currently over producting by 13%.. !

And you're not listening either,

Ford is not overproducing by 13% because.......... those vehicles are not being built.