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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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02-05-2011, 12:41 PM | #61 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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Bungara and Big Damo.
Just incase you don't know. Radio waves are electromagnetic waves, so is light just at a different wave length. As such, radio waves travel at the speed of light, which is considerably faster then either the speed of sound or the speed of a supersonic rifle bullet. No point running from the police, you could never outrun their most powerful weapon, the radio. Regards, Stephen |
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02-05-2011, 01:12 PM | #62 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Next thing someone who was clever enough to successfully complete year 8 maths will say that the speed limit must have been 100 for all the values to work. |
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02-05-2011, 01:23 PM | #63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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What? police are going to throw their radios at criminals???
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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02-05-2011, 06:32 PM | #64 | ||||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Daniel |
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02-05-2011, 07:09 PM | #65 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 197
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[QUOTE=Dave3911]Couple of things.
2. There is no "legal" speed cap that police have to adhere to (in any state that I'm aware of). Some state police force's do impose policy-based maximum's, but these are not law. As a general rule the law allows them to break the limit as long as it is 'reasonable' to the circumstances. WA is capped at 140km. Thats if it ever goes above that speed they must abort
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1972 XAGT Falcon Sedan in Red Pepper 2006 Ford ZC Escape XLT 2009 FPV GS Build # 105 in Ego |
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02-05-2011, 08:56 PM | #66 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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It seems, depending on the individual system in use, I may stand corrected. Thank you very much for the information as I find it very interesting. Having said that, based on the amount of times my vehicle has "dropped off the radar", I find it difficult to believe our system has the required absolute certainty of accuracy to bring any disciplinary action or charges against an operator of one of our vehicles. It seems our service feels the same as the 1 officer that was charged for exceeding the speed limit by a unreasonable amount had no AVL data entered into the court case. Perhaps it was because it was not needed but perhaps it was because the accuracy and reliability of the data is not up to legal standards. Interesting thought though.
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02-05-2011, 09:00 PM | #67 | ||||||||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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I will leave it at this. In your experience you say that "speed kills" and this applies to all vehicles, even emergency vehicles with highly trained operators, well serviced and maintained vehicles and all the emergency gear. That is your right to have that opinion. My opinion based on my experience within the emergency services is in the right circumstances, exceeding the speed limit in safe conditions can be as safe but often safer than the average driver traveling at the speed limit. This is my opinion based on 1000's of code 1 drives in all weather and traffic conditions. If the government were to take your view and ban the use of higher speeds in emergency vehicles in appropriate conditions, I would not want to live here, the body count would stack up. I had two cases today where 1-2 minutes more in response time would have carried significant risk to their life. Fortunately I am allowed to do 120 km/h in a 100 km/h zone, shave off that 1-2 minutes and they are alive tonight. Quote:
It seems from your signature that you have on a number of occasions survived speeding in the right conditions, once at 227 km/h (more than twice the open road limit).
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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02-05-2011, 09:23 PM | #68 | ||
Custom FG XR6!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Perth - N.O.R
Posts: 1,094
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This ban has being lifted as of today. Was on the news
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2009 FG XR6 BUILT BY FORD, TWEAKED BY ME!
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02-05-2011, 10:49 PM | #69 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
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Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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03-05-2011, 07:15 AM | #70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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Quote:
As for my stance on speeding - don't actually believe the "speed kills" mantra. I am highly sceptical about the whole "wipe off five" phenomenon and revenue raising associated with enforcement. My comments relate to the thought process involved with those who actually believe that rubbish. If you believe the mantra, then you would have to support limiting all vehicles, such as police and ambulances. Yes i have gone over the limit (by some considerable margin on back roads in rural areas and I survived! I fully agree that it depends upon the conditions, and experience and skill allow us to work out what is safe and when.
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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03-05-2011, 07:31 AM | #71 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ipswich, Qld
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To be honest, in that case, I wouldn't have been rushing at all - if she doesn't give a crap about her health...why should anyone else? But that's beside the point - good to hear that the ban has in fact been lifted and common sense seems to have prevailed in this instance.
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----------------------------------------------------- 2012 Focus ST Tangerine Scream Continually having a battle of wits with unarmed opponents. Sez Photo's by Sez |
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04-05-2011, 03:36 AM | #72 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 589
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No idea what this was about - just FYI :
"A 21-year-old Perth police officer has been found guilty of driving dangerously during a pursuit." http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2....htm?site=news |
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04-05-2011, 02:36 PM | #73 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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04-05-2011, 02:47 PM | #74 | ||
under new management
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,325
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I feel sorry for the bloke who had his nice looking Falcon stolen which he will never get back, and the bloke who's fence was demolished.
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XW tarmac rally car, 3/4 race cam, NGK spark plugs |
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04-05-2011, 03:00 PM | #75 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parkdale, Vic
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Think about this. Any emergency services vehicle, in a documented emergency situation may exceed the speed limit under lights and sirens. The driver is 100% responsible for ensuring that it's safe to proceed through red lights, intersections, rail crossings, etc.
If, under lights and sirens, you go through a red light and get hit by someone driving along oblivious to you (wearing iPod headphones for example), you hit & hurt or kill them, then you as the emergency vehicle driver are 100% culpable & responsible. Don't think for one minute in a civil case that the service will back you up. They won't. You'll be sued by the family and possibly lose everything. That's how the Police Union are backing their members. It's not worth apprehending a stolen car if you stand to lose your house in to the bargain by hurting an innocent bystander. As an SES member with EVA status, I have to think about this every time I put the lights & sirens on. So does an Ambo driver, CFA, MFB, or Police officer. Would you take that risk?
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"You can't fight stupid people - there's just too many of them" |
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04-05-2011, 07:53 PM | #76 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
If someone, not paying attention comes through a clear lane after all that and is involved in a crash with the emergency vehicle, that vehicle is at fault. This is because despite the green light they still have a legal responsibility to drive with due care and attention. They also have a legal responsibility to yield right if way to an emergency vehicle under lights and siren. We have had a number of vehicle involved in a crash in those circumstances and none of the drivers had any case to answer and the service did support their actions.
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04-05-2011, 08:09 PM | #77 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Sun City, North Australis
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Quote:
Um under lights and siren traffic MUST give way to them....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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04-05-2011, 10:10 PM | #78 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parkdale, Vic
Posts: 1,016
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Jim, read what I said again. I said "driver oblivious''.
How can they give way if they have their head up their butt & don't notice? Also, it is not written in to the road rules as far as I know that a driver MUST give way to an emergency vehicle. It was explained to me very clearly by the copper that trained me for EVS that in many countries they don't, we have a country full of people from different cultures that don't as a rule give way to ambulances or fire truck, and beware of people in Mercs & BMWs as they are the worst offenders for not giving way. Police don't enforce this, and they travel under EVS more often than most. A firey was reamed when he stopped at the lights, checked that the intersection was clear, but a car came tearing through from behind a tram that he didn't/couldn't see. Even though he was not speeding through the intersection the driver of the car got hit & died. It's not open and shut. the civil case takes a year or two, your life is on hold for that time and you don't know whether you will win or lose (your house). In this case the firey lost, because the coroner found that his truck was over weight (full of that foam stuff), he didn't know, but as it was over weight it was found that he couldn't stop in time. Civil cases only require 20% guilt, unlike criminal that require 80% or more. I ask again - would you take that risk?
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"You can't fight stupid people - there's just too many of them" |
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04-05-2011, 10:17 PM | #79 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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You also cant plead ignorance when it comes to the law.... if a driver is oblivious to his surroundings who is at fault? The driver? or the person he runs into?
And yes quite a lot of drivers out there are in laa laa land and dont have one clue as to what is happening 2 meters past their bumpers. Are we again to make more allowances for people who are.... umm.... too dumb to drive?
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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04-05-2011, 10:23 PM | #80 | ||
I totalled my XR6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,193
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I'd say the person who is driving a vehicle but not taking stock of their surroundings would be at fault.
How hard is it to simply "pay attention" whilst driving!?
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04-05-2011, 10:54 PM | #81 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Parkdale, Vic
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It's not criminal law we are talking about. It's Civil. Different kettle of fish. You go out under light & sirens, kill some kid who wasn't paying attention (but was crossing through on a green light, you on a red). His/her family sues you, you are screwed.
You went through a red. You are finished, regardless of EVS status. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just how it is. Hell, even if you are found not guilty, imagine what the lawyers would cost you anyway. How hard is it to 'pay attention' while driving? Not very hard, but that doesn't mean people do it. Even good drivers let their guard down occasionally.
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"You can't fight stupid people - there's just too many of them" |
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04-05-2011, 11:01 PM | #82 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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What a load of rubbish, who cares what the road laws of other countries are, in Australia all road users have a legal obligation to give way to emergency vehicles and a legal obligation to drive with due care and attention.
Having been directly involved with a few emergency vehicle crash investigations, I know for a fact your information is greatly flawed and you are misinforming other members here. By the way, cops do not travel under emergency conditions much at all, in fact so rarely that all the cops I work with still get a bit excited about it because it us so rare. They would not travel under lights and sirens 10% of what we do.
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04-05-2011, 11:09 PM | #83 | |||
Force Fed Fords
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Location: Victoria
Posts: 5,556
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04-05-2011, 11:40 PM | #84 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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A member acting within the policies and procedures of their service can not be held financially responsible for the consequences of the conduct of their duty, that is the concept of vicarious liability, the service is responsible, not the employee.
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04-05-2011, 11:46 PM | #85 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
A competent operator of an emergency vehicle will approach the red light at a speed they can respond to hazards, slow and stop before the intersection to ensure it is clear before proceeding through. Therefore your kid scenario will not happen as long as they use due care and attention, if they don't they should find a new job as we don't need cowboys in the emergency services.
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05-05-2011, 12:01 AM | #86 | ||
Call me Spud
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,995
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@ GTP Owner
160kph in an ambulance? That would be so dangerous no matter what conditions. I would have reported and refused to work with that person again. 120 in the ambo can be a hairy ride, especially on a windy day. We have been told never exceed 140 as the tyres are not rated above that, plus it is just down right dangerous and reckless. Even in a 110 zone I have only driven 125-130. |
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05-05-2011, 12:35 AM | #87 | ||
Authorised Tank Commander
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Perth Wa
Posts: 136
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Two words.....
PITT MANEUVER ! I would gladly take my stolen car back with some bullet holes or damaged if it meant the criminal was caught. Mmmmm... missiles in police choppers, not a bad idea. It's about time the criminals were actually afraid of the consequences of doing something wrong. If I even thought of stealing a car when I was young, my old man would have beaten me with a steel rod for giving the family a bad name. Actions should have appropriate punishment
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05-05-2011, 12:45 AM | #88 | |||||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 316
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Ducati888, i'm going to have to echo the comments of GeckoGT here. You are severly misinformed and spreading a whole heap of misinformation.
I too was a volunteer emergency responder (for 7 years, with the fireys in a south eastern metropolitian suburb) & I have driven 14+ tonne fire trucks under emergency conditions more times than I can remember. I was also with a brigade that was involved in an incident where our truck proceeded through a red light, was t-boned by another vehicle and rolled. Thankfully nobody was seriously hurt, but it did result in a rather lengthy and drawn out civil case over damages. It was nothing like you describe. At all. Quote:
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I'm not trying to have a go at you, but if your location details are accurate and you live in Parkdale - i'm going to assume your either a member of Chelsea or Moorabbin unit, possibly Springvale. None of those units are RCR accredited and the amount of times each of them get an EVS job a year would probably struggle to get into double figures. How much EVS experience do you have? Quote:
Coincidentally a very good friend of mine who was a copper in QLD has just moved back to Vic with his young family. He managed to get a lateral entry transfer. I had a beer with him the other day and he was saying how he'd done more urgent duty driving in two weeks down here than he had in the last 18 months in QLD! |
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05-05-2011, 02:20 AM | #89 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
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Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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05-05-2011, 02:25 AM | #90 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
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Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
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Quote:
Criminal law requires a proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Judgement on a civil tort such as negligence requires proof on the "balance of probability", that is obviously more than 20%.
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Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
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