What defines MUSCLE in muscle car ???

[wrongwaynorris]

Here is what I regard as TRUE muscle cars

Ford

Galaxie 427
Mustang Boss 429
Thunderbolt
Torino Cobra
Mercury Monterey
Mercury S 55
Mercury Comet
Mercury cyclone
Mercury montego
Mercury Cougar XR 7
Phase III GTHO

G.M.

Buick Wildcat
Oldsmobile 4-4-2
Oldsmobile Cutlass W 31
Chevelle SS
Chevrolet Biscayne
Chevrolet Impala SS
Pontiac GTO
Monaro HG 350

Chrysler

Dodge Polara ( The car that started it all )
Dodge Super Bee
Dodge Charger 440 6 Pack
Dodge Dart
Dodge Coronet
Plymouth Duster
Plymouth Satellite
Plymouth Belvedere
Plymouth Barracuda
Charger RT E 49


South Africa also got into muscle cars too with the
Firenza Can Am ( Vauxhall Firenza with a 302 Chev )
Ford Perana ( Capri with a 302 )

Which brings us to the undisputed granddaddys of the muscle car genre

The Plymouth Roadrunner and Dodge Charger Daytona

Doubtless there are a few I have forgotten but the above list is what truly embodies a TRUE muscle car .

[XBROO]

To me a muscle car is something that looks tuff ( end of story). And if you have to look it up in a dictionary to see what it means, then you have missed the concept. Because I'm sure all the scholars that put the book together would be into cars.

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Corvettes are NOT muscle cars , especially the early ones before the Lotus powered ones . They were nothing but ugly overweight sludgeboxes , hell 99% of them were autos , they werent even sports cars as that is just a bridge too far , they were bought by the BCSD crowd .( Until the Lotus powered and suspended ones ) . Put them up against a Bolwell Nagari and they would not see the Bolwell for dust as it dissapered into the distance.

If you mean the plastic bumper C3s, then yes.

If you mean late C2s and early (chrome bumper) C3s then you are so wrong that it hurts. A stock 71 LS5 (the base 454 which idles at 600, and is easy to drive) ran the quarter in 14.1 seconds, 0-100 kph in mid 5s, IRS, same weight as a similarly optioned XY, lower coefficient of drag-area and has big 4 pistons all round. Top speed at least 140 mph. This was the overweight base model!

The Nagari couldn't keep up with Phase 3, let alone a big block Corvette.

That said, after 71 they got a bit stodgy.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

If you mean the plastic bumper C3s, then yes.

If you mean late C2s and early (chrome bumper) C3s then you are so wrong that it hurts. A stock 71 LS5 (the base 454 which idles at 600, and is easy to drive) ran the quarter in 14.1 seconds, 0-100 kph in mid 5s, IRS, same weight as a similarly optioned XY, lower coefficient of drag-area and has big 4 pistons all round. Top speed at least 140 mph. This was the overweight base model!

The Nagari couldn't keep up with Phase 3, let alone a big block Corvette.

That said, after 71 they got a bit stodgy.

SPORTS CARS is what we were talking about because that is what Corvettes pretended to be , and were marketed as by G.M. , and SPORTS CARS go round corners . Why oh why do 99% of the people in this forum live their entire lives in quarter mile increments ? I owned a 1558 CC ( 97 cubic inches) car that would have totally and utterly decimated and humiliated the 454 Corvette without even working up a sweat and a well sorted Nagari would be a couple of seconds quicker than that again .

[Bad Bird]

Because drag racing is accessible AND directly comparable, perhaps?

[Bad Bird]

And additionally, it depends on the track. The early C3s were extremely competitive at Le Mans.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Because drag racing is accessible AND directly comparable, perhaps?

Where I live we have corners and like I said G.M. NEVER marketed the Corvette as a drag car it was marketed as a sports car .

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

And additionally, it depends on the track. The early C3s were extremely competitive at Le Mans.

I can only assume you are talking about the Greenwood Corvettes which were never a threat at Le Mans .

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Where I live we have corners and like I said G.M. NEVER marketed the Corvette as a drag car it was marketed as a sports car .

It's not like they can't go around a corner... It's not hard to get a C3 to be able to exceed 1 lateral G. No one is saying that this is excellent, but they aren't terrible.

And to me, an all-round sports car should be fast in a straight line as well. Early C3s are as fast as any muscle car, but handle better and brake a LOT better.

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

I can only assume you are talking about the Greenwood Corvettes which were never a threat at Le Mans .

No, the Scuderia Filipinetti Corvette. Sure it wasn't a reliable thing, but it was good while it ran.

http://corvette-racing.tripod.com/id14.html

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

No, the Scuderia Filipinetti Corvette. Sure it wasn't a reliable thing, but it was good while it ran.

http://corvette-racing.tripod.com/id14.html

Theres a very old and overused adage in motor racing , but none the less it is absolutely true . To finish first you have to first finish .

Any imbecile can build a fragile fast short term car , there's NO skill in that whatsoever . Still when you start with a sows ear you are NEVER going to end up with silk purse so Scuderia Filipinetti ( as was John Greenwood ) were up against it from the outset .

[Bad Bird]

I just have to ask: do you hate the GTHO too? Because the criticisms you have of the late C2s and early C3s apply to that car too. The Corvette would walk a HO in any category. Indeed most muscle cars in any category.

Or is it because GM used the word sports car? Is this a semantic game?

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

I just have to ask: do you hate the GTHO too? Because the criticisms you have of the late C2s and early C3s apply to that car too. The Corvette would walk a HO in any category. Indeed most muscle cars in any category.

Or is it because GM used the word sports car? Is this a semantic game?

NO it is NOT semantics game . G.M. CHOSE , Freely and Actively CHOSE , ( NOone forced them ) to design and market the Corvette as a Sports Car . Ford NEVER made any such claims for the GTHO

[Bad Bird]

Thought so.

The title 'Grand Tourer' ring any bells? The HO is not much of one. But I don't judge the car on its stupid moniker, rather on it's peers and abilities.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Thought so.

The title 'Grand Tourer' ring any bells? The HO is not much of one. But I don't judge the car on its stupid moniker, rather on it's peers and abilities.

You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what GT " Gran Tourismo actually" stands for do you . It is defined as a car that can carry 4 adults in comfort along with their luggage for prolonged open road journeys .

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what GT " Gran Tourismo actually" stands for do you .

Neither do you judging by that waffle you just wrote

You can't even spell it correctly

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Neither do you judging by that waffle you just wrote

You can't even spell it correctly

One typo , still sufferring from last nights 6 pints of Newcastle Brown are we ?

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what GT " Gran Tourismo actually" stands for do you . It is defined as a car that can carry 4 adults in comfort along with their luggage for prolonged open road journeys .

Again, I thought so. A GTHO comfortable at prolonged open road speeds? You've got to be joking.

[noosacuda]

Over powered, under tyred, handling deficiant dinosaurs of a by-gone era the likes of which we will never see produced again.
That's why i love my 2100kg, 18.5 foot long, (soon to be) 493 cubic inch (8 litre), 1350 cfm six pack carburetor fed, gas guzzling, rice eating Chrysler 300 dinosaur!

[Donny]

A mate of mine wrote this on another forum where the discussion of Aussie Muscle Cars came up..

I Don't believe that Every Car Manufactured between 1960-1990 to be a "Australian Musclecar"

Musclecars are..

GT/GTHO Falcons
GTS V8 Monaro's, GTR/XU 1/SLR 5000 Toranas
Pacers/RT Chargers

Thats IT Nothing Else.. All Others are Classic Cars from the "Musclecar Era", Including Goss specials, GS's, K codes what ever, just Classics from the Great Era.

That covers what I think pretty much too, again discussing Aussie Muscle and classics.. Nothing new no matter how fast or powerful is a muscle car either, just a performance car.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Over powered, under tyred, handling deficiant dinosaurs of a by-gone era the likes of which we will never see produced again.
That's why i love my 2100kg, 18.5 foot long, (soon to be) 493 cubic inch (8 litre), 1350 cfm six pack carburetor fed, gas guzzling, rice eating Chrysler 300 dinosaur!

Right on brother!
Throw up a pic so we see what a real muscle car looks like.

In the meantime here's one of my 70 GTO ...

[max_torq]

stripes and scoops define a muscle car..

maybe cartoon characters, too.

[OLDFORDNUT]

I always thought a muscle car was something that had a more powerful engine (as in power to weight ratio)than was sensible,and it also had to look a bit tougher than the base model,
So when it drove past people turned there heads to check it out as it had that something tough look at me hear me feel me.
as for a silly comment earlier that GT HO's were not a grand tourer,you need a brain check,go to Sydney and back to Melbourne or similar journey at a fast pace and you will change your mind

[z80]

A good muscle car also needs this feature....

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Here is what I regard as TRUE muscle cars

Ford

Galaxie 427
Mustang Boss 429
Thunderbolt
Torino Cobra
Mercury Monterey
Mercury S 55
Mercury Comet
Mercury cyclone
Mercury montego
Mercury Cougar XR 7
Phase III GTHO

G.M.

Buick Wildcat
Oldsmobile 4-4-2
Oldsmobile Cutlass W 31
Chevelle SS
Chevrolet Biscayne
Chevrolet Impala SS
Pontiac GTO
Monaro HG 350

Chrysler

Dodge Polara ( The car that started it all )
Dodge Super Bee
Dodge Charger 440 6 Pack
Dodge Dart
Dodge Coronet
Plymouth Duster
Plymouth Satellite
Plymouth Belvedere
Plymouth Barracuda
Charger RT E 49


South Africa also got into muscle cars too with the
Firenza Can Am ( Vauxhall Firenza with a 302 Chev )
Ford Perana ( Capri with a 302 )

Which brings us to the undisputed granddaddys of the muscle car genre

The Plymouth Roadrunner and Dodge Charger Daytona

Doubtless there are a few I have forgotten but the above list is what truly embodies a TRUE muscle car .

Only 2 there I'd argue whether muscle cars... Chev Biscayne and the Belvedere.. both under powdered tanks IMO?

[OzJavelin]

Biscayne (in specific years) was available with dual quad 409 .. And the 427 W-block in racing applications (yes they were raced in NASCAR as "stock" cars)

Belvedere is a B-body Mopar (ie intermediate) so not sure why it's a tank .. It was the basis for the GTX and later the RoadRunner, etc. But it was available with dual quad 426 HEMI .. So your version of underpowered would be interesting?

[Revolver]

Not to sound like a bore, but this thread and variations of this thread keep popping up a few times a year. Might be a good idea to do a search......

Any way basically a muscle car traditionally goes fast in a straight line, not the best round corners, is loud & proud with its styling, & requires you to take out a mortgage to buy fuel to go down the shops.....

[XBROO]

After four of the same post you are sounding like a bore.

[russellw]

Sorry about the duplicate posts - it's my fault as I'm introducing a change.

Cheers
Russ

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Any way basically a muscle car traditionally goes fast in a straight line, not the best round corners

Dodge Daytona and Torino Talladega?


Well, left turns at least...