Why does buying cars in 2021 still suck?

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Salesmans words.."I'll make it work so you buy it from us"...Maybe because my trade-in becomes a $8000 clear profit when they resell it....Maybe because the dealer in Melbourne sells 10 times the volume of the QLD dealer, not to mention sells Freightliner, Fuso and other big boys on top of Mercs including a big ambulance fleet. And maybe the margins on a Vito 119CD LWB are very healthy to begin with.

More specifically he said that he was dealing with an interstate dealer, but the local dealer had a car. All he had to do was price match to secure the business because of the convenience of locality.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

And you pay the full price that you spend so much time drying to get discounted?

Not quite, being in the business (or any Business)you would understand the average amount of discount a customer would get on their purchase, which means you price it up to begin with. If you are no longer discounting, you could put a keener price on upfront. The customer can then decide if your price is enticing or not.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Not quite, being in the business (or any Business)you would understand the average amount of discount a customer would get on their purchase, which means you price it up to begin with. If you are no longer discounting, you could put a keener price on upfront. The customer can then decide if your price is enticing or not.

Any "drops" in price that Honda might show, for instance, would have been offset by paying less to franchise dealers by way of dealer holdbacks, incentives and so forth. So while they can show that the price might have come down, I bet if anything their net profit will have climbed.

The only downside for them is that their sales numbers will dwindle as a consequence as is already showing.

[SumoDog68]

In case of Tesla , price is a price , you never get a call from anyone , no hard sell and all done via website/email/sms . Quite refreshing .

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Any "drops" in price that Honda might show, for instance, would have been offset by paying less to franchise dealers by way of dealer holdbacks, incentives and so forth. So while they can show that the price might have come down, I bet if anything their net profit will have climbed.

The only downside for them is that their sales numbers will dwindle as a consequence as is already showing.

Yep, no matter how you price something, it has to provide good value, theres nothing in the Honda range that entices when the entry point is $31k.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Fiji

A good buyer strikes whilst the irons hot. Like I said with the fgx xr8, at first all the emotional buyers were running in and being belted by car salesman, heart first head last..

Then there was talk about the falcon sprint , but no specs , dealers were saying leave a $1000 to secure your car but no details on specs or price.

So no one wanted the base fgx xr8, iron hot time to strike. You dealers couldn’t move them.. had to beg people .. that’s when I come out of the woods to start talking.

Bought for $54400, then it was announced the sprint only had a measily 10kw more and you dealers wanted $68k for the xr8 sprint. Again all the emotional buyers got tagged. I came in through the back door whilst the iron was hot and grabbed a base xr8.

Turned out the sprint was no faster but $15k more. Ha

Being a buyer is about timing, it’s about walking away when the time isn’t right and never never shop with your heart, always with your head. You come out when it’s a dark day for the salesman, then uncloak them.

How would you feel if you found out that at $54k the dealer made $6k profit out of you?

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Fiji

A good buyer strikes whilst the irons hot. Like I said with the fgx xr8, at first all the emotional buyers were running in and being belted by car salesman, heart first head last..

Then there was talk about the falcon sprint , but no specs , dealers were saying leave a $1000 to secure your car but no details on specs or price.

So no one wanted the base fgx xr8, emotional buyers left their $1000 for the sprint. hot time to strike on the base fgx xr8. Just months earlier it was the best thing R-spec for xr8 money. You dealers couldn’t move them.. had to beg people .. that’s when I come out of the woods to start talking.

Bought for $54400, then it was announced the sprint only had a measily 10kw more and you dealers tagged all the emotional buyers who left their $1000 deposit blindly, thanked them with a whopping $68k for the xr8 sprint. Again all the emotional buyers got tagged. I came in through the back door whilst the iron was hot and grabbed a base xr8, a r-spec for $54400.

Turned out the sprint was no faster but $15k more. Ha

Being a buyer is about timing, it’s about walking away when the time isn’t right and never never shop with your heart, always with your head. You come out when it’s a dark day for the salesman, so you cannot walk away like you think.. you then uncloak them.

Why is it always about power and money with you. Does nothing else come into the equation? It’s all we hear about.

[PG2]

If you keep answering Fiji and asking him questions, he is more than entitled to keep posting... just saying.

Having said that,

Fiji, once again, you've had your fun and it's time for you to take a step back. You are now just making the same point over and over again, just with some different words.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Any "drops" in price that Honda might show, for instance, would have been offset by paying less to franchise dealers by way of dealer holdbacks, incentives and so forth. So while they can show that the price might have come down, I bet if anything their net profit will have climbed.

The only downside for them is that their sales numbers will dwindle as a consequence as is already showing.

Honda has had a ****ty range for the past 10+ years and are yesterdays hero, their latest fixed pricing move has nothing to do with their dwindling sales, their dwindling sales is because they sell a mediocre range at premium pricing.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Honda has had a ****ty range for the past 10+ years and are yesterdays hero, their latest fixed pricing move has nothing to do with their dwindling sales, their dwindling sales is because they sell a mediocre range at premium pricing.

Sorry, I'm not buying that their latest move has nothing to do with dwindling sales.

You can accept it has something to do with it and I'll accept it may not be the sole reason, but come on..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Unfortunately, given the whirlwind that is the carsales business the submission of a quote in writing to someone who simply asks for one is rarely success. If a salesperson wants to become known as being a good salesperson because he wins businesss only on price and submitting quotes that probably make the dealership very little by way of profit then that's not the salesperson I want in my sales team.

Perhaps you think that there's still profit to be made by doing this but despite the opinions of this thread if you're in a quote war with other dealerships the reality is probably worse than you think.

How are you any different to any other business selling a product? You already list 'indicative' prices on Carsales, you know what you bought something for and you know what profit margin you want to make on it, its also not just all about price, I compete against BAPCOR and GPC Asia Pacific in certain product categories, in some they're my reseller network, in one of those categories they're competitors, its all about availability of product - imagine being able to buy the car online and then if you are in Melbourne metropolitan area, being able to have the car within 2 hours or next business day state wide.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How are you any different to any other business selling a product? You already list 'indicative' prices on Carsales, you know what you bought something for and you know what profit margin you want to make on it, its also not just all about price, I compete against BAPCOR and GPC Asia Pacific in certain product categories, in some they're my reseller network, in one of those categories they're competitors, its all about availability of product - imagine being able to buy the car online and then if you are in Melbourne metropolitan area, being able to have the car within 2 hours or next business day state wide.

Your last sentence there might work for a fixed price model but you're ignoring that the majority of buyers want to take a price from one dealer to another - this is the norm, not the exception.

A car dealership will not be a successful business if it simply just gives up competitive pricing without trying to use sales tactics - a philosophy that is so ingrained that it means manufacturers like Honda are trying to get away from it. It may very well be the way of the future but for now, the same dealership sales merry go round method when you have many buyers playing dealerships off against each other will continue.

[PG2]

We tried fixed pricing on our used car stock many, many years ago.

It worked there for a while and I really think that it would have kept working but buyers were going to our other dealerships (we had a few locations and were allowed to sell each other's stock) and buying the car off them for as little as $100 less.

Some dealerships cut their own throats.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Your last sentence there might work for a fixed price model but you're ignoring that the majority of buyers want to take a price from one dealer to another - this is the norm, not the exception.

A car dealership will not be a successful business if it simply just gives up competitive pricing without trying to use sales tactics - a philosophy that is so ingrained that it means manufacturers like Honda are trying to get away from it. It may very well be the way of the future but for now, the same dealership sales merry go round method when you have many buyers playing dealerships off against each other will continue.

I'm not saying you HAVE to switch over to a fixed cost model, but offer it as an option?

Can still run your normal operation but you can do some online stuff - have a basic e-commerce platform under a different name from your primary business, worth a shot in this day and age?

Just providing more options for those inclined to purchase down those channels to market.

Originally Posted by PG2

We tried fixed pricing on our used car stock many, many years ago.

It worked there for a while and I really think that it would have kept working but buyers were going to our other dealerships (we had a few locations and were allowed to sell each other's stock) and buying the car off them for as little as $100 less.

Some dealerships cut their own throats.

That's an interesting one, your're allowing your customer to play off your own staff against each other on the same car.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm not saying you HAVE to switch over to a fixed cost model, but offer it as an option?

Can still run your normal operation but you can do some online stuff - have a basic e-commerce platform under a different name from your primary business, worth a shot in this day and age?

It doesn't really work. People eventually find out they are the same company and then accuse the dealership of being rip-offs.

How they find out sometimes is through their own sales staff that are lazy and point customers to the website.

There have been plenty of dealerships that have opened up a generic yard and as hard as they have tried to keep the separation, the public have found out.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's an interesting one, your're allowing your customer to play off your own staff against each other on the same car.

Very common for multi-franchises. Each franchise is run as a separate profit centre and at the end of the day, each manager is responsible for their own profit centre. If that means cutting the throat of one of their own, then so be it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

It doesn't really work. People eventually find out they are the same company and then accuse the dealership of being rip-offs.

How they find out sometimes is through their own sales staff that are lazy and point customers to the website.

There have been plenty of dealerships that have opened up a generic yard and as hard as they have tried, the public have found out.

Burson, Autobarn, Autopro all sell the same stuff, from the same suppliers and they're all part of the same company but they have different channels to market and pricing structures.

Same thing for NAPA, Repco and R&E

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Fiji

I will give you an example.. years back I worked for a business that had a fleet of company cars.. one car did almost 90,000km from brand new without an oil change. We had it serviced and the oil come out like sand.. then we decided to trade the car in, I called up my mate who is a dealer principal, I was completely honest about the car and gave it to him at about half normal trade in value. From memory about $7k.. he said don’t worry we will sort it out.. he calls me the next week and says they sold it for $18k, laughing on the phone. buyer didn’t know what hit em. He thanked me for the profit he made and sent me a jacket and a bottle of wine.

...and then the damned alarm went off and it was time to get up and wash and vacuum the Aurion...

Thanks mate - I haven't had such a great laugh in ages!

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Burson, Autobarn, Autopro all sell the same stuff, from the same suppliers and they're all part of the same company but they have different channels to market and pricing structures.

Same thing for NAPA, Repco and R&E

I understand that and you're right, however, I have never been told by someone behind the counter, "If you don't want to pay that much go to Repco, they have it much cheaper."

Some sales staff will say the above. They will manipulate systems to get the sale. It's not ripping the customer off, as they are normally the beneficiaries.

EDIT: I also tried to answer your added on question in your previous post in my previous post.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Your last sentence there might work for a fixed price model but you're ignoring that the majority of buyers want to take a price from one dealer to another - this is the norm, not the exception.

A car dealership will not be a successful business if it simply just gives up competitive pricing without trying to use sales tactics - a philosophy that is so ingrained that it means manufacturers like Honda are trying to get away from it. It may very well be the way of the future but for now, the same dealership sales merry go round method when you have many buyers playing dealerships off against each other will continue.

Do you not think(respectfully),that a lot of manufacturers may go down this agency style model?It seems the way of the future?More transparency perhaps?Less stress from the consumers point of view.Car purchasing can be a real pain in the @#$&.

[MercuryT]

Was screwed over regarding the Renault I was really interested in.

Not until final stages hear it's was a repairable write off (WOTR)

Basically means very expensive to register and they should have said that to start with.

Complete waste of time and in fact very deceptive.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Was screwed over regarding the Renault I was really interested in.

Not until final stages hear it's was a repairable write off (WOTR)

Basically means very expensive to register and they should have said that to start with.

Complete waste of time and in fact very deceptive.

How is a repairable write off more expensive to rego.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Was screwed over regarding the Renault I was really interested in.

Not until final stages hear it's was a repairable write off (WOTR)

Basically means very expensive to register and they should have said that to start with.

Complete waste of time and in fact very deceptive.

You've just been handed a blessing - Renault

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You've just been handed a blessing - Renault

Lol nah I want one.

They are great cars and my mate has one.

It's bloody quick and great value compared to a boring Golf or similar

[MercuryT]

My mate has the Red Bull edition 265 Cup with ECU edit.

It's extremely fast. Mid 4 second car easy all for less than 20K.

Would embarrass most cars (including Fords) ttriple that price Franco.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Lol nah I want one.................

Don't sweat Fiji will lock you in with a bargain

[hackney]

If everyone pulled back on purchasing a new/used vehicle.This craziness would disappear very quickly.You would then have the good old overstock issue,dealers/manufacturers would then have to lower prices,put in incentives to move stock.Majority of dealers are just sharks anyway.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Was screwed over regarding the Renault I was really interested in.

Not until final stages hear it's was a repairable write off (WOTR)

Basically means very expensive to register and they should have said that to start with.

Complete waste of time and in fact very deceptive.

If it has been repaired properly there shouldn’t be any problems either in the car or getting it registered.Usually a fine line between write off and repairable damage anyway.Quite often a properly repaired car will have better panel fit and finish than new.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Fiji

A good buyer strikes whilst the irons hot. Like I said with the fgx xr8, at first all the emotional buyers were running in and being belted by car salesman, heart first head last..

Then there was talk about the falcon sprint , but no specs , dealers were saying leave a $1000 to secure your car but no details on specs or price.

So no one wanted the base fgx xr8, emotional buyers left their $1000 for the sprint. hot time to strike on the base fgx xr8. Just months earlier it was the best thing R-spec for xr8 money. But with talk of the sprint, You dealers couldn’t move them.. had to beg people .. that’s when I come out of the woods to start talking wen they were banking up in your lots.

Bought for $54400, then it was announced the sprint only had a measily 10kw more (2.5% more power in over boost and same torque) and you dealers tagged all the emotional buyers who left their $1000 deposit blindly, thanked them with a whopping $68k for the xr8 sprint, over $rrp. Again all the emotional buyers got tagged. I came in through the back door whilst the iron was hot and grabbed a base xr8, a r-spec for $54400. No salesman walked away as you say.

Turned out the sprint was no faster but $15k more. Ha

Being a buyer is about timing, it’s about staying away when the time isn’t right and never never shop with your heart, always with your head. You come out when it’s a dark day for the salesman, so you cannot walk away like you think.. you then uncloak them and give them a public lashing

So you bought a superceeded performance car in basically run out to save money and think that makes for a bargain.
Please, you got it at that price because everyone else wanted the Sprint badge no matter how little more it provides.

News flash everyone, wait until the car you want is no longer at the forefront of performance and get a discount..lol
Who'd have thunk hey.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So you bought a superceeded performance car in basically run out to save money and think that makes for a bargain.
Please, you got it at that price because everyone else wanted the Sprint badge no matter how little more it provides.

News flash everyone, wait until the car you want is no longer at the forefront of performance and get a discount..lol
Who'd have thunk hey.

He is not the ‘brightest’ torch in the pack!

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Fiji

The whole fgx range was a run out special. Fgx xr8 was the 2012 r-spec GT. All those V8 Miami/Barra turbo cars didn’t improve for years, including the sprint series.

All the fgx xr8 did was leave the fpv Gt r-spec buyers with a red face after they paid $30k more for the same car.


Also the sprint series finished up before the fgx xr8.. after sprint was announced and it was such a meagre improvement (if any), the base fgx xr8 quickly shot back up in price.. the emotional buyers who left their $1000 blind deposit quickly snatched their money back thinking “I ain’t paying an extra $15k for a tickled tune and black paint on the wheels.

It’s smart buying.

Fiji, serious question, have you driven a Sprint? Be honest.

A simple yes or no answer will suffice.