New 5lt in FG XR8's?

[FreddyDUZ747]

I think the people that are implementing the control techniques have done an awesome job tbh.

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by jpd80
BTW, Car of the future in V8 SC will be allowing twin cam 5.0 for Fords......
a perfect opportunity for the new FPV 5.0 and a 5.0 XR8 to cash in...

Not sure where you blokes get your info from but there won't be a Ford twin cam engine in COTF

Originally Posted by SteveJH

And hopefully a cheaper and more reliable engine at those powerlevels since its already built to rev.

Reliability hasn't been an issue with V8SC engines for a long time.COTF may even be running less RPM if the car ends up around the 1300kg mark as predicted.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Seek parity yes but because one Ute has a longer wheelbase and cart springs,
it's going to act differently to a ute with shorter wheelbase and IRS rear.

I thought the Falcon utes ran a 4-link read end?

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Reliability hasn't been an issue with V8SC engines for a long time.COTF may even be running less RPM if the car ends up around the 1300kg mark as predicted.

The engines are in need of a full rebuild once every 2nd or 3rd race weekend, a more modern and durable engine that is actually *designed* to operate in that rev range would possibly allow more time between rebuilds which should considerably reduce costs.

With the Coyote you are also starting with an engine making 400HP to make you 650 rather then an engine that in stock trim makes ~300HP.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Not sure where you blokes get your info from but there won't be a Ford twin cam engine in COTF

It's in the latest Wheels magazine, they did a big spread on COTF so it must be true...

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The engines are in need of a full rebuild once every 2nd or 3rd race weekend, a more modern and durable engine that is actually *designed* to operate in that rev range would possibly allow more time between rebuilds which should considerably reduce costs.

With the Coyote you are also starting with an engine making 400HP to make you 650 rather then an engine that in stock trim makes ~300HP.

They don't use crate engines as such so where do you get the 300HP figure from?They start with a Ford M 6010 Boss 302 block and use D3 heads.
Doesn't matter what engines are used a race team will always strip them down after a certain period.You do know the engines are sealed.Any team can use the same engine components in the Specified Component list. Take a top team eg:888 have to have the engine spec on ther Engine Component Specification list and Usage Log so as all players know what they are using and can buy the said parts from 888 if they want.Specified Components are available to everyone.The top teams are always going to strip them down as soon as the specified time is reached,teams less financial will always push the limits of durability no matter what the rules.No top team is going to give there fellow competitor an advantage.Plenty of the stuff that comes out of those engines is reused after being crack tested ect or sold off.How long does an engine have to last to be cost effective as well as reliable and produce the required amount of torque and horsepower to make it competitive? More than 1000 km around a big hill at full tilt all day tells me they are reliable.

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's in the latest Wheels magazine, they did a big spread on COTF so it must be true...

LOL. Come on John I know your not that gullible.Good to see you throw it out there though!

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The engines are in need of a full rebuild once every 2nd or 3rd race weekend, a more modern and durable engine that is actually *designed* to operate in that rev range would possibly allow more time between rebuilds which should considerably reduce costs.

With the Coyote you are also starting with an engine making 400HP to make you 650 rather then an engine that in stock trim makes ~300HP.

LOL,Coyote is a passenger car engine, V8SC's use 100% dedicated motorsport engines derived from NASCAR... i know which one will be the most durable at 7500rpm...

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

LOL,Coyote is a passenger car engine, V8SC's use 100% dedicated motorsport engines derived from NASCAR... i know which one will be the most durable at 7500rpm...

Is Cammer a Road Car engine? (yeah I know its not a Coyote)

Arent the NASCAR engines a 5.8L engine? The V8SC engine is a 5L.....

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Is Cammer a Road Car engine? (yeah I know its not a Coyote)

Arent the NASCAR engines a 5.8L engine? The V8SC engine is a 5L.....

Look, go do some research ok,

A V8SC engine is based on NASCAR technology and parts but using 5l capacity and Fuel Inj.

Old school design but they dont get much more reliable and tough than them, and they make enourmous power, certainly enough for parity and the formula.

Dollar and durability wise probably as cheap as it gets.

We seem to get stuck on a roundabout on this topic.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

LOL,Coyote is a passenger car engine, V8SC's use 100% dedicated motorsport engines derived from NASCAR... i know which one will be the most durable at 7500rpm...

The new NASCAR engine is the FR9 which is completely different to the small block Ford/Chev now running in V8S/C.
Coyote powered mustang is now being used in Europe in Group 3 racing, the light valve gear and springing
of the Coyote make it a generation on from the pushrods and if Mercedes Benz comes on board everything will change...

I'm not sure what is planned but the current engines have been with us for many years now
and COTF is a great opportunity for use of more economical OEM/SVO parts if they are up to the job...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jjw

On the nulon ad craig says they have 310kw (it was on tv, it must be true...)

I can see how they would set parity on a power to weight basis, but i wonder how they are going to sort the torque characteristics between a 5.0 4v engine versus a 6.0 2v engine (the latter should monster the former in the midrange, all other things being equal)

Actually, that is not the case.

The 5.0 Coyote motor is one of the most efficient motors on the market. Ford claim 100% volumetric efficiency at peak power, and 110% v.e. at peak torque.

For a fact it makes more torque per litre than any other naturally aspirated production motor (not including Ferrari's 4.5 litre masterpiece in the F458). This is also achieved without direct injection, which will be introduced in 2013/14.

What all this means is it packs a real mean punch. It's a heavy hitter without the cubes.

For instance in the states the Mustang 5.0 pulls a smidgeon (about 5rwhp) less power on the same chassis dynos than the LS3 powered Camaro SS. That is practically the same LS3 as what HSV use here (325kW!!).
When it comes to aftermarket tuning it responds better as well.

Forgetting all the above for a second... the specification, on paper at least, of the L98 6.0 vs 5.0 also suggests the latter does in fact make the same peak torque as the 6.0 but at less rpm, and it also has 37kW more at the top end.

In a nutshell the parity rules would be for the 6 litre's benefit only.


Have a look at this clip if you get the chance, cheers.
Mustang Engine 2011

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Actually, that is not the case.
Have a look at this clip if you get the chance, cheers.
Mustang Engine 2011

^^^^^^ That's a really neat video on the new 5.0 and explanation of the technology,
they give a reallgood close up view of what the tech is and how it works.

If you're wondering how a 5.0 with VCT can out gun a 5.4 Boss, this the video to watch.

[b2tf]

Interesting how they've set the air intake up on that FG - flies in the face of what all the 'experts' say on here. Bet i know which one works better too.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Interesting how they've set the air intake up on that FG - flies in the face of what all the 'experts' say on here. Bet i know which one works better too.

Very similar to the Ford Racing intakes for the Mustangs in the states.

[darkside]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Holden don't have a S/C engine in any of their utes, nor do HSV.

my bad i was refering to the bathurst edition that appeared briefly think they went as vauxhalls ,gotta admit it would still be interesting could turn into a drift session ...doc

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by darkside

my bad i was refering to the bathurst edition that appeared briefly think they went as vauxhalls ,gotta admit it would still be interesting could turn into a drift session ...doc

I don't think the Maloo they had on Top Gear was supercharged, the R8/VXR Bathurst was though.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Actually, that is not the case.

The 5.0 Coyote motor is one of the most efficient motors on the market. Ford claim 100% volumetric efficiency at peak power, and 110% v.e. at peak torque.

For a fact it makes more torque per litre than any other naturally aspirated production motor (not including Ferrari's 4.5 litre masterpiece in the F458). This is also achieved without direct injection, which will be introduced in 2013/14.

What all this means is it packs a real mean punch. It's a heavy hitter without the cubes.

For instance in the states the Mustang 5.0 pulls a smidgeon (about 5rwhp) less power on the same chassis dynos than the LS3 powered Camaro SS. That is practically the same LS3 as what HSV use here (325kW!!).
When it comes to aftermarket tuning it responds better as well.

Forgetting all the above for a second... the specification, on paper at least, of the L98 6.0 vs 5.0 also suggests the latter does in fact make the same peak torque as the 6.0 but at less rpm, and it also has 37kW more at the top end.

In a nutshell the parity rules would be for the 6 litre's benefit only.


Have a look at this clip if you get the chance, cheers.
Mustang Engine 2011

brutes

actually they have the same BHP but the ford have 3.90:1 ratio to compensate less torque.
holden's run 3.55:1 ratio for parity..

top half of gearbox 5th, 6th are changed for terminal speed.

[SpoolMan]

Closed


Huge thread here same topic
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11303919