VFACTS May 2012

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

If Australian made was so important, both Falcon & Commodore would not be selling as poorly as they are right now!! Sadly, Australian made means little, even to the government.. Sad, but it is true.


The only benefit to local Ranger production (or any local vehicle production) would be unlimited supply.

What a load of rubbish, how well does Maxima or Accord sell against local Commodore and Falcon? How about unstoppable Mazda or Subaru with their 6 and Liberty against locally made Camry?

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holdens declines with Commodore pretty much mirror Falcons decline, yet according to most people, press included, the Commodore is doing ok. Huh?

Well it is doing ok, considering its been on the market 2 years longer, has barely had an update in that time, and a fresh new model is just around the corner. The falcon on the other hand, has just had a mk2 update and received ecolpi and ecoboost,(which were supposedly going to save the world if you listened to some around here) yet it has done absolutely nothing to arrest the slide. In fact it has sent sales backwards. The future is looking very grim for Aussie manufacturing, but I'd much rather be in Holden's shoes than Ford's at the moment.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Correct, Toyota has already implied that it intends to bring Hilux up to a 5 star rating but not until well into 2013.

Great Wall will be 5 star rated by the time Ford sorts out its Ranger supply issues.

[dimka100]

Focus (1667)
Ranger (1611)
Territory (1280)
Falcon (1008)

Has the EcoBoost been on sale the whole month?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by stevz

Well it is doing ok, considering its been on the market 2 years longer, has barely had an update in that time, and a fresh new model is just around the corner. The falcon on the other hand, has just had a mk2 update and received ecolpi and ecoboost,(which were supposedly going to save the world if you listened to some around here) yet it has done absolutely nothing to arrest the slide. In fact it has sent sales backwards. The future is looking very grim for Aussie manufacturing, but I'd much rather be in Holden's shoes than Ford's at the moment.

I do have to laugh when the same person says "Commodore has barely had an updates", yet go on to say "falcon as juts had MKII update".. If commodore has barely had any changes then Falcon's MKII is barely a change either, you can't have it both ways & drink your cup of tea as well!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

What a load of rubbish, how well does Maxima or Accord sell against local Commodore and Falcon? How about unstoppable Mazda or Subaru with their 6 and Liberty against locally made Camry?

We'll have to agree to disagree. Local Cruze has not done much for Cruze volumes if you ask me. I was expecting Cruze to be around 3-4000 cars each & every month by now. I'm disappointed more people dont see locally build products as being important. Cruze for me is proof of that.


local Cruze went on sold April 2011. Meaning the last 3 months of overseas Cruze was Qtr1 2011. Sales data here
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1377

Now compare, this to Qtr1 of this year (with hatch) here

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1377

That only equals to 759 more cars over 3 months. That is only 253 more Cruze's sold per month by being local. Hardly setting the world on fire, with a Hatch & all!!



Also, last point in relation to the above comment is what has been the sales slide of Commodore & Falcon 2012 vs (say) 2005 & that of Mazda 6 & Liberty from the same periods?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Focus (1667)
Ranger (1611)
Territory (1280)
Falcon (1008)

Has the EcoBoost been on sale the whole month?

Barely.

Also those Ranger numbers are interesting, given there are supposedly supply issues. Imagine if Ford had unconstrained supply with making them here, could they add another 1000 units per month onto that? I'm mainly looking at mining companies and government agencies like the Police.

[turbodewd]

Well Ive written to the ACT govt to query what vehicles they buy and if theres any reason they cant buy Australian exclusively where there is an Aus offering.

small - cruze
med/large - falcon, aurion, camry, commodore
SUV - territory

I await their reply.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by stevz

Well it is doing ok, considering its been on the market 2 years longer, has barely had an update in that time, and a fresh new model is just around the corner. The falcon on the other hand, has just had a mk2 update and received ecolpi and ecoboost,(which were supposedly going to save the world if you listened to some around here) yet it has done absolutely nothing to arrest the slide. In fact it has sent sales backwards. The future is looking very grim for Aussie manufacturing, but I'd much rather be in Holden's shoes than Ford's at the moment.

Didn't the Commodore get slightly more visual update of the front, new touch screen and wierd air vents internally and dedicated vapour LPG, plus in earlier updates got sidi iterations of their V6's. Not the typical update level of past years but that seems more substanial then FG apart from the fact FG is 2 years younger, has lost one model (XR8) and has gained one more engine option (ecoboost) and lost one engine option (V8).

[dimka100]

It’s not surprising to see the Commodore sales continue to slide rapidly … the car is now getting really old, it’s basically been out for 5 years with no noticeable updates, many Commodore owners are complaining that when the time came to update their earlier purchased VEs they are still getting the exact same car if they went to the dealers and purchased one new, so it kinda makes the whole update pointless …

Back when the VE was released I remember reading that Holden has shifted their strategy from continuous VT era updates to a more Japanse style strategy involving major model releases only once every 6 or so years … This means that existing owners don’t get hit with as much depreciation and that each major model release can include a large R&D budget since money has not been spent on minor (many times unnoticeable) updates. Now looking back at the VE and the VZ it seems that this is exactly what Holden is doing.

Watching the Falcon sales I get the feeling that Ford has wasted a ton of R&D money on mid life FG updates (EcoLPI, EcoBoost, FGII …) and would have probably been better-off with one major update that would include significant changes (just like what the VZ seems to be heading to)

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by dimka100

It’s not surprising to see the Commodore sales continue to slide rapidly … the car is now getting really old, it’s basically been out for 5 years with no noticeable updates, many Commodore owners are complaining that when the time came to update their earlier purchased VEs they are still getting the exact same car if they went to the dealers and purchased one new, so it kinda makes the whole update pointless …

Back when the VE was released I remember reading that Holden has shifted their strategy from continuous VT era updates to a more Japanse style strategy involving major model releases only once every 6 or so years … This means that existing owners don’t get hit with as much depreciation and that each major model release can include a large R&D budget since money has not been spent on minor (many times unnoticeable) updates. Now looking back at the VE and the VZ it seems that this is exactly what Holden is doing.

Watching the Falcon sales I get the feeling that Ford has wasted a ton of R&D money on mid life FG updates (EcoLPI, EcoBoost, FGII …) and would have probably been better-off with one major update that would include significant changes (just like what the VZ seems to be heading to)

The govt 'green fund' money had to be spent on something. So EcoLPI and Ecoboost probably got some of this funding. If/when the Geelong i6 engine plant closes IM sure that will make a big dent in city economy.

Ive seen EcoLPIs around town...sound like a great option to me. It might be my next car...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DJM83

I heard December, i guess thats close enough to this year, but may push into next year.
Euro schedule.
Full production 18th June 2012
Gate release of launch stock from 2nd July
Customer ordered cars built from August onwards.

Ford Australia get shafted continually by import supplies, don't think the ST will be any different. The way FoA get supplies it probably won't arrive till 2015 and they will be limited to 10 a month.

Originally Posted by stevz

Well it is doing ok, considering its been on the market 2 years longer, has barely had an update in that time, and a fresh new model is just around the corner. The falcon on the other hand, has just had a mk2 update and received ecolpi and ecoboost,(which were supposedly going to save the world if you listened to some around here) yet it has done absolutely nothing to arrest the slide. In fact it has sent sales backwards. The future is looking very grim for Aussie manufacturing, but I'd much rather be in Holden's shoes than Ford's at the moment.

Its dropped by around 25% from last year, and Holden also have a wagon and entry level V8 that Ford don't. The new model won't make a huge difference, the decline in large car sales means these drops are pretty much permanent now. They won't go back up to anywhere near where they used to be. Holden also now have an LPG model thats been on sale for 2 months, as has done nothing. LPi makes up around 30% of Falcon sales.

Originally Posted by Joe5619

We'll have to agree to disagree. Local Cruze has not done much for Cruze volumes if you ask me. I was expecting Cruze to be around 3-4000 cars each & every month by now. I'm disappointed more people dont see locally build products as being important. Cruze for me is proof of that.


local Cruze went on sold April 2011. Meaning the last 3 months of overseas Cruze was Qtr1 2011. Sales data here
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1377

Now compare, this to Qtr1 of this year (with hatch) here

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1377

That only equals to 759 more cars over 3 months. That is only 253 more Cruze's sold per month by being local. Hardly setting the world on fire, with a Hatch & all!!



Also, last point in relation to the above comment is what has been the sales slide of Commodore & Falcon 2012 vs (say) 2005 & that of Mazda 6 & Liberty from the same periods?

The hatch has done next to nothing to add to sales, Holden were expecting it to make up massive increases in volume but the reality is very different.

Aussie production has done nothing, the majority of the population more than likely believed the Korean made Cruze was Australian made anyway because it had a Holden badge on it.

[Nikked]

Isn't it sorta tradition for a wagon/hatch to not add drastic sales? As numbers of sedans decrease, because people opt for the wagon/hatch?

[Bossxr8]

Holden were saying that the Cruze sedan only competed in half the small car market, and by adding the Cruze hatch, would give them access to the other half, and sort of implied they could double sales because of that. If anything the hatch hasn't made any impact at all.

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by Nic85

had an old, rattly, underpowered diesel engine.

cant say I have driven an auto but the 1kd-ftv gets up and moves in manual form. They do get a diesel knock when cold, otherwise sounds like any other diesel

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

Well it is doing ok, considering its been on the market 2 years longer, has barely had an update in that time, and a fresh new model is just around the corner. The falcon on the other hand, has just had a mk2 update and received ecolpi and ecoboost,(which were supposedly going to save the world if you listened to some around here) yet it has done absolutely nothing to arrest the slide. In fact it has sent sales backwards. The future is looking very grim for Aussie manufacturing, but I'd much rather be in Holden's shoes than Ford's at the moment.

Neither manufacturer can feel comfortable. Sure Ford may pack up Falcon and build something else
but Holden has just committed to another 4-5 years of VF, which may or may not be a master stroke.
It could be as simple as fuel prices easing and getting buyers back through the door and for the record,
I hope both Commodore and Falcon survive and get up ticks in sales, good cars don't deserve to go out that way..

But I guarantee you this, Holden are quietly mortified at the current sales figures,
they're now committed big time and have been waiting (like Ford) for fleets to come back.

[jpd80]

I'm hearing that Toyota is selling GLX Prado for $40000!!!

Anyone able to confirm?

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm hearing that Toyota is selling GLX Prado for $40000!!!

Anyone able to confirm?

ROFL. Try $60k.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Yes GXL's for 60 kay roughly.

[Resurrection]

2,500 Commodores?!? That is also not good.

[burnz]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A140006F070VFACTS May 2012:
Brand Sales Movement% Share%
Toyota 20,443 +85.1 21.3
Holden 9017 -18.9 9.4
Mazda 8346 +40.5 8.7
Ford 7738 +13.3 8.1
Nissan 6966 +36.8 7.3
Hyundai 6886 -7.5 7.2
Mitsubishi 4739 +9.9 5.4
Volkswagen 3798 +30.7 4.9
Subaru 3803 +55 4.0
Honda 3103 +34.9 3.2

[jpd80]

Top - April 2012

1 Toyota HiLux 3565
2 Mazda3 3005
3 Toyota Corolla 2573
4 Holden Cruze 2315
5 Holden Commodore 2248
6 Hyundai i30 2147
7 Toyota Prado 1725
8 Toyota Camry 1602
9 Nissan Navara 1590
10 Mitsubishi Triton 1482

Those that say Cruze isn't doing anything take note, it's third in small cars behind Mazda 3 and Corolla.

[csv8]

Cruze wagon coming December...

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But I guarantee you this, Holden are quietly mortified at the current sales figures,
they're now committed big time and have been waiting (like Ford) for fleets to come back.

You are 100% right. The Cruze is doing nothing special as compared to what the Astra was 5 to 11 years ago (and in those days the Astra was often second best small car seller), and the cruze has the advantage of being given preferential treatment for government purchases. Holden has been dropping sales over the last few years, and if you look at the following chart, showing how the majors are tracking percentage wise (first five months 2012 to total 2011 sales)

Toyota = 47.25%
Holden = 36.12%
Mazda = 48%
Ford = 37.8%
Hyundai = 40.84%
Nissan = 46.45%
Mitsy = 40.32%
Volkswagon = 46.55%

It clearly shows Holden being the worst performers.

[Jengiz]

Congratulations Ford.

Sales up over 13% overall for the month

Territory up 166.7%

Focus up 46.1% and is the fastest growing car in its segment.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Those that say Cruze isn't doing anything take note, it's third in small cars behind Mazda 3 and Corolla.

I dont think anyone is saying it is not doing well (sort of), what we are saying is that local production has done nothing to increase volumes over the imported version.

[Nikked]

Yes, good numbers from ford!

While 13% isn't much, its nothing to sneeze at.


Chipping away here and there, top 2-3 at the end of the year, and falcon up to 1500

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yes, good numbers from ford!

While 13% isn't much, its nothing to sneeze at.


Chipping away here and there, top 2-3 at the end of the year, and falcon up to 1500

And Ranger over 3000 if they can get the supply.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You are 100% right. The Cruze is doing nothing special as compared to what the Astra was 5 to 11 years ago (and in those days the Astra was often second best small car seller), and the cruze has the advantage of being given preferential treatment for government purchases. Holden has been dropping sales over the last few years, and if you look at the following chart, showing how the majors are tracking percentage wise (first five months 2012 to total 2011 sales)

Toyota = 47.25%
Holden = 36.12%
Mazda = 48%
Ford = 37.8%
Hyundai = 40.84%
Nissan = 46.45%
Mitsy = 40.32%
Volkswagon = 46.55%

It clearly shows Holden being the worst performers.

Think of it this way, Holden's local production last month accounts for 70% 0f total sales.
At least Holden is taking control of supply of its most valuable products..

I'm also gladdened to see that even with low Falcon sales, Ford's total sales increased in April,
this bodes well for the company growing sales with newer products that Aussie buyers are taking up.
Now Ford needs to get those niggling supply issues sorted out...

As far as Falcon goes, I see EcoLPI and Ecoboost as "feelers", a tester to gauge what buyers want.
If neither of these "get a response, I think Ford needs to revisit other options that have been dismissed...

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

cant say I have driven an auto but the 1kd-ftv gets up and moves in manual form. They do get a diesel knock when cold, otherwise sounds like any other diesel

Please. Go take a Navara ST550 for a drive then come back and talk to me.