Dick Johnson's Plan to save the Falcon

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by sbutler

Its the goverment that has bought this on. They dropped the tarrif on imported cars, hence the place is crawling Jeeps, Toyotas, Nissans, & god knows how many sorts of Korerian cars now.
Falcon is a world class car & would sell in many other countrys.
The yank cops have just dropped the long serving crown vic, & is importing Bomadoors from here for HWP use.
Just imagine how they'd like an XR6T for HWP use???
Ford Aust need to sell our product to other places. You cant say an G6Et, GT, F6 is not on par with other cars from other parts of the world???
In fact we stack up very well. The now defunked F6X beat all commers,[X5 bmw, Volvo, Range Rover, etc] in a test a couple of years ago. Value for money Im sure the rest of the Falcon range would do the same

Spoton there... Only problem is getting it out of this country at a reasonable cost!!

I would be happy even if the built the Falcon somewhere else and kept design / testing here... Wouldn't phase me asside from the face that aussies would be losing their jobs, that worries me.

[olds]

Dick Johnson's Plan to be successful in motor sport - "Win races"

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am fairly confident that all of those who are pushing the "export to USA" line have one thing in common.....they have never actually been to USA.

Yanks are very different people to us and their expectations, interpretations and requirements have very little to do with ours.

I agree. Every country has different tastes, but Toyota's are sold in various countries and everyone buys them, so there is always a market share if ADVERTISED correctly.

Also I think the AU government giving money to Ford and Holden as a prop measure is ridiculous. Now if they made all their government agencies buy only Aussie built cars, then our production and sales would tick along perfectly.

[351capri]

ford marketing have seriously dropped the ball over the past few years, the designers,engineers and the asembly crews have delivered the best ever aussie built fords, but the general public wouldnt have a clue due to a serious lack of promotion, fair dinkum, if holden made the exact same car it would have been heralded as the second coming ffs!!!!

[351capri]

Originally Posted by sbutler

Its the goverment that has bought this on. They dropped the tarrif on imported cars, hence the place is crawling Jeeps, Toyotas, Nissans, & god knows how many sorts of Korerian cars now.
Falcon is a world class car & would sell in many other countrys.
The yank cops have just dropped the long serving crown vic, & is importing Bomadoors from here for HWP use.
Just imagine how they'd like an XR6T for HWP use???
Ford Aust need to sell our product to other places. You cant say an G6Et, GT, F6 is not on par with other cars from other parts of the world???
In fact we stack up very well. The now defunked F6X beat all commers,[X5 bmw, Volvo, Range Rover, etc] in a test a couple of years ago. Value for money Im sure the rest of the Falcon range would do the same

dont forget the rise of vw, the return of citroen, renault, peugot, new players like skoda, great wall ,cherry etc, all these have an effect on sales of aussie builts.

[351capri]

holden already showing shmick adds for the new volt at the cinemas tonite. COMING SOON THEY SAY!!!!! ford spent marketing money on the $2 grand prix short film, did it ever get any airplay anywhere apart from youtube and this forum? anyone, bueler? no! what a waste! and that was when lpg was near 70 cents a litre. can get it for 52.9 now!!! idiots!!!

[csv8]

300C ads on tv...this car is going to hurt Ford and Holden sales. Much better value than the Calais or G6E..

[2011G6E]

I'm surprised they're hammering the Volt advertising so much...I mean, its a clever car (but still with a lot of restrictions and not for everybody, which is a problem in a country like this with the distances we travel), but rather I notice you don't see the same sort of adverts for the Toyota Prius or the rediculous Nissan Leaf and the like.

This is because of the "It costs how much??!!!" shock factor with the public...

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by olds

Dick Johnson's Plan to be successful in motor sport - "Win races"

Beat Holdens?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by csv8

300C ads on tv...this car is going to hurt Ford and Holden sales. Much better value than the Calais or G6E..

Most people still don't like the look of them.. As for G6E / Calais no one buys them anymore, most of the guys who use to get them get family friendly SUV's now, like the Territory Titanium.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by napoleon

I agree. Every country has different tastes, but Toyota's are sold in various countries and everyone buys them, so there is always a market share if ADVERTISED correctly.

sure, toyotas are sold there, but the difference is, the toyota that are sold there are not shipped there from australia.

the dollar value and the cost of our cars means they will never be profitable in the US, even if they did buy them.

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Most people still don't like the look of them..

yep, see posts earlier in the thread regarding different tastes between yanks and aussies. for many, the 300c is still very american and 'big' looking. i'd be very surprised if it caused any pain for ford and holden.

[prydey]

as for the VOLT, sure, its going to have a few gizmo's and gadgets inside, but $60k+?? seriously?

i could buy a focus, and have enough petrol/diesel money left over for decades worth of juice!!

these cars will only appeal to one type of person. those who think they will actually make some sort of difference, even though most of our power is still from coal.

[ebxr8240]

Notice the people that bought a Priuse NEVER bought another one second time around...

Some high profile people have bought them to show how enviro conscious they are.. The car was possibly bought for the daughter or wife to drive..
To get mail at front gate, bottle shop etc ???

Take it easy on D.J he trusted his sponsers and they went broke..
Taking 90% of his money with them...
While this was going on he won a touring championship..

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

While this was going on he won a touring championship..

when . . . .

ross palmer stayed on for 2 years after the last "palmer" title
shell stayed on long after their last title with the team
and jim beam are still with the team

so when did the sponsor go broke while he won a title??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

as for the VOLT, sure, its going to have a few gizmo's and gadgets inside, but $60k+?? seriously?

i could buy a focus, and have enough petrol/diesel money left over for decades worth of juice!!

these cars will only appeal to one type of person. those who think they will actually make some sort of difference, even though most of our power is still from coal.

This, the only reason Volt makes sense in the USA is because of government incentives
reducing the cost there to around $30,000 and then on top of that, GM offers great leasing plans.

Seriously, spending $60,000 to avoid paying a few bucks a week in fuel?

You could buy two diesel Cruzes, give one away and still feel like you're in front of buying a Volt..

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Take it easy on D.J he trusted his sponsers and they went broke..
Taking 90% of his money with them...

Was that before or after FoA put one of their staff in charge of the $$$ Ford and Shell were giving him???

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

when . . . .

ross palmer stayed on for 2 years after the last "palmer" title
shell stayed on long after their last title with the team
and jim beam are still with the team

so when did the sponsor go broke while he won a title??

Wespoint went broke and has finance issues since..

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Wespoint went broke and has finance issues since..

yes, but you suggested that while it was going on he won an atccc
after westpoint, charlie came in and helped save the team so by 2010, the westpoint saga shouldn't have been a lingering problem

[ebxr8240]

Yea still issues and he won all the same..
Yes Wespoint was before that ..
Was it help or a take over ???
Hard to win while all this is going on..
What I'm saying he hasn't had it easy !!!

[gtxb67]

in all seriousness, at the risk of upsetting his fans, he would cry and moan and complain about something no matter what was happening
he was much better funded than virtually all of the teams out there from bathurst 1980 and yet he is still considered a poor lil ol battler

and from what i have read of the article i don't understand his point. holden are selling many more commode dores than ford are selling falcons in australia - that is the problem
exporting (to america especially) is a short term fix to special problems within the organisation - ie: having committed to too many cars being built, so having built them, they then offload them to other countries at a loss, to keep the parent company happy. they may officially get paid for them, but the parent company takes what they want from the profits anyway

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

when . . . .

ross palmer stayed on for 2 years after the last "palmer" title
shell stayed on long after their last title with the team
and jim beam are still with the team

so when did the sponsor go broke while he won a title??

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Wespoint went broke and has finance issues since..

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Was that before or after FoA put one of their staff in charge of the $$$ Ford and Shell were giving him???

More than happy to be corrected but I believe FoA and Shell were concerned that DJ had run out of cash to buy engines for the Palmer Falcons so they "seconded" an accountant to run the finance side of the operation. L o n g before the 2008 problems.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

More than happy to be corrected but I believe FoA and Shell were concerned that DJ had run out of cash to buy engines for the Palmer Falcons so they "seconded" an accountant to run the finance side of the operation. L o n g before the 2008 problems.

that is the first i have heard of it, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility. it is obvious that a mechanic/driver is generally not an accountant

however, i thought the first dollars that he received from ford australia was in 93 with the v8 series. to my knowledge, when money is concerned, he was a privateer up until the v8 days. until the start of 87, shell was just a minor sponsor, so if they appointed an accountant, then it was probably to get the house in order so their naming rights sponsorship money was spent correctly

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This, the only reason Volt makes sense in the USA is because of government incentives
reducing the cost there to around $30,000 and then on top of that, GM offers great leasing plans.

Seriously, spending $60,000 to avoid paying a few bucks a week in fuel?

You could buy two diesel Cruzes, give one away and still feel like you're in front of buying a Volt..

But buying a car like the Volt isn't a pragmatic decision. The people who buy cars like this are buying based on what the car stands for, and how it makes them feel.

Exactly like the buyers of HSV's, FPV's, AMG's etc etc - buying with the heart not the head., but from the opposite angle.

Good luck to the Volt buyers - hopefully there are enough of them to bring the cars economies of scale into reality and the price down for the benefit of every one else who needs a car to commute.

[2011G6E]

Given the kilometers we're racking up on the G6E, we're considering selling it in the next six months or so when it's two years old (privately, you get bugger all as a trade in on a Falcon or Commodore), and we won't be looking at Ford again. Well...possibly if we could squeeze a good enough deal on a Territory diesel...but something more along the lines of a twin cab 4x4 like a VW Amarok might be the go...

And that's Fords problem...I really don't believe there's much of a thing called "model loyalty" anymore. Years ago, people used to buy Kingswood after Kingswood, Falcon after Falcon, but now there's so many great alternative choices around, people have many interesting vehicles to look at instead.

Raising tariffs to protect the Falcon here won't do anything but try and pretend the real world doesn't exist and Australian drivers don't deserve access to modern affordable cars from overseas makers.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

that is the first i have heard of it, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility. it is obvious that a mechanic/driver is generally not an accountant

however, i thought the first dollars that he received from ford australia was in 93 with the v8 series. to my knowledge, when money is concerned, he was a privateer up until the v8 days. until the start of 87, shell was just a minor sponsor, so if they appointed an accountant, then it was probably to get the house in order so their naming rights sponsorship money was spent correctly

I can't remember the exact details but I know it was in the press at the time. I seem to remember $5m being mentioned. I'm guessing that's what the whole operation cost to run? For a along time FoA "supported" but did not officially "sponsor" teams, sometimes via Ford Credit. Just checked Wikipedia (it must be right) and it says DJR were sponsored by Shell > 35 years ago so that makes pre-1977. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Johnson_Racing.
DJ is just one of many sportsman who need an accountant to run their business, and a manager to manage it. Skaife, Seton, Agostini. It was once said about Skaife that when managing and driving, he had to make a decision between being aggressive on the track and managing the books.

[GTENVY]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Why is it that 10 years ago, back in 2002, the BA Falcon was plastered all over the news. Media release shots were on the 6'o clock news. Everyone was talking about it. Did the media feel sudden pity for the Falcon after all those years of being the underdog? Did Ford hire a good marketing team? Or was the BA such a good car for its time that it got everybody talking? I don't think even the VE commodore with its billion dollar blimp had as much exposure as the BA falcon did. Before the end of 2002, I remember many shiney new BA's popping up all over the streets. The same couldn't be said of the FG Falcon throughout '08.

Look who was in charge back then and that's your answer.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I can't remember the exact details but I know it was in the press at the time. I seem to remember $5m being mentioned. I'm guessing that's what the whole operation cost to run? For a along time FoA "supported" but did not officially "sponsor" teams, sometimes via Ford Credit. Just checked Wikipedia (it must be right) and it says DJR were sponsored by Shell > 35 years ago so that makes pre-1977. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Johnson_Racing.
DJ is just one of many sportsman who need an accountant to run their business, and a manager to manage it. Skaife, Seton, Agostini. It was once said about Skaife that when managing and driving, he had to make a decision between being aggressive on the track and managing the books.

now you mention it i think johnson did have ford credit on board with the coupe. just like moff had dbd needham with the sierra in 87 and then seton received some extra funding through ford credit too
however, to my knowledge, the official ford money first went to johnson and seton in 93. i believe it was the first of the official money since moff had some support in 78

i think johnson did have shell during the xc days, but for 1980 and i think 81, he used valvoline xld


having had nothing to do with running race teams, i would think $5,000,000 would have been a little over the top in 84. it would have been expensive but considering how many cars were blank or sponsored by the driver's business in the early 80's, i cannot see it needing $5 million dollars to run a team

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Raising tariffs to protect the Falcon here won't do anything but try and pretend the real world doesn't exist and Australian drivers don't deserve access to modern affordable cars from overseas makers.

this may be true to an extent, but have a look at how many makes and models are in australia. i read somewhere that we have more makes and models here than in the US.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Raising tariffs to protect the Falcon here won't do anything but try and pretend the real world doesn't exist and Australian drivers don't deserve access to modern affordable cars from overseas makers.

i see you point and do not disagree - however, if we lose our manufacturing we end up like the philippines and other asian countries
i would much rather be forced into buying a second rate car from australia, than be forced into 2nd and 3rd rate public transport like virtually everyone in the philippines has to

to put it simply, i would rather have a job, a decent roof over my head, food on my table and a car than either none or a fraction of those things

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

however, to my knowledge, the official ford money first went to johnson and seton in 93. i believe it was the first of the official money since moff had some support in 78

In 1995 Seton lost PJ sponsorship and Ford Credit came on board. Seton was still a one car team then - did the lot himself.
DJ was still wearing Shell/FAI colours in 1994 when he won with John Bowe so if it was official Ford weren't advertsing it as such.

And, hey, Ford advertised when Seton won the ATCC!