Should road cars be speed limited?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by castellan

Gecko gt that is just stupid and you have missed the point.

What i am really on about is a lot of people are not or could not even be conceded competent as far as i am concerned 'sober' driving to be even in the ranks of 'some' over the 0.05 limit and it is a proven fact.
And some people are not safe to operate a vehicle even thou they do have a licence and sober.
And i am not supporting drunk drivers.
And i am not talking about the law.

I got your point, some over 0.05 are potentially a safer driver than some under 0.05. The thing is that point is irrelevant and intentional or not you are supporting drunk drivers. What is your definition of a drunk driver? Is it someone that is barely able to stand, is it someone with slurred speech or is it someone that has adverse effects to their own driving ability through the influence of alcohol?

You are the one that has missed the point, the aim with road safety is to raise the overall competence of the driving public, not lower it. That is why 0.05 was set as the bench mark, because under that level any driver is more likely to retain a reasonable level of competence. Even your legend mate who can drive better than the rest of the known universe would experience a reduction in his own driving abilities at BAC levels above 0.05, that is medical fact and has been proven in many studies. How do you propose that we assess someone's driving competence at any given BAC on a roadside test without a benchmark BAC?

[Romulus]

What scares me is emergency vehicle drivers saying 140-160km/h is fast

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

What scares me is emergency vehicle drivers saying 140-160km/h is fast

Why is that, what inspired you to say that?

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

What scares me is emergency vehicle drivers saying 140-160km/h is fast

so are you saying 160km/hr on our pathetic public roads is safe?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

so are you saying 160km/hr on our pathetic public roads is safe?

It was in the NT with the (//) speed limits, but since the introduction of 110km/h speed limits those same roads are now unsafe? How does that work? With the ever increasing improved safety features of new cars those roads become safer to travel on.

Yes I certainly advocate speeds in excess of 160km/h on certain public roads. Drive in the outback and you'll discover what I mean.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

so are you saying 160km/hr on our pathetic public roads is safe?

Not everyone lives in Newcastle.....

We have many roads in Australia that are designed for or can be adapted for high speed.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Why is that, what inspired you to say that?

Some rediculous comments I've read in the newspaper not long ago.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by flappist

Not everyone lives in Newcastle.....

We have many roads in Australia that are designed for or can be adapted for high speed.

its not just the roads, its other people on the roads that become hazards when youre traveling at those speeds.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

Some rediculous comments I've read in the newspaper not long ago.

Fair enough.

Our policy within Queensland Ambulance is the maximum speed you are allowed to go over the posted limit is by 30 km/h, according to our own code of driving practice. Any speed camera activation higher than 30 km/h over the posted limit will result in a please explain from the assistant commissioner. Any activation at higher than 40 km/h over the posted speed limit will result in a formal review by the driving standards committee and potentially referral to the police for legal action. To be honest, I support that as there are not many places in QLD that driving at over 150 km/h would be considered safe and with "due care and attention" in the glorified delivery vans that our ambulances are. The same must be said for the fire service as they are not high performance vehicles, they are trucks. The police are a little different as the vehicles they operate are different and their operational requirements are different but they have very stringent guidelines too.

Even in the NT where it is now 130 limits in some places, 170 is too fast for an ambulance (I don't think they would get that fast) but 160 would be fine and yes I have driven those roads so I know what they are like.

So in answer to your initial post, under our guidelines in a 110 zone 140 is the limit but 160 is too fast and I completely agree.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

its not just the roads, its other people on the roads that become hazards when youre traveling at those speeds.

So what you are saying is that you should only travel at 160km/h on roads where it is legal and when it is safe?

Have you ever actually driven on roads that have limits above 110 or none at all?

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what you are saying is that you should only travel at 160km/h on roads where it is legal and when it is safe?

Have you ever actually driven on roads that have limits above 110 or none at all?

i dont believe it is safe to drive on ANY PUBLIC ROADS IN THE COUNTRY, there is just too many factors you cant control, and at 160km/hr you will be in a lot of trouble if/when something goes wrong

you will not get me to agree with you on a lot of issues so please dont bother looking down your nose at me anymore, if you want to have shots at me to make yourself seem like a big man take it to pm

[paule11]

We should have roads that are safe for a decent speed limit the amount of money that has been wasted on other things by governments.

I was only talking to an old ex military guy last week about roads he told me how the American government offered after ww2 to build a six lane concrete highway Adelaide through to Dawin I think it was and our govenment Knocked it back.

Should be six lanes Cairns to Brisbane with a 160kph limit

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what you are saying is that you should only travel at 160km/h on roads where it is legal and when it is safe?

Have you ever actually driven on roads that have limits above 110 or none at all?

I've driven in Germany, 110km/h would be considered a dangerous speed (too slow) on some roads. 160-220km/h would be a far more acceptable and safer speed to travel at.

Contrary to popular believe their vehicles are very similar to our vehicles. The fundemental difference between the two is their people know how to drive, Australian's as a general do not. They are the same people who say speed limits should not be higher than 100km/h, advocate speed limiters on cars and so on.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Fair enough.

Our policy within Queensland Ambulance is the maximum speed you are allowed to go over the posted limit is by 30 km/h, according to our own code of driving practice. Any speed camera activation higher than 30 km/h over the posted limit will result in a please explain from the assistant commissioner. Any activation at higher than 40 km/h over the posted speed limit will result in a formal review by the driving standards committee and potentially referral to the police for legal action. To be honest, I support that as there are not many places in QLD that driving at over 150 km/h would be considered safe and with "due care and attention" in the glorified delivery vans that our ambulances are. The same must be said for the fire service as they are not high performance vehicles, they are trucks. The police are a little different as the vehicles they operate are different and their operational requirements are different but they have very stringent guidelines too.

Even in the NT where it is now 130 limits in some places, 170 is too fast for an ambulance (I don't think they would get that fast) but 160 would be fine and yes I have driven those roads so I know what they are like.

So in answer to your initial post, under our guidelines in a 110 zone 140 is the limit but 160 is too fast and I completely agree.

In the latter circumstance, you would definitly want a police escort and patrol bikes
clearing the road in front of you. I can't see that happening and that 30 kph limit seem
like the most practical measure.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I got your point, some over 0.05 are potentially a safer driver than some under 0.05. The thing is that point is irrelevant and intentional or not you are supporting drunk drivers. What is your definition of a drunk driver? Is it someone that is barely able to stand, is it someone with slurred speech or is it someone that has adverse effects to their own driving ability through the influence of alcohol?

You are the one that has missed the point, the aim with road safety is to raise the overall competence of the driving public, not lower it. That is why 0.05 was set as the bench mark, because under that level any driver is more likely to retain a reasonable level of competence. Even your legend mate who can drive better than the rest of the known universe would experience a reduction in his own driving abilities at BAC levels above 0.05, that is medical fact and has been proven in many studies. How do you propose that we assess someone's driving competence at any given BAC on a roadside test without a benchmark BAC?

I did not say anything about him being a legend.
Road safety! can be a joke mate. my legend friends brother was a hopeless driver in fact down right dangerous and he did not speed at all but was one of them that believed that the gov was on the right track with speed cameras save lives . but he was a hopeless driver and both myself and my legion friend totally agree on that. i would not have him drive me anywhere and i know of others who are in the same category as him. some have to look at you when they are talking to you as they drive and guess what i am in the back seat man. and they don't concentrate on where they are going and drive through stop signs for f sake. no wonder there are so many 'smashers' i would not call them all accidents.
We have people who will take there hands off the wheel if they think they may crash.
Our QLD gov is a sick joke mate when it comes to road safety and it's got f all to do with real fair dinkum road safety. and that's a fact.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

I've driven in Germany, 110km/h would be considered a dangerous speed (too slow) on some roads. 160-220km/h would be a far more acceptable and safer speed to travel at.

Contrary to popular believe their vehicles are very similar to our vehicles. The fundemental difference between the two is their people know how to drive, Australian's as a general do not. They are the same people who say speed limits should not be higher than 100km/h, advocate speed limiters on cars and so on.

If you spent time in Germany then you would know that road work and maintenance go on all the time along the Autobharns and the speed gets
reduced back to 100 kph in quite a few places.

[paule11]

Originally Posted by castellan

I did not say anything about him being a legend.
Road safety! can be a joke mate. my legend friends brother was a hopeless driver in fact down right dangerous and he did not speed at all but was one of them that believed that the gov was on the right track with speed cameras save lives . but he was a hopeless driver and both myself and my legion friend totally agree on that. i would not have him drive me anywhere and i know of others who are in the same category as him. some have to look at you when they are talking to you as they drive and guess what i am in the back seat man. and they don't concentrate on where they are going and drive through stop signs for f sake. no wonder there are so many 'smashers' i would not call them all accidents.
We have people who will take there hands off the wheel if they think they may crash.
Our QLD gov is a sick joke mate when it comes to road safety and it's got f all to do with real fair dinkum road safety. and that's a fact.

Our QLD govt is asick joke when it comes to anything all she has done is rape peoples pockets

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

Not everyone lives in Newcastle.....

We have many roads in Australia that are designed for or can be adapted for high speed.

Sad part is they don't have to be high speed, most people West of the Great Dividing Range
would be happy with 120-130 kph limit under certain circumstances. Pitty our pollies are so inept......

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

i dont believe it is safe to drive on ANY PUBLIC ROADS IN THE COUNTRY, there is just too many factors you cant control, and at 160km/hr you will be in a lot of trouble if/when something goes wrong

you will not get me to agree with you on a lot of issues so please dont bother looking down your nose at me anymore, if you want to have shots at me to make yourself seem like a big man take it to pm

I am not the one calling others a "fewl".

You do not feel safe or in control at 160km/h and so therefore no one else possibly could?

There are others who feel that 100km/h is far too fast and want to reduce the maximum speed limit to 80km/h.

Do you agree with them?

Or are you right and everyone who disagrees with you wrong and of course "fewls"......

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am not the one calling others a "fewl".

You do not feel safe or in control at 160km/h and so therefore no one else possibly could?

There are others who feel that 100km/h is far too fast and want to reduce the maximum speed limit to 80km/h.

Do you agree with them?

Or are you right and everyone who disagrees with you wrong and of course "fewls"......

i dont feel safe at 160km/hr on a public road because other drivers are inconsistant, our roads arent well maintained and things out of your control like objects on the road etc can cause you to lose control

once again, if you want to have shots at me to make yourself feel like a big man take it to pm

[billy302]

Speed Limiters don't work.
They should but people will speed no matter what.
For instance setting a vehicles speed limiter to 110KMH won't stop them from doing 110 in a 50 zone.
It is peoples attitude that needs to change. On some outback stretches of road that I know of it is very hard to stay at the speed limit. Hours of nothing no cars, trucks, houses, people, horses, sheep, cattle. Not a single thing, and the road goes on. Nothing to see except the road. Very hard to stay at the speed limit.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by paule11

We should have roads that are safe for a decent speed limit the amount of money that has been wasted on other things by governments.

I was only talking to an old ex military guy last week about roads he told me how the American government offered after ww2 to build a six lane concrete highway Adelaide through to Dawin I think it was and our govenment Knocked it back.

Should be six lanes Cairns to Brisbane with a 160kph limit

Actually it was just at the end of WW2 the US offered to build a 4 lane freeway from Sydney to Brisbane to Cairns as a thankyou for our involvement in war against Japan. It would not have been difficult as they had huge amount of road building equipment already here, would have taken 3 years and they only wanted it to be a toll road for 20 years then freehold for us after that.

It was knocked back by the federal government which was mostly controlled at the time by politicians from Victoria.
And rightly so.....a 4 lane freeway from Sydney to Cairns in 1950 would have ensured that Melbourne would have had focus taken away and become the smallest and most insignificant capital city in the country as the cities on the northern coast developed.

Just think how many speed camera manufacturers would have gone broke if Melbourne was smaller than Hobart....

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

i dont feel safe at 160km/hr on a public road because other driver are inconsistant, our roads arent well maintained and things out of your control like objects on the road etc can cause you to lose control

once again, if you want to have shots at me to make yourself feel like a big man take it to pm

Mate I agree with you & also Gecko GT in most things that you guys have said while I just shake my head at some others comments in this thread

It is very clear to me that Intelligence from many in this Forum is totally lacking & it seems to be mainly the younger members though not in all cases.

I have owned & driven many powerful & fast vehicles in the past 35 years or so & can tell you it is not safe to be doing 160 or 200 when you have other drivers around who as has been said do silly things like not looking in mirrors before deciding to pull into right lane as just 1 example & I have had this happen while doing 200 kmh in that right lane & know just what an oh crap moment it is

That is just 1 example & I could put up many more reasons why it is NOT safe to drive at highspeed while the limits are low.

Nor would it be safe if the limits were open as again the diff between the fastest & the slowest or the best or the worst drivers is way to great.

If we were all gun drivers with open limits with cars limited to 200 or so maybe but that will never be the case.

We are not Germany, roads are different, people are different & we have not lived with open limits on good raods for decades either.

Also for anybody to say driving with even 2 schooners means your just as safe as a sober person is just nuts & foolish.

I am for speed limiting vehicles to say 160 kmh & for saying no alcholol at all when your driving

I am also for closing nightclubs early & rasing the legal drinking age to 21

Why you ask, well as they would help with many issues such as injuries or deaths from the above things, see not so hard to work out & call me a wowser if you like but when some of you are older & have seen what I have you may agree.

Remember when I was 20 I used to get drunk every Fri & Sat night, stay out till the sun came up, drive while drinking & speed & I consider myself a fool now for doing all of it.

So I dont expect young people to understand as I would not have when younger either.

Oh & please dont say well you did it so is good enough for me lol

I did it yes but only with age & wisdom now can I say it was wrong & dangerous.

And anybody who attacks Gecko on road safety etc should think twice as who would know better than him on what nasty things can happen with speed or alcholol

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Here's an anecdotal story ( the type that I detest so much but will use as I have not the patience nor calmness of temperment to quantify by taking a proper survey).
I have had a 5 way,traffic lighted intersection built right outside my front door (spare you the details and angst around that), but where there was once a sedate tree lined roundabout ,there are now five christmas trees,funnelling up to 10 lanes of traffic into 5 everytime the lights turn green.
I can tell everyone here with no fear of retribution that there are no morons driving mums Prius that see this chage of light as an invitation to post a PB before 2 lanes merge into 1 100m up the road. I can also safely say it's not some old pants ****in' geriatric either. You know who it inevitably is?? surprise surprise ..it's the "performance car enthusiast". You name it, any pedigree of gt (or otherwise) falcon, fpv's, hsv's, wrexies, gtr's, brand affiliation is not an issue. Everytime I hear the burn out and screaming of tortured engines racing away from the lights, my mind drifts to implants,(or as a close substitute,electric collars), the type that you would put on a testosterone fuelled ,aggresive dog! Everytime the hormones take over, push the button!! I take my dog(a highly charged,intact, staffordshire) to the park(read track) to let him unwind. If he carried on in public(read public roads) like he does there, I would have to freakin shoot him!!!
I have a V8, have driven them before as well, heck, I even owned an XT GT, but lets ask the question,"why is it that so many "performance car enthusiasts" are the ones we keep reading about in these and similar threads??

Fair call. I see the same thing all the time, as do many others here I am sure.
Here is a question for you. What if the nearest park ( read track) to take your intact Staffy ( read performance car) was 100klm, or 1000klm away? Would you still own a dog? As an animal lover I am sure you would. Just that you would have to let him have his fun a little more discreetly!

While car entuisiasts should keep this kind of thing off the roads, there are parts of Aus where tracks to unleash the beast simply don't exist. Qld with its vast distances is a pretty good example of this. Want to run your performance car/sportsbike around a track? Great in Brissy or the Sunny/Gold coasts. Kinda hard in Cairns, Townsville, Mackay though, as you are at 12-20 hours drive from a track where track days are held.

Now look at Vic and it is the opposite. This state is literally littered with tracks in close proximity. Live in Melbourne and you have access to 4 or 5 within a 200klm radiu.s 99% of the population probably lives within 3 hours of a track, so there really is no excuse to let out some steam in the right place, providing that access is available via a track day company, etc. All that needs to be done here is ensure that the penalties for anti social behaviour are strict enough to encourage everyone to go to a track day instead.

Part of the solution ( one of many that need to be implemented) may just be to providing more parks for you to walk your dog in and let him have a little freedom. Its only a small part of the solution, but one that should be considered. After all, we build skate parks in every town to keep kids amused so that they don't indulge in anti social behaviour. What are we doing for the revheads as a society?

[AussieAV]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

I've driven in Germany, 110km/h would be considered a dangerous speed (too slow) on some roads. 160-220km/h would be a far more acceptable and safer speed to travel at.

Contrary to popular believe their vehicles are very similar to our vehicles. The fundemental difference between the two is their people know how to drive, Australian's as a general do not. They are the same people who say speed limits should not be higher than 100km/h, advocate speed limiters on cars and so on.

To be fair, the other difference is that the German Government spend a lot more or road quality and maintenance. And they can justify it much easier too.

Never been there, but I'm assuming most of the high speed roads (autobahns) would be in the former West Germany. Now their land area was not much bigger than Victoria, but with 12-15 times the population of Victoria, they probably have 12-15 times the budget to spend on those roads to make it safe to travel at speed.

Further to that, remember that by Australian standards, Victoria is densely populated, so its even worse everywhere else.

Some of our biggest issues are the vast distances we have to deal with, and how spread out our population is.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by castellan

I did not say anything about him being a legend.
Road safety! can be a joke mate. my legend friends brother was a hopeless driver in fact down right dangerous and he did not speed at all but was one of them that believed that the gov was on the right track with speed cameras save lives . but he was a hopeless driver and both myself and my legion friend totally agree on that. i would not have him drive me anywhere and i know of others who are in the same category as him. some have to look at you when they are talking to you as they drive and guess what i am in the back seat man. and they don't concentrate on where they are going and drive through stop signs for f sake. no wonder there are so many 'smashers' i would not call them all accidents.
We have people who will take there hands off the wheel if they think they may crash.
Our QLD gov is a sick joke mate when it comes to road safety and it's got f all to do with real fair dinkum road safety. and that's a fact.

So, in your post you not only refused to answer some simple questions that I put to you, but you completely go off the "off topic" topic. You sit here and criticise the government, the police and the safety councils yet I have not seen a solid suggestion from you in how to make improvements. It is easy to complain, it is harder to solve problems.

I find it most amusing that it is you that uses the "flog dead horse" symbol yet it is you that keeps bringing it up.

No point replying to this unless you answer the questions I put to you. I will not reply without those answers as there is no point.

Just in case you forgot, here are the questions.

What is your definition of a drunk driver? Is it someone that is barely able to stand, is it someone with slurred speech or is it someone that has adverse effects to their own driving ability through the influence of alcohol?

How do you propose that we assess someone's driving competence at any given BAC on a roadside test without a benchmark BAC?

On a different note, regarding the speed of emergency vehicles.

In the latter circumstance, you would definitly want a police escort and patrol bikes
clearing the road in front of you.

Experience over the years has shown that this is too hard to coordinate and by the time you have it up and running, we could have transported quicker without the escort. Also we have found the presence of multiple emergency vehicles confuses the public and leads to unsafe situations. It is quicker and safer to look after everything by ourself and so we no longer use police escorts.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by billy302

On some outback stretches of road that I know of it is very hard to stay at the speed limit.

not just outback either. the new Forrest Hwy in WA linking Perth with Bunbury was opened last year. its all a double lane freeway/highway roughly 180km long and except for the last 60km or so before Bunbury has enormous verges and 100kmh / 110kmh speed limits.
The media reported that in the first 7 days after it opened, speed cameras monitored 31,596 cars and 8367 were caught travelling over the speed limit.
When nearly 30% of drivers are caught exceeding the limit it suggests to me that the limit is wrong. if it wasn't for cruise control I'd expect that figure to be much higher.
the speed alert feature is available on a lot of cars these days but with speed limits changing every 50m it's a pain to use around town - ok on the highway. GPS controlled speed alert might be handy instead...

[Fev]

Siiick of the nannies! Never one to solve a problem, just to bandage it up :(

This is at no one in particular, just the majority of the thread in general.

[302 XC]

Wow slightly entertaining

I live around 150-200 Ks west of brissie
I now stick bang on the limit on the roads out here,
not really for the speeding tickets or the roads
BUT
Mainly for all the IDIOTS that cant read the white lines that are painted on the roads
Im over comin around left or right hand blind corners and seeing IDIOTS on my side of the road
I cant see around the corner so how can you
Double white lines dont mean go for it
1 solid line and a broken line indicate things as well

Its not the roads (well a tad,drive to the conditions)
Its not the cars (unless they are unsafe)
Its the IDIOT drivers

On the 0.05 thing its been prooven a persons frame size will have a different effect on how alcohol effects them
So what do we have a smallish person can be one level and largish person can be another
Gotta have a bench mark somewhere

[zdcol71]

"I find it most amusing that it is you that uses the "flog dead horse" symbol yet it is you that keeps bringing it up".

Ah.... so that's what it is.