How many Kids have to DIE before the Government pulls their finger out????

[Itsme]

No matter what amount of discipline, education you give to kids (Kids will be Kids) and that is the sad truth......has been and always will be.
And it could be child from a good upbringing to a street kid. (Fact)

This can be easily one of your children.

They paid the ultimate price with their lives "RIP"

[BENT_8]

Lets not confuse the situation here, no ones saying a 12 year old doesnt understand right from wrong, the key word in this situation is consequence.

There is little doubt that a 12 year old understands the concept of stealing a car, they know it is illegal, it isnt some random brain snap, it is an action brought about through lack of fearing consequence.

This is why i believe it stems from upbringing.

Its about action and reaction, if a child goes through its life screwing up and never gets shown the the right way, they have no understanding of consequence.
If a child screws up and gets brought back into line they realise that they cant get away with whatever they like.

The fact that these kids had already made themselves aware to authorities via previous wrong doings or a lack of guidance at home etc, just underlines that todays soft approach is not making the desired impact on troubled kids.

We will always have young people dying in accidents, we cant hover over them all the time, but what we can do as parents is give them structure, guidance and an awareness that negative actions will not be tolerated.

This thread is 5 pages long, yet none of the posts contain the answer.
Truth is, there is no right or wrong answer to it.
All we can do as a motoring forum is take note of these incidents and use them to help guide our children in the best way we know, truth is we are fortunate that when these things happen we have a medium which brings it home and gives us an avenue to discuss it.
It wont help these youngens, but it may just highlight the concern and help one of our own.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by JC

Just on the point of hitting as discipline

I apply strict discipline to my own child, but it does not ever include smacking her. I don't believe my decision will create a problem for society. My daughter is taught her actions have consequence both good and bad. My wife and I are as consistent as possible. I would not impose my choices for child rearing on anyone else.

Originally Posted by JC

- most of us are talking about an open handed smack, perhaps a wooden spoon, and maybe even a very few are talking about a belt (though the latter are viewed as weapons and you can be charged). We are not talking about beating a child with fists and the like - that is child abuse and is not discipline.

Hmm, you can't be sure your interpretation is universal, it's not like there is an Australian standard for hitting children. We are talking about corporal punishment, if it does not hurt the child it is not a deterrent. So the smack has to be hard enough to get their attention, but not so hard lasting physical damage is done.

I'm well aware of the intent of smacking; it is practiced by some extended family, friends and neighbours. I was smack as a child, wooden spoon, thongs, belts etc. In my experience it's not about which form of discipline is used, just that there is constant, consistent discipline with consequences.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by 79raven

Hang on a sec mate, you telling me you never made a mistake? Even something minor that you have done or will do can have an adverse effect. Who's to say this kid could not have came up with the cure for Cancer in a few years? Its easy to say goodbye to bad seeds, but if it was your kid who died would you have the same outlook? If I turn my back on my 2 year old for a minute and she puts something in a power point, does that mean she had no positive future and deserves to die? People make mistakes, its only the depth that varies.

There's too many people on this planet already. Do we really need a cure for cancer so we can all linger on uselessly for another few decades or so?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by irish2

There's too many people on this planet already. Do we really need a cure for cancer so we can all linger on uselessly for another few decades or so?

Congratulations having possibly the most inane post in this thread yet!

[graham7773]

Re they have a home where they can express themselves, usually with foul language,

disagree, constantly. Sometimes it's like arguing with a post.

have an opinion which will always be right, regardless of evidence to the contrary

learn nothing but how to use social media and a bong.

2 of my kids are in there early 40's and 3 are in their 30's. 2 own their own homes. The third is working toward that. Most of my grandkids are doing well. When they (my kids) lived at home, there was no going out at night unless it was a very special occasion and I would provide transport to and from the venue. There was mild corporal punishment for doing wrong and rewards for doing good. Governments and schools have taken the responsibility for parenting discipline away from parents and done a crud job of doing it themselves so young people think the world is their oyster and they have a God given right to do what is good/exciting to them. IMO parents should take back the responsibility for their kids instead of leaving it in the hands of a comittee, said comittees being as usefull as tits on a bull...I have 15 grandkids and most of them are doing well also. Seems my kids may have learned some thing from me. Most of the g/k's are late teens, early 20's, have decent jobs and looking good.

[bingoTE50]

Originally Posted by irish2

There's too many people on this planet already. Do we really need a cure for cancer so we can all linger on uselessly for another few decades or so?

Let us hope you embrace it wholeheartedly then.

[bingoTE50]

I am very surprised at the lack of compassion shown in this thread for the loss of life , I can't believe because of a stolen car it is the defining element . But yet , if it was a legitimate accident ,there would be a long list of condolences to those involved.
Instead we have ,they stole it , karma .
Odd to me.

[graham7773]

I think there is an element of compassion for life in this thread but not for the stupidity that causes loss of life.

[LTDHO]

To the kids that think they can steel cars, pack them full of mates and drive as dangerously as you like. Good riddance. Just don't take those who have a goal in life with you.

I'm not a parent, choose not to be, so I can hardly give comment on how poorly kids are bought up today. All I know is kids care about themselves only and want everything for nothing.

Expect things to get worse before it gets better.

[XR6_661]

Instead of teaching kids in schools about driving, why don't they start teaching common sense instead?

Far more practical uses

[79raven]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

Let us hope you embrace it wholeheartedly then.

Irish is right though. The worlds way overpopulated. The world is stretched to the limit just covering the population we have now, not to mention the added people that get spat out every day. Every death makes way for life, havent you watched the Lion King?
Even though your right Irish, not the best time to put that one in my friend.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by irish2

There's too many people on this planet already. Do we really need a cure for cancer so we can all linger on uselessly for another few decades or so?

That is a disgraceful post!

I sat in a hospital day surgery this morning chatting with a decent gentleman prior to us both getting a colonoscopy.
I was cleared, he walked out a shattered man, Cancer isnt something to make light of.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by irish2

There's too many people on this planet already. Do we really need a cure for cancer so we can all linger on uselessly for another few decades or so?

Off topic.....
Yes we do, our young and old can get cancer and who says you linger for decades....still means you can have a quality life with loved ones.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This is why i believe it stems from upbringing.

Fairfax understands three of the teenagers in the crash had been in and out of state government care and the juvenile justice system.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/th...#ixzz2BisQzv3b

and I just found this...
THE mother of a teenager killed in a triple fatality claims the Victorian Department of Human Services abandoned her family weeks ago, and is to blame for the tragedy.

[Franco Cozzo]

What they used to do at my school was all the trouble making rat bags they had the local copper come in, and after school they would work on cars together and teach them new things.

And it worked quite well.

But why only for the rat bags?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Fairfax understands three of the teenagers in the crash had been in and out of state government care and the juvenile justice system.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/th...#ixzz2BisQzv3b

and I just found this...
THE mother of a teenager killed in a triple fatality claims the Victorian Department of Human Services abandoned her family weeks ago, and is to blame for the tragedy.

Emotions can run deep, bit early to comment until the facts are known and the truth will come out in the coroners inquest.

[BHDOGS]

Yup she can't look after her kids it's the governments faults there should be 24 hour child officers patrolling every ****** family now whose up for the big lookin after every useless fat lazy slob ******* kids tax?

[KIWI-1]

Even though emotions are running deep, I'm sure you'd agree it doesn't say much for our 'welfare' system for this to happen to kids?

[Auslandau]

Lots of assumptions, some silly comments , mixed in with some more sane ones ..... Really is a bad title to the thread ..... no one knows who is to blame, now, or possibly for ever ...... but as most have had their say, some kids are dead and some families will grieve for their kids. A death penalty should not be the punishment for stupidity as terrible as things are. Feel for the family and the friends. Will have some terrible years to come.

No parent should see their kids die, no matter what the circumstances. Personally do not see it as a sign of the times as its something that has happened since day dot and will be another similar story again no doubt.

Education, government intervention, blaming others than themselves, heavier fines, heavier penalties. Who knows ...... govco doesn't have an idea and really I don't think we do either.

Can we just leave it at that?