GM have about 100 days to go??

[fte50]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What exactly is "greed" anyway? is it the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation? In fact its a directors responsibility to ensure the business they control remains profitable..
I cant see any business besides no profit organizations turning their back on making money.. so in the context of the car manufacturers and their current financial woes its hard to see where they've been "greedy", because clearly not many of them are turning a profit....

Greed is NOT the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation. This is smart business sense.
Greed is in fact the opposite. Its risking what you have (proven product) and replacing it with a clearly proven inferior product just hoping it would work,(to make a quick buck) when all the r&d proves its a lesser product. Its about cutting ties with 'proven quality' component /engineering suppliers and being prepared to accept an inferior product because it costs half the price.
The problem is the cost saving is not passed onto the consumer, hence generating a higher turnover in sales/profit- its a negative mindset thinking the global consumer will accept at any cost for the sake of a badge. That is greed. That is also mismanagement.
The same management teams that are responsible for the future /destiny of its employees, yet have no regard for their welfares. The same management teams that sign off on a dodgy product and, in situ of a product not 'taking off' lay off its workforce - replace when needed with casual labour. Only a number. Ofcourse the shopfloor workers lose their jobs, and the 'managers' get a relocation/transfer.
On a final note, if no one here is convinced of the greed, take a trip to one of the 'Major' car manufacturing plants in asia/egypt or an emerging manufacturing nation. These are the expert manufacturers.
Despite these countries having very low to no govt regulated safety/work standards etc, the companies themselves have the collective engineering/regulation expertise and knowledge aquired to create safe manufacturing plants and help the local govts develop safety/work standards/policy. They should be leaders in these fields. In contrast however, despite their knowledge, they allow shortcuts and unsafe work practices to exist - it costs them less. They promote it by instantly sacking any 'activist' employees willing to stand up for their rights. Plants in the west that cost big $ to upgrade to meet new safety standards get relocated knowing they are 'non compliant'. Greed.
Now i will join the others in their cave.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What exactly is "greed" anyway? is it the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation? In fact its a directors responsibility to ensure the business they control remains profitable..
I cant see any business besides no profit organizations turning their back on making money.. so in the context of the car manufacturers and their current financial woes its hard to see where they've been "greedy", because clearly not many of them are turning a profit....

Greed is when for Example the Banks make Record Profits year after year & fail to drop Interest rates when the Official cash rate Falls.

Oil Companies who fail to Drop the Wholesale price of Fuel after the Barrel price has Fallen by 50% even if the Dollar has Fallen by 30% Coz that leves a 20% Gap!

Greed are large Companies who must make extra Profits each year even if they make huge amounts already!

See enough of a Profit in well Enough & you do not need to make more & more every year when you already make Billions a year!

It is not all about Greedy Shareholders who demand more & more in Returns.

It is about the Customers of a Business as well who are sick of Paying More in Interest rates or Food Prices etc....

Many people are Greedy & they are Pathetic!

I am happy to make enough to pay my Bills & Understand I do not make enough to have Huge Bills such as a $60000.00 Vehicle or 3 so Instead of Buying such vehicles I buy a more Modest vehicle which I can afford otherwise I would need to put up my Prices & then Consider myself Greedy!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by fte50

Greed is NOT the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation. This is smart business sense.
Greed is in fact the opposite. Its risking what you have (proven product) and replacing it with a clearly proven inferior product just hoping it would work,(to make a quick buck) when all the r&d proves its a lesser product. Its about cutting ties with 'proven quality' component /engineering suppliers and being prepared to accept an inferior product because it costs half the price.
The problem is the cost saving is not passed onto the consumer, hence generating a higher turnover in sales/profit- its a negative mindset thinking the global consumer will accept at any cost for the sake of a badge. That is greed. That is also mismanagement.
The same management teams that are responsible for the future /destiny of its employees, yet have no regard for their welfares. The same management teams that sign off on a dodgy product and, in situ of a product not 'taking off' lay off its workforce - replace when needed with casual labour. Only a number. Ofcourse the shopfloor workers lose their jobs, and the 'managers' get a relocation/transfer.
On a final note, if no one here is convinced of the greed, take a trip to one of the 'Major' car manufacturing plants in asia/egypt or an emerging manufacturing nation. These are the expert manufacturers.
Despite these countries having very low to no govt regulated safety/work standards etc, the companies themselves have the collective engineering/regulation expertise and knowledge aquired to create safe manufacturing plants and help the local govts develop safety/work standards/policy. They should be leaders in these fields. In contrast however, despite their knowledge, they allow shortcuts and unsafe work practices to exist - it costs them less. They promote it by instantly sacking any 'activist' employees willing to stand up for their rights. Plants in the west that cost big $ to upgrade to meet new safety standards get relocated knowing they are 'non compliant'. Greed.
Now i will join the others in their cave.

I still see all of that as just exercising entrepreneurial flair to explore ways of increasing profit, increasing profit is the aim of any business, i don't see that as necessarily greed though.. making a product cheaper to increase margin is smart business practice, why should that be passed onto the customer? If you get it wrong the consumer walks, if someone else does it there's competition which naturally lowers prices, its part of the "risk"..
Market forces naturally control "greed" via healthy competition.

In Australia we have the ACCC who determine the difference between healthy business activity and prohibitive uncompetitive behavior (monopoly, price fixing, third line forcing etc) which is what id classify as "greed"..

[Gobes32]

So what is the answer to what seems to be a MASSIVE problem? Is it higher tarriff's? Less overseas workers? Stricter laws on companies buying aussie made..........

I don't know the answer but I am only 25 years old, I thought it was normal to have a 30sq home and a plasma in every room. (insert sarcasm)

The truth is I live in a 13sq three bedroom home thats 50 years old in a lower priced suburb that I am slowly paying off. I don't have a credit card and I watch a tube tv. My car is a 96 Fairmont with a qtr million k's. It's cheap and it runs. I work for a major Geelong manufacturing plant that's at threat of closing down. So how did I contribute to this crisis? More importantly, how do I fix it? I always try and buy Australian made groceries so I can support the people that hopefully buy the products I make.

Is my generation the greedy one? Or is it the one before me who shipped all our manufacturing overseas in the name of higher profits. Really think about your answer because I am sick of coming on here and being told my generation is spoilt........

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Greed is when for Example the Banks make Record Profits year after year & fail to drop Interest rates when the Official cash rate Falls.

Oil Companies who fail to Drop the Wholesale price of Fuel after the Barrel price has Fallen by 50% even if the Dollar has Fallen by 30% Coz that leves a 20% Gap!

Greed are large Companies who must make extra Profits each year even if they make huge amounts already!

See enough of a Profit in well Enough & you do not need to make more & more every year when you already make Billions a year!

It is not all about Greedy Shareholders who demand more & more in Returns.

It is about the Customers of a Business as well who are sick of Paying More in Interest rates or Food Prices etc....

Many people are Greedy & they are Pathetic!

I am happy to make enough to pay my Bills & Understand I do not make enough to have Huge Bills such as a $60000.00 Vehicle or 3 so Instead of Buying such vehicles I buy a more Modest vehicle which I can afford otherwise I would need to put up my Prices & then Consider myself Greedy!

I bet shareholders of those companies would disagree, they are the ones who benefit form the profit through dividends...
Id want the directors of any company i had shares in to work their butts off to make as much money as possible (as long as its not anti competitive illegal activity) to give me a return on my investment, otherwise what's the point of investing in the first place.

[Lynch'd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I bet shareholders of those companies would disagree, they are the ones who benefit form the profit through dividends...
Id want the directors of any company i had shares in to work their butts off to make as much money as possible (as long as its not anti competitive illegal activity) to give me a return on my investment, otherwise what's the point of investing in the first place.

And thats the floor in western thinking that has got us to where we are today. Shareholders chasing short term income to spend now, directors pressured by shareholders (and there own remuneration packages) to make decisions that drive profits in the short term at the expense of long term sustainability.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I bet shareholders of those companies would disagree, they are the ones who benefit form the profit through dividends...
Id want the directors of any company i had shares in to work their butts off to make as much money as possible (as long as its not anti competitive illegal activity) to give me a return on my investment, otherwise what's the point of investing in the first place.

4Vman, you always seem to have well thought out posts and seem to be knowledgeable about the finance sector. So my question to you is this,

What happens when we become a country who buys everything from overseas and don't make anything here? If I lose my job then I don't have any money to buy whatever services you provide or purchase anything you manufacture. This then starts a domino effect. If I dont have money then soon you don't, then he doesn't and she doesn't etc. By no means is this an attack, just interested as to what someone who is older than me thinks about all this.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

4Vman, you always seem to have well thought out posts and seem to be knowledgeable about the finance sector. So my question to you is this,

What happens when we become a country who buys everything from overseas and don't make anything here? If I lose my job then I don't have any money to buy whatever services you provide or purchase anything you manufacture. This then starts a domino effect. If I dont have money then soon you don't, then he doesn't and she doesn't etc. By no means is this an attack, just interested as to what someone who is older than me thinks about all this.

Good questions.. i've long been worried and critical of the fact that our manufacturing industry is vanishing (or has vanished) before our eyes largely due to the $AUD's rapid rise against the $USD over the past 3 years.
But... now we're stuck in a tough position, the $AUD has dropped 30% in the space of a month... what used to be cheap to import just took a massive hike in price.. so prices will be on the rise again as a result... to make matters worse we have dismantled a large part of our industries here that would now be competitive again..
I don't have the answers, but its frustrating to watch.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

So what is the answer to what seems to be a MASSIVE problem? Is it higher tarriff's? Less overseas workers? Stricter laws on companies buying aussie made..........

I don't know the answer but I am only 25 years old, I thought it was normal to have a 30sq home and a plasma in every room. (insert sarcasm)

The truth is I live in a 13sq three bedroom home thats 50 years old in a lower priced suburb that I am slowly paying off. I don't have a credit card and I watch a tube tv. My car is a 96 Fairmont with a qtr million k's. It's cheap and it runs. I work for a major Geelong manufacturing plant that's at threat of closing down. So how did I contribute to this crisis? More importantly, how do I fix it? I always try and buy Australian made groceries so I can support the people that hopefully buy the products I make.

Is my generation the greedy one? Or is it the one before me who shipped all our manufacturing overseas in the name of higher profits. Really think about your answer because I am sick of coming on here and being told my generation is spoilt........

I think putting a freeze on tarrifs would be a start (as I have said before) it might be enough to keep some industry and keep people employeed.

You didnt contribute to the crisis and hopefully it will have minimal impact on you (from what you have said above you would be in a far better position that a lot of others) I hope your job remains safe

As for the generation thing thats a whole new topic... wont go there, but I dont think we should judge people based on which generation they have been put in

[mik]

yep plenty of room i`ll fire up the barby .

[Lynch'd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Good questions.. i've long been worried and critical of the fact that our manufacturing industry is vanishing (or has vanished) before our eyes largely due to the $AUD's rapid rise against the $USD over the past 3 years.
But... now we're stuck in a tough position, the $AUD has dropped 30% in the space of a month... what used to be cheap to import just took a massive hike in price.. so prices will be on the rise again as a result... to make matters worse we have dismantled a large part of our industries here that would now be competitive again..
I don't have the answers, but its frustrating to watch.

Be careful about over generalising there. While the dollar has plummeted, so has demand for asian goods and so have the commodity prices. From someone who imports a great deal of products out of asia, we have already seen an average of 15-20% price drop across the board on these goods. This has nearly completely offset the drop in the AUD against the US and has also opened us back up to exports that were smashed when the dollar previously went north. The current situation is a godsend for many in the manufacturing industry here who toughed it out.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Lynch'd

Be careful about over generalising there. While the dollar has plummeted, so has demand for asian goods and so have the commodity prices. From someone who imports a great deal of products out of asia, we have already seen an average of 15-20% price drop across the board on these goods. This has nearly completely offset the drop in the AUD against the US and has also opened us back up to exports that were smashed when the dollar previously went north. The current situation is a godsend for many in the manufacturing industry here who toughed it out.

There appears to a lots of stock overseas and companies are getting desperate to offload it prices seem to be dropping. Add to that a slowing local economy and less demand still means its difficult for local manufacturers

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SB076

There appears to a lots of stock overseas and companies are getting desperate to offload it prices seem to be dropping. Add to that a slowing local economy and less demand still means its difficult for local manufacturers

That will be very product or industry specific.. i just landed a container of components from china that's cost me $40K more than i was quoted when i ordered them....
I'm getting calls on a weekly basis from Steel and Plastic suppliers who keep putting their prices up due to the sudden poor conversion rate.

[Lynch'd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That will be very product or industry specific.. i just landed a container of components from china that's cost me $40K more than i was quoted when i ordered them....
I'm getting calls on a weekly basis from Steel and Plastic suppliers who keep putting their prices up due to the sudden poor conversion rate.

Yeah thats a decent hit 4Vman. We did see it on containers that were already on order when this happened but all new orders the prices have dropped significantly. Where are you getting price increases from Steel suppliers? Certainly not from China I hope. There has been a 15% decrease in the price of steel over there. Better yet, look at the middle east, almost 40% price drop in steel in some economies over there (although from a higher initial cost base).

[SB076]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That will be very product or industry specific.. i just landed a container of components from china that's cost me $40K more than i was quoted when i ordered them....
I'm getting calls on a weekly basis from Steel and Plastic suppliers who keep putting their prices up due to the sudden poor conversion rate.

Yep - how does the local guys prices compare to o/s?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Lynch'd

Yeah thats a decent hit 4Vman. We did see it on containers that were already on order when this happened but all new orders the prices have dropped significantly. Where are you getting price increases from Steel suppliers? Certainly not from China I hope. There has been a 15% decrease in the price of steel over there. Better yet, look at the middle east, almost 40% price drop in steel in some economies over there (although from a higher initial cost base).

"Value added" steel components out of china.. Locally we're still getting rises on RHS, sheet and bar.
The price of steel might be dropping but the conversion rate reverses that effect and some.
Its a very unsettled time for manufacturing, allot are hedging on a 50/50 split of local V imported stuff to minimize the risks..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SB076

Yep - how does the local guys prices compare to o/s?

If the $AUD gets under $0.60US it will start to be competitive to manufacture here again for allot of stuff that's been imported over the past 3 years just to stay in the game.
China has gradually got more expensive over the past 3 years for a number of reasons, they don't have to be so cheap to still get orders, and their expectations and standards of living are on the rise.

[dreadly]

Wouldnt holden have to fold?? Due to GM being the parent company if it closes holden will too? - because holden isnt an Australian listed company on the ASX

[SB076]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If the $AUD gets under $0.60US it will start to be competitive to manufacture here again for allot of stuff that's been imported over the past 3 years just to stay in the game.
China has gradually got more expensive over the past 3 years for a number of reasons, they don't have to be so cheap to still get orders, and their expectations and standards of living are on the rise.

Good to know - thanks. China has reduced its export rebate (I beleive it currently sitting around 10% or so - again depending on product involved)

"value added" steel.... steel on its own doesnt qualify for export rebates - however "value added" steel does, Some of the descriptions of "value added" steel can be amusing (if it wasnt so damaging to local industry)

[john3136]

If GM (US) goes chapter 11, doesn't that protect them from being shutdown ?
If I understand correctly, it means "We're in trouble but here is our plan to get out of it."
i.e. restructure etc.

If it was Ford Aus, they could just sack the marketing department and hire a room full of monkeys.

[Dave_au]

Everyone should have a read of what Chapter 11 entails before making rash conclusions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Everyone should have a read of what Chapter 11 entails before making rash conclusions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11

Well it certiantly saved Lehman Bros

Think we just have to wait and see - as I said in an earlier post I beleive there are other options that GM are pursing but time will tell

[irlewy86]

Chapter 11, saving what can be saved and dumping the rest..... remember Ansett?

[Hally]

Ansett went broke because of Air New Zealand gross incompentance, plain and simple.

[Green X]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

And to just touch on one point, I work in the Offshore Oil and Gas Industry, and when Varanus Is (Apache Energy) W.Australia had her gas explosion a few months ago the mining and industrial industry up there (plus the private sector all the way to Perth) and WA Govt where sh!$ing themselves on how to keep the lights burning, yet the Gas Buggies (ship carrying gas for export) never stopped taking it out of the country.

We are to tied up with overseas intrests (US, Japan etc) and when they fall we go with them, we sell everything, including Queensland, yet produce nothing, we have more natural resorces and minerals than most countrys on the planet, yet all we do is box up the raw materials and send it overseas and buy it back as consumer products.

Revolution is the only way........

Bloody oath mate, And i bet that ship had gas from Woodside in it too!! A Australian company's 1st priority selling Aus gas overseas 2nd priority if we got any left we will sell it to Australians at a inflated cost!!

I'm on a Rio Tinto site, they rip up A grade Ore ship it to China (Same with BHP, FMG Ect) and then we buy it back as steel (and chit steel too i might add) should hear the boilermakers about the chit, we should be digging it up sending it to Australian steel mill's and then selling it to the world. But hay then the profit sheet wouldn't be so big would it!

[Wally]

Originally Posted by fte50

Greed is NOT the ambition to ensure you make money and maintain the viability of your operation. This is smart business sense.
Greed is in fact the opposite. Its risking what you have (proven product) and replacing it with a clearly proven inferior product just hoping it would work,(to make a quick buck) when all the r&d proves its a lesser product. Its about cutting ties with 'proven quality' component /engineering suppliers and being prepared to accept an inferior product because it costs half the price.
The problem is the cost saving is not passed onto the consumer, hence generating a higher turnover in sales/profit- its a negative mindset thinking the global consumer will accept at any cost for the sake of a badge. That is greed. That is also mismanagement.
The same management teams that are responsible for the future /destiny of its employees, yet have no regard for their welfares. The same management teams that sign off on a dodgy product and, in situ of a product not 'taking off' lay off its workforce - replace when needed with casual labour. Only a number. Ofcourse the shopfloor workers lose their jobs, and the 'managers' get a relocation/transfer.
On a final note, if no one here is convinced of the greed, take a trip to one of the 'Major' car manufacturing plants in asia/egypt or an emerging manufacturing nation. These are the expert manufacturers.
Despite these countries having very low to no govt regulated safety/work standards etc, the companies themselves have the collective engineering/regulation expertise and knowledge aquired to create safe manufacturing plants and help the local govts develop safety/work standards/policy. They should be leaders in these fields. In contrast however, despite their knowledge, they allow shortcuts and unsafe work practices to exist - it costs them less. They promote it by instantly sacking any 'activist' employees willing to stand up for their rights. Plants in the west that cost big $ to upgrade to meet new safety standards get relocated knowing they are 'non compliant'. Greed.
Now i will join the others in their cave.

I think you probably more leaning to the idea that Corporations should have a social resposibility as well as maintaining a healthy balance sheet. Not so much largesse, but helping the community in general by not profiteering from that same community?

Greed is more attributable to the individual and we have seen that manifestly in the net incomes of small band or club of directors and CEOs who wander gypsie like through corporations. They look after their own by appointing board members from their own group, generally do little and behave with impunity from prosecution. The same law makers who should be putting the microscope on those individuals generally find themselves, post politics, warming a seat around some board table suckling at the teat of Leilar rather than Astraia.

Banks in Oz, long before APRA, have enjoyed Govt protection and cheap cash flow borrowings (cash rate) from the Govt. A generation ago the various rural and industry banks were state owned and between them and the federally owned Commonwealth Bank kept the private banks in check. These days the four pillars banks are more or less an oligopoly with a pretty ineffectual policeman overseeing things. Some of those banks side stepped getting money on the shirt tails of the Govt's credit and borrowed from cheaper more volatile lenders such as hedge funds, but still kept their interest rates above the official cash rate = profiteering.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Good questions.. i've long been worried and critical of the fact that our manufacturing industry is vanishing (or has vanished) before our eyes largely due to the $AUD's rapid rise against the $USD over the past 3 years.
But... now we're stuck in a tough position, the $AUD has dropped 30% in the space of a month... what used to be cheap to import just took a massive hike in price.. so prices will be on the rise again as a result... to make matters worse we have dismantled a large part of our industries here that would now be competitive again..
I don't have the answers, but its frustrating to watch.

I thought we had already learnt our lesson during the Great Depression that the Government must protect local industry during economic fluctuations.

I thought that the prudent thing to do while the dollar was high was to help local business until the dollar dropped again. We have seen how wildly the currency can fluctuate year to year while business plans are set out in decades.

Case in point the axing of the Aussie Falcom inline. I wonder if the business case is still strong now that the Aussie dollar has declined??

I believe we should set a tariif according to three things:

1) The nation we are trading withs wage costs
2) The nation we are trading withs environmental/OHS costs etc.
3) The value of their currencies

Western Economic Policy doesn't make any sense to me. The advantage of the Asians (especially the Chinese) is that they look beyond the next financial quarter. They will dominate us if if takes a 1000years. (Unless the Muslims get their way and kill us all first)

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If the $AUD gets under $0.60US it will start to be competitive to manufacture here again for allot of stuff that's been imported over the past 3 years just to stay in the game.
China has gradually got more expensive over the past 3 years for a number of reasons, they don't have to be so cheap to still get orders, and their expectations and standards of living are on the rise.

Thats why people are looking at India, they were the only country in the world that lowered the cost of producing steel. Mind you the Indians do become dodgy with price when western companies ring to get something produced.

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thought we had already learnt our lesson during the Great Depression that the Government must protect local industry during economic fluctuations.

Actually high tarrif was one of the main reasons of the great depression. The US had huge tarrif's on their goods. The world was going well and they were exporting all over the world and the states was lending money as well. Problem was these countries couldn't export their goods and were getting into trouble. All of a sudden no one buys anything from the US the money dries up and the USA starts to call in their loans and it snowballs from there.

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by Hally

Ansett went broke because of Air New Zealand gross incompentance, plain and simple.

Actually no. Ansett was made unviable by Ansett himself. ANZ bought it for the parts stash, stripped it and left it to die. No incompetence there. Their only incompetence was not keeping their own operation viable, but then they knew the gov would bail them out.

This is an interesting thread. It started about GM going belly up and has become a discussion on our whole economy and way of life. Let me wade in...

First we have to engage the population, get them interested enough to think about this for a while. Next we have to make some decisions about our priorities. From there assuming the populations remain engaged enough to back the measures that are required we can achieve the desired outcome.

When I was young Australia had one of the most egalitarian societies in the world. The middle class was large, very little poverty and likewise relatively few VERY wealthy. I liked that society.

In the late 70's there arose the idea that high tarriffs and socialised infrastructure were unsustainable and inefficient. That word, inefficient, is important.

During the 80's under Hawke/Keeting we privatised, deregulated and opened our markets at a cracking pace. Between 1984 and 1994 our poor and rich doubled while the middle class shrank. Unions got bigger and less in touch with membership and everyone more and more is out for themselves rather than the community. Some do very well, some don't.

I saw this happening in the early 90's and realised I wouldn't be able to just be middle class. I had to decide between being wealthy or poor. I'm pretty comfortable and none of this economic stuff will bother me much, in fact I'll probably do quite well out of it, but I am far from unconcerned about the impact on our society.

The real issue here is that the electorate allows itself to be conned. They jump onto slogans, promises, bribes and now are paying the price. The baby boomers paid into the pension fund, paid their income taxes and now feel entitled to a pension. Trouble is they alos hired governments that spent it all, had not enough kids to support them and p*s'd away their inheritence. Gen Y have borrowed up to thier eyeballs and are now complaining interest rates have risen to historical averages again.

So you see you have to make some decisions, set some priorities and work consistently towards them. You can't have cake and eat it. If you deter competition then value and efficiency and innovation are also stifled. Conversely if you open the markets to an uneven global playing field your local industry can't compete.

Finally I have to say I'm shocked by the anomosity I am hearing towards ford. I like my NL but have been recently looking for another car. Everywhere I go I hear people complaining viciously about fords parts prices, ease of repairs, quality, after sales service etc. I've bene quite shocked by it, but as stated elsewhere I was singularly unimpressed by the BF2's I looked at. I rather suspect the big companies management has been unspectacular in doing thier jobs, and now everyone is going to suffer for it. Kinda like the investment banks

http://xkcd.com/386/

[XYGTHO]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

So what is the answer to what seems to be a MASSIVE problem? Is it higher tarriff's? Less overseas workers? Stricter laws on companies buying aussie made..........

I don't know the answer but I am only 25 years old, I thought it was normal to have a 30sq home and a plasma in every room. (insert sarcasm)

The truth is I live in a 13sq three bedroom home thats 50 years old in a lower priced suburb that I am slowly paying off. I don't have a credit card and I watch a tube tv. My car is a 96 Fairmont with a qtr million k's. It's cheap and it runs. I work for a major Geelong manufacturing plant that's at threat of closing down. So how did I contribute to this crisis? More importantly, how do I fix it? I always try and buy Australian made groceries so I can support the people that hopefully buy the products I make.

Is my generation the greedy one? Or is it the one before me who shipped all our manufacturing overseas in the name of higher profits. Really think about your answer because I am sick of coming on here and being told my generation is spoilt........

I'm in the same league mate, 23going 24 with a very small cheap two bedroom house and a 1g xf runabout with no other loans etc. Good luck to you, i know your concern. I too am worried about my job and what is coming in the future. I worked 2jobs, 7days a week for 5 years to just get what i have and now at risk of loosing it all. I think its gone passed being able to do anything, we all just have to hang on and hope for the best.