Holden Sportswagon Release News

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Pfft.. practicality is probably the number 1 reason wagons exist in the first place.. :

Yep. For all the doubters, look at who buys the Falcon wagon in the largest numbers. Falcon wagons are not there to look pretty...they're there as workhorses for their space. The VE looks far more modern and streamlined, but a tradesman who takes one over the BFIII clearly either didn't look at the Falcon, or doesn't carry that much with them.
The VE surely has aimed at the private market moreso, as wagons aren't there for true driveability. They carry loads.
The SUV has replaced the wagon as the practical family wagon. Ford has done the right thing by investing in the territory and leaving a skeleton crew remaining in the wagons.

Originally Posted by Citric GT

Righto. Lets see which car sells the most within the next 12 months. Your practicle but horrible Falcon wagon or the much better Holden Sportswagon...:the_finge

The Sportswagon might look better, but it is not practical.
Practicality is the reason why wagons exist.

Families do not buy wagons much anymore. They choose SUVs. The market will tell you that, as Toyota and Mitsubishi dropped their respective wagons and invested in their large and small SUVs. Ford to some extent have also done this. Holden however have had no decent SUV, with the Captiva being grossly inferior to many other offerings.
Holden are effective conceding that, as they realise they have to cover ground.
It simply isn't cost effective, as the wagon will still compete with the Captiva, although the wagon lacks room to be considered as an effective tool-of-the-trade, and if people don't need to carry large loads, they'll buy a sedan, as they're better to drive, and cheaper too.
Holden is throwing money into a deep well. While it is a nice car, the market segment they appear to be aiming at (families) has chosen the SUV as their preferred family vehicle.

People who buy the VE Wagon will buy it because they want a Holden wagon.

Best wishes.

[JutroXR8]

I think the new Wagon will end up canibalising the existing sedan varients. Although it should improve its sales, it will only be a modest increase. At the end of the day its still a commodore, how many varients do we need. Thats why Ford went the way of the Territory. Its a totally different car.

[Sprint347]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If Holden sell 800 a month of these they'll sell 800 a month less of something else...

Er, says who?

What if they cut into Ford/Toyota/Mitsubishi's market share?

[FordFella]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Yep. For all the doubters, look at who buys the Falcon wagon in the largest numbers. Falcon wagons are not there to look pretty...they're there as workhorses for their space. The VE looks far more modern and streamlined, but a tradesman who takes one over the BFIII clearly either didn't look at the Falcon, or doesn't carry that much with them.
The VE surely has aimed at the private market moreso, as wagons aren't there for true driveability. They carry loads.
The SUV has replaced the wagon as the practical family wagon. Ford has done the right thing by investing in the territory and leaving a skeleton crew remaining in the wagons.



The Sportswagon might look better, but it is not practical.
Practicality is the reason why wagons exist.

Families do not buy wagons much anymore. They choose SUVs. The market will tell you that, as Toyota and Mitsubishi dropped their respective wagons and invested in their large and small SUVs. Ford to some extent have also done this. Holden however have had no decent SUV, with the Captiva being grossly inferior to many other offerings.
Holden are effective conceding that, as they realise they have to cover ground.
It simply isn't cost effective, as the wagon will still compete with the Captiva, although the wagon lacks room to be considered as an effective tool-of-the-trade, and if people don't need to carry large loads, they'll buy a sedan, as they're better to drive, and cheaper too.
Holden is throwing money into a deep well. While it is a nice car, the market segment they appear to be aiming at (families) has chosen the SUV as their preferred family vehicle.

People who buy the VE Wagon will buy it because they want a Holden wagon.

Best wishes.

Very good points. Clearly so many of us here a getting caught out by the "wow" factor of the VE's looks. Holden have done a very good job in exterior design but (as I have said so many times) it is irrevocably compromised. The wagon is the same.

For one, according to several initial reports, the thing is impossible to see out with the massive D pillars. Looks ahead of substance once again. Not only this, but the room in the back is inferior to the one it replaces - new models are supposed to improve in every single way and this is a reverse, thanks to Holden deciding to lift the floor up to make it easier to put stuff in apparently. They don't need to do that in an SUV...

The humble old Falcon wagon is boring and very aged. But would you really want Ford risking 100 million to get into a segment that is in decline? The Falcon wagon is a panel van. That's all it was ever designed to be and the FG wagon (when released) will be the same, unless Holden's plan works out - in which a Ford "Sportswagon" would be developed. But suppose that Ford entered the segment now and the segment failed - Ford would be in a huge pickle. Sure, a FG Sportswagon would be nice but what if the fate of the company rested on its success? Big money is involved here people.

One thing we seem to have all forgotten is that Holden's wagon came 18 months after the sedan - and all of us are whinging because Ford hasn't released one 3 months after FG was released. Seriously...

BTW FPV F6X beat a Commodore Sportswagon SSV in a review in Motor. Haven't got the issue but could others enlighten us?

[GlennBA]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Could you get a V8 in a AU or BA wagon???

Not BA, but V8 was available in AU wagon.

The BF3 wagon is a waste of time imo. They're bland as anything.. you can only get xt or futura in auto only and all grey interior.. they're fleet cars.
I went to visit my aunty and drove her BF wagon and it felt really bargey and the diff noise and road noise from it was terrible for a brand new car. Same was my cousins BA wagon. It only had 40,000km and it reminded me of being in a cab with the amount of noise coming from the back. I wouldn't be shelling out $35k for one of those, when you could get the much more stylish and refined commodore alternative for not much extra, with a whole lot more variety with options.

[Bucknaked]

The mondeo from the front looks like the FG. I think they share the same hat

[FPV8U]

COnsidering all the knocking this wagon has been getting on here, they look great and are selling we'll in my local area, not so much the SS or SS-V but the "Family" models are doing well.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by GlennBA

Not BA, but V8 was available in AU wagon.

The BF3 wagon is a waste of time imo. They're bland as anything.. you can only get xt or futura in auto only and all grey interior.. they're fleet cars.
I went to visit my aunty and drove her BF wagon and it felt really bargey and the diff noise and road noise from it was terrible for a brand new car. Same was my cousins BA wagon. It only had 40,000km and it reminded me of being in a cab with the amount of noise coming from the back. I wouldn't be shelling out $35k for one of those, when you could get the much more stylish and refined commodore alternative for not much extra, with a whole lot more variety with options.

The point of the Falcon's wagon is not to be plush. It's a balance between driveability, zip and space. But it's still a workhorse. Nothing more.
Although vehicles like the Hilux, Ranger, Colorado/Rodeo and Triton carry good loads, they're effectively small trucks.
The VE might look stylish, but its purpose is different to the BA/BF wagons. The VE is not a workhorse. It is aimed to entice families to return to the dying wagon market, although the rear space is not enough to carry much should you decide to go on holiday.
The BFIII will continue to be a boring, plain looking pile of crap, but it's market is far better defined than the VE, which is a real credit to the vehicle and shows why Ford has been so smart about their decision to not invest large amounts of money in it.

The BFIII is ONLY being kept because it is popular with fleets. That is its purpose. Ford are not spending much on it as its pretty much a BFII with ESP and a few more goodies (correct me if I am wrong please).

However, the VE Wagon is still intriguing because you speak of the BF wagons being like barges, but the VE will still not be as good to drive as any sedan equivalent, so if you're after a vehicle that is a greater pleasure to drive, why not just buy a sedan?

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by TXR

The mondeo from the front looks like the FG. I think they share the same hat

Kinetic?

[gemibabe]

have to agree with ford. the wagons are butt ugly and the suspension in them doesn't last... nearly everyone i see is sitting on its ringhole..

I've seen new holdens, they are ok, I'm over wagons LOL a crewman, now if ford brought out the equivalent.. yes please!!!!

[SSbaby]

Just read in today's CarsGuide ...

A total of 1002 Sportswagons were sold in July. The article goes on to say Holden expects to shift that number each month.

Holden would be very pleased with that start.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Just read in today's CarsGuide ...

A total of 1002 Sportswagons were sold in July. The article goes on to say Holden expects to shift that number each month.

Holden would be very pleased with that start.

And FORD reckon there isn't a market for wagons !!!! It would be interesting to see the sales figures on the luxury models ???

[weenie]

Looks like the motor review stated that it actually handles a bit better than the equivalent sedan , as it is a bit stiffer to allow for its load carrying ability. Looks like one manufacturer is looking a new ideas & not ataying in the dark ages with fleet sales that just buy turnover & make no profit. I am sure there are a fair amount of buyers that are in the subaru ,& suv market at the moment that will jump into one of these. It may have less load area than the bf, but it sure as hell has more than any subie or audi etc. Funny how they compared it to a f6x in motor. Still held it own no problem.Mid 13 sec quarter. MMMM
Cmon ford get you rfingers out of your ears & start listening to customers.

[SSbaby]

Yes, those sales figures are better than for Holden's own Captiva and not far from Territory/Kluger.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Just read in today's CarsGuide ...

A total of 1002 Sportswagons were sold in July. The article goes on to say Holden expects to shift that number each month.

Holden would be very pleased with that start.

That's a pretty good result. If I ever had to own a wagon I would cringe but not so much with the VE. I could live with the 300C as well.

As for the Mondeo, love the sedan (even though the rear is a bit of a let down) but the wagon looks downright ugly. Not a fan.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Rodp

That's a pretty good result. If I ever had to own a wagon I would cringe but not so much with the VE. I could live with the 300C as well.

As for the Mondeo, love the sedan (even though the rear is a bit of a let down) but the wagon looks downright ugly. Not a fan.

Well I'd never own a wagon... mainly because the wife wants the convenience of the 3rd row seat. Personally, I wouldn't mind the grunt and space it offers... it would be a nice compromise for either of us - but she wouldn't be seen for quits in a 'wagon'.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Just read in today's CarsGuide ...

A total of 1002 Sportswagons were sold in July. The article goes on to say Holden expects to shift that number each month.

Holden would be very pleased with that start.

Considering Holden hasn't had a wagon for quite awhile since the VZ wound up production, 1000 sales isn't that great. Give it a few months and that should drop off. No way will they sustain 1000 sales a month.

It outsold the show pony VE ute though, man has that thing been a failure, only around 800 sales. I've never seen numbers below 1000 for Holden utes before. FG ute is killing it. Fords decision to keep a seperate tray was a very good one.

[gemibabe]

have to laugh when they mention 'sports' wagon.. is that because it comes with a wing ? ha ha !!

I own a sports wagon :P





ps: its for sale

[3vXT]

One of my neighbors has just bought one and it looks like sex. I'm not sure what model it is, i don't think its an SS, but i'd have one in about half a second.

[Tles]

Probably here somewhere already, but Motor did a Adelaide to Sydney run in SS sportswagon, F6-X and BMW335i estate. From this and all the other reports I'd take a Sportswagon over the VE Sedan anyday, but you can't beat the supreme touring comfort and effortless shove of the F6-X. Fuel consumption is another story, but compare that to a 110g small Euro wagon which is twitchy enough to make you both tired, sorenecked and carsick on typical Aussie highways.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by gemibabe

have to laugh when they mention 'sports' wagon.. is that because it comes with a wing ? ha ha !!

I own a sports wagon :P





ps: its for sale

No it means it doesn't have cart springs.

At least Holden are trying hard to generate some marketing impetus to steal some sales away from the ubiquitous SUVs. Whether they are able to maintain this in the long run remains to be seen. As long as families don't need the 3rd row seats, the wagon has a chance of surviving. As I said, at least Holden are trying to save and reinvent the humble wagon.

From all reports, the VE wagon is better than the sedan. NVH levels are at least as good as a sedan's... and that says a lot. And whoever said the wagon can't fit a double pram is telling porkies... said he who actually owns a double pram with go-kart size wheels. :

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Rodp

That's a pretty good result. If I ever had to own a wagon I would cringe but not so much with the VE. I could live with the 300C as well.

As for the Mondeo, love the sedan (even though the rear is a bit of a let down) but the wagon looks downright ugly. Not a fan.

That result would have bene made up of probalry 60% Holden dealer demo registrations!

Its early days.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by csv8

And FORD reckon there isn't a market for wagons !!!! It would be interesting to see the sales figures on the luxury models ???

Ford already has a wagon, its called the Territory, and it sells approx 1200 - 1300 per month on average.

I know which wagon id rather, one with 7 seats and a half decent sized boot.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

A total of 1002 Sportswagons were sold in July. The article goes on to say Holden expects to shift that number each month.

Holden would be very pleased with that start.

And probably 1002 less sedans sold as a result...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Ford already has a wagon, its called the Territory, and it sells approx 1200 - 1300 per month on average.

I know which wagon id rather, one with 7 seats and a half decent sized boot.

Yep, the Terri absolutely spanks this half baked hatch in features and practicality too.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

And probably 1002 less sedans sold as a result...

Ahh but who said Holden would be lucky to sell half that number? Who was it that was writing it's obituary before its actual release? Last time I remember, it was someone who was lauding his 'credibility'.

And I did notice the Holden Ute sales had dropped so that Holden could push the wagon to the showrooms with adequate supply. Don't forget, Holden do have their export obligations to fulfil. The plant is running at capacity, hence the drop in VE ute sales during the month.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Ahh but who said Holden would be lucky to sell half that number? Who was it that was writing it's obituary before its actual release? Last time I remember, it was someone who was lauding his 'credibility'.

And I did notice the Holden Ute sales had dropped so that Holden could push the wagon to the showrooms with adequate supply. Don't forget, Holden do have their export obligations to fulfil. The plant is running at capacity, hence the drop in VE ute sales during the month.

Holden ute sales dropped thanks to FG ute coming online, not because sports wagon stole from its productin numbers.

If you have a look at Holden current ute stocks theres plenty laying around dealers.

As for sports wagon as i already said most registered in the first month would be dealer demos, not retail cars.

Holdens sedan sales will be hurt by sports wagon, just as Falcon sales were hurt by Territory. How many Falcon owners went to Territories? Theres 4 alone in my family!

Cheers.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Holden ute sales dropped thanks to FG ute coming online, not because sports wagon stole from its productin numbers.

If you have a look at Holden current ute stocks theres plenty laying around dealers.

As for sports wagon as i already said most registered in the first month would be dealer demos, not retail cars.

Cheers.

It would be good to actually know how many FG utes were sold during the month. Whatever review you care to read, the VE ute is the much better drive, except for that horrid auto everyone keeps complaining about. However, the ride is far superior. Sorry to digress, I know its not a Ute topic.

There's plenty of Ford FG stock at present too, both Ute and Sedans (and let's be honest). Although its good to see more FG's about the place.... I'm seeing heaps every day and they do look better than any Falcon ever IMO.

Anyway, just found this link on the Territory/Kluger/Sportswagon comparison (no I haven't read it, yet!)...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/batt...307217992.html

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

It would be good to actually know how many FG utes were sold during the month. Whatever review you care to read, the VE ute is the much better drive, except for that horrid auto everyone keeps complaining about. However, the ride is far superior. Sorry to digress, I know its not a Ute topic.

There's plenty of Ford FG stock at present too, both Ute and Sedans (and let's be honest). Although its good to see more FG's about the place.... I'm seeing heaps every day and they do look better than any Falcon ever IMO.

Anyway, just found this link on the Territory/Kluger/Sportswagon comparison (no I haven't read it, yet!)...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/batt...307217992.html

Regardless of the fact its a better drive, its a crap work ute, and always will be.

The Falcons will always win as a work ute...

[TC200six]

I saw a VE wagon last week and there's hardly any room for a big load in the boot without the back seat folded down. You just can't expect it to be as practical as the Falcon station wagon as it is a "sports" wagon and not a "station" wagon. It looked good though.