Falcon has a future with us, says Ford - Page 4

cosmo20btt · 10-12-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

The "NIID" aspect doesn't seem keep Ford from building a number of Euro cars in North America for the US market.

So what does everyone think the Eruo IV emissions spec was met for on the I6? Why would Ford bother meeting this spec if it is not required in Oz, or is it required in Oz?

Steve

I believe we have to meet it next year as that's what is making the decision on our falcon wagon hard.

Paxton · 10-12-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That's good to know, because a few of the guys who are doing 70 hour weeks were wondering when things would pick up......

That bad is it?

I knew there was overtime, but I didn't know it was that bad.

Is there any talk of increasing the Line Rate?

vztrt · 10-12-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

The "NIID" aspect doesn't seem keep Ford from building a number of Euro cars in North America for the US market.

So what does everyone think the Eruo IV emissions spec was met for on the I6? Why would Ford bother meeting this spec if it is not required in Oz, or is it required in Oz?

Steve

July 2010 all new cars built after will be required to comply. I think the I6 complies now after the last couple of updates.

**Bluehoon** · 10-12-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

July 2010 all new cars built after will be required to comply. I think the I6 complies now after the last couple of updates.

I believe the I6 passed, the Fg's with Zf that do the sub 10 ltr per 100kms are the pilot models (if that makes sense). Wondering when the Tezza gets the updated motor and runing gear..
It may appear that they're trying to decide on the wagon, line up the new V8 and hit the market hard with a complete model revamp (Falcon, Wagon, Fpv's, Territory all at once) top to bottom...
Can see Burela shooting for this and going like the clappers with it too.

Just my own interpretation.. Could be wrong too...

Swordsman88 · 11-12-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

I believe the I6 passed, the Fg's with Zf that do the sub 10 ltr per 100kms are the pilot models (if that makes sense). Wondering when the Tezza gets the updated motor and runing gear..
It may appear that they're trying to decide on the wagon, line up the new V8 and hit the market hard with a complete model revamp (Falcon, Wagon, Fpv's, Territory all at once) top to bottom...
Can see Burela shooting for this and going like the clappers with it too.

Just my own interpretation.. Could be wrong too...

Interesting theory bluehoon. Could be on to something there. With ecoboost and diesel territory coming holden had better work harder with this SIDI/DOD spin because local ford products are going to get even better in the near future. And burela won't be backwards in launching the stuff niether....Holden out engineer Ford my behind LOL!

You are also right RE I6 emissions. To my knowledge the 'updated cat converter' models (that dropped fuel burn a bit more too...) are 99% compliant now....

vztrt · 11-12-2009, 01:40 AM

Either way the 2010 engines will have no issues in terms of emissions.

Ohio XB · 12-12-2009, 02:39 PM

If the latest version of the Falcon were designed in Dearborn, would that generation of Falcon still be called "The Great Australian Road Car" when sold in Australia?

Steve

cosmo20btt · 12-12-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

If the latest version of the Falcon were designed in Dearborn, would that generation of Falcon still be called "The Great Australian Road Car" when sold in Australia?

Steve

Probably not.

R-Design · 12-12-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

If the latest version of the Falcon were designed in Dearborn, would that generation of Falcon still be called "The Great Australian Road Car" when sold in Australia?

Steve

If it’s a FWD Taurus badged as a Falcon, it’ll be called a laughing stock. Tell us it isn’t so Steve!

OZQUAD44 · 12-12-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I wish they'd just 'twin' the Mustang and the Falcon - build them off the same platform.

The answers so obvious its just staring them in the face.

They couldn't do that it would give the mustang really good road manners and a much improved ability around undulating corners......... and that aint how a muscle car handles! Muscle cars need lots of power down in a straight line and thats it! forget about corners, unless its tail out!

P.S. I'm being silly.

P.P.S. Yes your right, seems so simple doesn't it.

But you have to consider that we are dealing with a parent company that continues to struggle with a GRWD platform. Ford builds cars in each category across different regions across the globe that are, almost the same size, look very similar, and yet are built up on completely different platforms. Are they ever going to work this out?

Why can't the Crown Victoria have the same platform as a Falcon, why can't a Falcon ever get a run in the US - at least for a look, How is it that GM can get a Commodore into that market (police car) in replacement of a Ford product no less, but ford itself won't even consider a Falcon in the same market? Surely Falcon sales eating into crown Victoria sales beats GM sales doing it.

Why does the Mondeo look almost identical to the FG. How much duplication of work went into these two cars for them to end up so similar in look on the road.

OZQUAD44 · 12-12-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

If the latest version of the Falcon were designed in Dearborn, would that generation of Falcon still be called "The Great Australian Road Car" when sold in Australia?

Steve

The great Australian Road Car is near and dear to me, but I suggest that this symbolism is lost on most Aussie's nowadays. Ford AU hasn't pushed that line for a long time, which is a shame.

I think if Ford, Globally, made a team to design a GRWD platform made up of members from each region. Then Australia (and other regions for that matter) could claim some ownership of the platform. The top part of the cars can still be built in each region as they do now, but all sharing the same underpinnings.

Then they could call it, Falcon the "Clever Australian Road Car"

greenfoam · 12-12-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Bloody good point right there. I read that other article as well, I'd be curious to see what sort of response you get from them.

As far as RWD goes, did FoA not conduct a consumer survey only recently which determined that RWD was still important to the customer? I seem to recall a quote from Burela about it...

Hoons laws have killed RWD cars :0, I really wonder what is the point in being able to steer a car with the rear wheels when it's x10 illegal, if you can't do that then you may as well be in a smaller lighter and most likely within the legal limits alot faster FWD. It's the sad truth

OZQUAD44 · 12-12-2009, 04:37 PM

Its seems the truth at times is from one perspective Greenfoam.

Sure anti hoon laws are design to change habits, but front wheel drive cars won't be parked in my driveway in the forceeable future unless the wife wants a shopping trolley or they remove one of my testicles.

For me is not about stepping the car out, its about power down at any point in the driving experience. FWD drive cars are fine and dandy but lets face it, once a car gets any sort of girth into it FWD cars are like dancing with your sister! Anti hoon laws or not.

Ohio XB · 12-12-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

If it’s a FWD Taurus badged as a Falcon, it’ll be called a laughing stock. Tell us it isn’t so Steve!

I'm not talking about that. I mean if the current Orion platform were redesigned in Dearbon into a revised RWD platform and was used for a global car in the US, Australia, and perhaps somewhere else, would this Falcon still be considered of Australian heritage enough to still be the beloved vehicle it is now?

Steve

**Bluehoon** · 12-12-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I'm not talking about that. I mean if the current Orion platform were redesigned in Dearbon into a revised RWD platform and was used for a global car in the US, Australia, and perhaps somewhere else, would this Falcon still be considered of Australian heritage enough to still be the beloved vehicle it is now?

Steve

hi Steve,

Simply no! Ford US take back something AU perfected to call it their own... That's a slap in the face imo.. little extreme but you get the idea..

If Ford US came to Ford AU and said R & D a global solution like the T6 project, and leveraged the knowledge in AU, then kudos to them and they have my respect for doing so.

Cheers

Bossxr8 · 12-12-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

There were two things stopping LHD Middle East exports for Falcon. The first was NIID. Not invented in Detroit. The second was the existing Crown Vic. If that wasn't around. Ford would've needed a car in that market.

But surely the yanks knew the Crown Vic was only going to last a few more years before it went out of production, they knew it could never pass the coming crash safety regs, so for them to use that as an excuse is a total cop out.

NIID is a lot more likely.

NIID is also proven by not replacing the Crown Vic with a new model, and rather than replace it with the Falcon they will let it die and let the sales go to other manufacturers. The Taurus is not a true replacement for the CV.

R-Design · 12-12-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

hi Steve,

Simply no! Ford US take back something AU perfected to call it their own... That's a slap in the face imo.. little extreme but you get the idea..

If Ford US came to Ford AU and said R & D a global solution like the T6 project, and leveraged the knowledge in AU, then kudos to them and they have my respect for doing so.

Cheers

May be a slap in the face but it if it's a choice between that and nothing I know what I'd go for. It is curious that Ford AU is doing all this engineering work on the T6 & the Indian Fiesta when their strength is in large RWD sedans.

phillyc · 12-12-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

But you have to consider that we are dealing with a parent company that continues to struggle with a GRWD platform. Ford builds cars in each category across different regions across the globe that are, almost the same size, look very similar, and yet are built up on completely different platforms. Are they ever going to work this out?

They have now. It's started with Fiesta. The next product is the 2010/2011 Focus/Cmax etc. The next will be Mondeo/Taurus. The next is GRWD. If it happens. But, Ford did say that when they are profitable again, GRWD will be back on the agenda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

Why can't the Crown Victoria have the same platform as a Falcon, why can't a Falcon ever get a run in the US - at least for a look, How is it that GM can get a Commodore into that market (police car) in replacement of a Ford product no less, but ford itself won't even consider a Falcon in the same market? Surely Falcon sales eating into crown Victoria sales beats GM sales doing it.

Yes, they should.
SWB-Mustang
MWB-Falcon
LWB-Crown Vic, Fairlane, Ute, Wagon

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

Surely Falcon sales eating into crown Victoria sales beats GM sales doing it.

Yes!

ChemicalHorizon · 13-12-2009, 01:19 AM

Knew i had this photo somewhere...ment to find it when the thread of was Middle East stuff earlier...but these are everywhere. Never really got a chance to look at them closley and this photo was taken from our moving mini van thinggy in Jordan around a year ago.

Could you see a falcon there instead?

Deco28 · 13-12-2009, 01:25 AM

I'm new to this thread, but myopinion is that the Falcon will always have a future in Australia as it is such a well known nameplate.

I hope both it and the Commodore stay RWD, and continually keep challenging each other so that the level of australian engineering and craftmanship can match the best in the world.

I also hope they stay RWD for at least a decade after I finish Uni LOL.

I want to buy them =[.

irlewy86 · 13-12-2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I'm not talking about that. I mean if the current Orion platform were redesigned in Dearbon into a revised RWD platform and was used for a global car in the US, Australia, and perhaps somewhere else, would this Falcon still be considered of Australian heritage enough to still be the beloved vehicle it is now?

Steve

I'm concerned it will have an image problem of the worst kind. The media already treats Ford with a bit of contempt and the motoring journo's enjoy kicking the stuffing out of OEM's. If the Falcon is a Dearborn design I would be worried that the negitive reception from disgruntled press would flow on to the consumers. So what may be good for Ford globally might be a nail in the coffin locally.

birdman941 · 13-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Ford needs to bring the Falcon and the Pursuit to the States PRONTO.
Many enthusiasts here are pining for the car.

LeadFoot81 · 13-12-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I'm not talking about that. I mean if the current Orion platform were redesigned in Dearbon into a revised RWD platform and was used for a global car in the US, Australia, and perhaps somewhere else, would this Falcon still be considered of Australian heritage enough to still be the beloved vehicle it is now?

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

I'm concerned it will have an image problem of the worst kind. The media already treats Ford with a bit of contempt and the motoring journo's enjoy kicking the stuffing out of OEM's. If the Falcon is a Dearborn design I would be worried that the negitive reception from disgruntled press would flow on to the consumers. So what may be good for Ford globally might be a nail in the coffin locally.

If the new Deaborn based global Falcon was a kick-*** ride with all the latest gadgets and could be tweaked to suit local markets I think Ford would be onto a winner. Think about it, the new Fiesta is doing pretty well.

The media would b***h and moan about the loss of an Australian icon in terms of engineering/manufacturing, but if it's an undeniably excellent product they could only pile hate onto it for so long.

cosmo20btt · 13-12-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

If the new Deaborn based global Falcon was a kick-*** ride with all the latest gadgets and could be tweaked to suit local markets I think Ford would be onto a winner. Think about it, the new Fiesta is doing pretty well.

The media would b***h and moan about the loss of an Australian icon in terms of engineering/manufacturing, but if it's an undeniably excellent product they could only pile hate onto it for so long.

And what about the loss of ozzy jobs that would be lost to the states? Every one pines about if holden lost some jobs, well Ford jobs here are just as important. Keep Falcon Local & rear wheel drive.

Dr Smith · 13-12-2009, 11:05 PM

Just a thought, up until VE all previous Commodore platforms were Opel designed and Australian re-engineered to varying levels, and the interiors on some models were very minor variations as well. It didn't hold back Holden. I know Ford doesn't get the same degree of "Australia's own" that Holden does however that's up to the company to negate or nulify anytime the press brings it up. MB often states that Ford Oz has been around longer then it's competitors.

PS. Hopefully his success in bringing out Fiesta when in Europe gives him enough clout to convince his US bosses of his thoughts on what is best for Ford Aust in respect of the next new Falcon and this time, as when GP (RIP) was around at least an Australian is in charge here that is well respected by his US bosses and has a better knowledge of our local "tribalism".

phillyc · 14-12-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdman941

Ford needs to bring the Falcon and the Pursuit to the States PRONTO.
Many enthusiasts here are pining for the car.

Send them an email from time to time. Both the US & Ford Aus. Might help make a case. You just never know!

Chilliman · 14-12-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Just a thought, up until VE all previous Commodore platforms were Opel designed and Australian re-engineered to varying levels, and the interiors on some models were very minor variations as well. It didn't hold back Holden. I know Ford doesn't get the same degree of "Australia's own" that Holden does however that's up to the company to negate or nulify anytime the press brings it up. MB often states that Ford Oz has been around longer then it's competitors.

PS. Hopefully his success in bringing out Fiesta when in Europe gives him enough clout to convince his US bosses of his thoughts on what is best for Ford Aust in respect of the next new Falcon and this time, as when GP (RIP) was around at least an Australian is in charge here that is well respected by his US bosses and has a better knowledge of our local "tribalism".

Agree totally. No reason why an American engineered Falcon (with lots of Aussie input of course) that is still made down-under can't be a success if Ford Australia put in a concerted 'made in Australia' campaign to nullify the media assasins.

mickyyyy · 14-12-2009, 11:26 AM

RWD or nothing for falcon and must stay with the straight 6 design no matter what even if they decrease the capacity to 3.5L im still happy and im sure the engine will rev alot harder as well.

LeadFoot81 · 14-12-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

And what about the loss of ozzy jobs that would be lost to the states? Every one pines about if holden lost some jobs, well Ford jobs here are just as important. Keep Falcon Local & rear wheel drive.

I agree, I should have clarified that I meant if I had to choose between losing the Falcon altogether because it isn't feasible to be designed and built in Oz for Oz consumption and keeping the Falcon but it was a GRWD car designed in the US (with the pros and cons that would bring) I'd choose the latter.

We're living in world where globalization has well and truly taken over, how long before some big compromises have to be made?

Wally · 14-12-2009, 01:17 PM

How does the Falcon stack up against the Taurus?