Why does buying cars in 2021 still suck?

[BENT_8]

The one I like is dealers who use redbook to value your asset but overlook redbook when valuing their asset.

The old, your 'insert car here' only books for this much.
Ok, what does redbook say about yours then, and would you kindly show me.

[FTE217]

Its no wonder Redbook always got quoted by most, for Glass's Dealers Guide was the far more crediable print form in its time vs Redbook and obviously pricing more respectable to market.

[Poetic Justice]

I'm not sure I've ever used redbook as a guide for myself but it's always a fun back and forth with a customer when they say "but redbook says my car is worth X" and I tell them to go ask if redbook can buy it off them...

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by MrEL

Not seeing how marking a vehicle up to sell it makes a dealer a scumbag.

When its artificially inflating the market?
I suppose you thought the dealers who were whacking another $30-40k onto the RRP of a new FPV or HSV just because they could are just sensible businessmen?
What about the dealers over in the US putting the same mark up on new broncos just because they've bought up stock of first edition bronco's and theyve been made hard to find?
I suppose you think the covid tax thats plaguing the car market atm is a hoax?

Originally Posted by MrEL

They paid $35k. By the time it was transported back , detailed , NSW rego done etc they have another $6k in it sitting on the lot.
So it now owes them $41k. $14k profit at the moment.

Car came from another dealer and was advertised for retail sale, so its reasonable to expect costs to be minimal, rego, transport and 20 minutes for the yard lackey to give it a bath. Nowhere near $6k

Originally Posted by MrEL

BUT when that profit comes in tax needs to come out of it. There's $5k gone.

It was bought from another dealer, so I'd say they'd be able to claim the tax they paid when they purchased it.... couple of thousand to be made there.

Originally Posted by MrEL

Insurance , paying for staff , cost of the dealership etc etc. If it sits for a month it owes another $1k to the dealer.

If they want to reduce the cost of having it on the lot, asking way over market value wont help their cause. No sympathy.

Originally Posted by MrEL

And we haven't discussed the warranty yet.

35 year old vehicle.... there is no stat warranty requirement, and if a dealer is wants to take the punt and offer a warranty a 35 year old car free to the customer they deserve what they get. Otherwise any warranty policy can be sold to the customer, and shouldnt cost the dealer a cent. Either way, no sympathy or no cost to the dealer.

Ultimately though, theres no way in hell its worth $60k, $45 on a good day, but not 60.

I cant help but wonder what the first dealer paid for it.....

[FTE217]

In saying all and that in the end its up to the consumer.
I agree its inflated to the max BUT it comes down to any consumer knowledge when your buying right.
Who's goes buying anything without research, say from $5k up.

What about the private sellers asking absorbanate covid pricing figures of our Falcons ?
Do we lable these jokers also as rip off merchants as well ?
How many of them lie as well, even pre covid.
Arn't they bleeding out a top figure as much as poss like a Dealership.

[PG2]

Gentlemen and Ladies.

We all have to make a living. There are good and bad in every industry. Yep, some industries have more bad than good.

Let's not fell into the trap of bagging what others do to put a roof over their (and family's) head and put food on the table.

At least these people are working for a living and not sitting back taking Government handouts that they may not really be entitled to at the end of the day. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those of you are unemployed due to circumstanced that are no fault of your own.

[Tassie f100]

The thing that Interceptor and others are overlooking is the fact that virtually everyone whether they are in business or paid employee is trying to get as much pay/ profit that they can.At the end of the day the price/ pay is determined by the market. If Interceptor is really worth about $40k per year,but can screww his boss for $80k is he a thieving scumbag like the dealer wanting a $30k mark up on a used truck

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I'm not sure I've ever used redbook as a guide for myself but it's always a fun back and forth with a customer when they say "but redbook says my car is worth X" and I tell them to go ask if redbook can buy it off them...

I'd go with something like..
Ok, a yard up the road has offered to buy my car outright for a little more than Redbook values it at, you can match it and I'll buy your car or I'll take it back to them, then they can make the mark up and profit and I'll come back and buy yours with it, how much you want for it now its a straight purchase, no trade.
And you just did yourself out of the future profit from my trade in.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I'm not sure I've ever used redbook as a guide for myself but it's always a fun back and forth with a customer when they say "but redbook says my car is worth X" and I tell them to go ask if redbook can buy it off them...

out of interest, how do you come up with your guide?

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Sorry slowsnake what a load of bollocks opening a business to provide a service only, nah mate its to do both and more depending growth, provide a service, employ and make some money hopefully after all your running costs, provide a even better service employ more make more depending how much you put back into your business at the same time, do better you've worked your butt off and created a good working environment to get there, turn it up.

Business is not about making more money than the next guy, it's about providing a better service than the next guy, at a better price than the next guy, and showing a profit at the end of the financial year?

Cheers Shonky Charlie

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

The thing that Interceptor and others are overlooking is the fact that virtually everyone whether they are in business or paid employee is trying to get as much pay/ profit that they can.At the end of the day the price/ pay is determined by the market. If Interceptor is really worth about $40k per year,but can screww his boss for $80k is he a thieving scumbag like the dealer wanting a $30k mark up on a used truck

Never in my World, maybe in yours!


Cheers Honest John

[Franco Cozzo]

Poetic Justice - would you prefer commission opportunities and a lower base rate, or say if your base rate was raised say $20K+ PA but no commission, would that change how you do business?

Cheers Pious Franco

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Business is not about making more money than the next guy, it's about providing a better service than the next guy, at a better price than the next guy, and showing a profit at the end of the financial year?

Cheers Shonky Charlie

I don't think you comprehend my post well but alas, see it your way

[Interceptor]

My problem is all it takes is for one seller to take advantage of a stupid situation to get one cashed up idiot to pay well over the odds for something and it sets a precedent.

We all thought Darryl Mattingley was nuts when he paid $683k for a Phase 3 all those years ago....

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by FTE217

I don't think you comprehend my post well but alas, see it your way

Always do!...have no choice with these eyeballs attached into bony sockets in my skull, lol, that's a joke by the way!

This is a very Alpha male type of place/forum and you have to stick to your own beliefs, been like this for 68+ years now and can't change, but I was brought up by a very decent honest man, it rubbed off


Cheers Billy.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I bet those that “always get a discount”don’t stand and try to bargain with the checkout person at the supermarket or bottleshop.seems it is alright to bargain a $10-40k car down every 4-5 years,but not a $10-15k grocery bill every year

That's a real strange comparison?
You don't eat your car and maybe end up with an appreciating asset, if you are a careful owner!

But a grocery bill?...really, that's a basic staple, a cars not absolutely necessary!
You can get by without a car, but you can't get by without your mum, oops your food!


Cheers Billy

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Poetic Justice - would you prefer commission opportunities and a lower base rate, or say if your base rate was raised say $20K+ PA but no commission, would that change how you do business?

Cheers Pious Franco

So long as there is a gap between cost price and retail price I don't think it honestly matters what the salesperson gets paid as their superiors will be expecting to maximise each transaction.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

out of interest, how do you come up with your guide?

Current market - look at what is currently for sale based on KMS and age.

Autogate have LiveMarket where you can see how long certain cars have been advertised without sale etc.

Wholesalers are a help - we ring them to get an opinion and that opinion would likely be based on what has been transacting in recent weeks/months.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Current market - look at what is currently for sale based on KMS and age.

Autogate have LiveMarket where you can see how long certain cars have been advertised without sale etc.

Wholesalers are a help - we ring them to get an opinion and that opinion would likely be based on what has been transacting in recent weeks/months.

What a lot of posters here have forgotten to mention is that your clients are totally honest about the car that they're trading........ aren't they?

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

What a lot of posters here have forgotten to mention is that your clients are totally honest about the car that they're trading........ aren't they?

No, I'm sure if I was to talk to the experience with vehicles having issues covered up and costing our business thousands we'd still be made to look like its our own fault.

But hey, we cop what we have to.

PS; don't buy a run of the mill car from Grays Online auctions.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

So long as there is a gap between cost price and retail price I don't think it honestly matters what the salesperson gets paid as their superiors will be expecting to maximise each transaction.

Then why operate on a commission strategy?

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Then why operate on a commission strategy?

For someone who has such experience and exposure to sales environments I find that a strange question for you to ask

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

For someone who has such experience and exposure to sales environments I find that a strange question for you to ask

Because in my industry, the sales crews don't get paid commissions, we're all on base rates only, none of the reps or sales teams are on commissions, that's oldskool business and it doesn't happen anymore.

If they gave me financial KPI's and tied it to rewards, I'd be absolutely ruthless and the first people I'd stop helping are my colleagues in my interstate branches and I'd actively start taking all their customers.

Not giving me financial incentives in the form of commissions doesn't effect how well I do my job, I do my job well because I want to keep my job and I like what I do.

What it does do is mean I'll provide equal and good service to everyone, not just the one I can get the most money out of.

Here's a good article worth a read about financial KPIs:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...12-p4zl29.html

Why did they do it? That is the question that springs to mind when trying to explain systematically bad behaviour.

It was asked when recently it emerged Commonwealth Bank staff were inappropriately setting up bank accounts for children. Victoria Police pondered the same thing when its officers were found to be inflating breath test bags themselves.

It systematically encourages bad behavior.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

What a lot of posters here have forgotten to mention is that your clients are totally honest about the car that they're trading........ aren't they?

Ah yes, when trading in my T5 Transporter many years ago the VW dealer asked me straight off the bat, "What's the auto transmission like seeing as you've done 300,000km?" (it was a 6 speed torque converter made by Japanese company Aisin and already replaced back at the 85K km mark) I simply replied "well if your manufacturer's service schedule provided to me at time of purchase included a regular transmission service instead of "sealed for life" maintenance claim it probably would be a lot better."

It's funny the salesman working out the trade-in knew what long term issues to watch out for but the service manager and VW warranty department seemed to miss the customer and real world feedback

[Franco Cozzo]

I should add, we had a bonus structure when I was a 1st year apprentice at a Honda dealership (which no longer exists), which the service advisors and mechanics were eligible for, which meant the service advisors were flat out bull****ting to customers that they needed things their cars didn't need on top of their usual servicing, we were forever doing AC deodorise, injector cleans, power steering flushes and changing service items like brake pads on cars which didn't need them, I'm talking cars with 40,000km on the clock.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Because in my industry, the sales crews don't get paid commissions, we're all on base rates only, none of the reps or sales teams are on commissions, that's oldskool business and it doesn't happen anymore.

If they gave me financial KPI's and tied it to rewards, I'd be absolutely ruthless and the first people I'd stop helping are my colleagues in my interstate branches and I'd actively start taking all their customers.

Not giving me financial incentives in the form of commissions doesn't effect how well I do my job, I do my job well because I want to keep my job and I like what I do.

What it does do is mean I'll provide equal and good service to everyone, not just the one I can get the most money out of.

Here's a good article worth a read about financial KPIs:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...12-p4zl29.html



It systematically encourages bad behavior.

Really well said mate, I see myself as a respectful person and i've never had a good dealing with a car salesman. I've only bought one car from a yard and i vowed it to be my first and last, that was 18 years ago. All private sales since then. I have helped many friends though, to ensure they weren't being taken for a ride.

I don't ever agree with Hulk but his comment about not making emotional purchases is very true. I've made a few in my time and paid the price for it, i'm ok with that but you need to be aware of how much difference it makes during a sale.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Because in my industry, the sales crews don't get paid commissions, we're all on base rates only, none of the reps or sales teams are on commissions, that's oldskool business and it doesn't happen anymore.

If they gave me financial KPI's and tied it to rewards, I'd be absolutely ruthless and the first people I'd stop helping are my colleagues in my interstate branches and I'd actively start taking all their customers.

Not giving me financial incentives in the form of commissions doesn't effect how well I do my job, I do my job well because I want to keep my job and I like what I do.

What it does do is mean I'll provide equal and good service to everyone, not just the one I can get the most money out of.

Here's a good article worth a read about financial KPIs:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...12-p4zl29.html



It systematically encourages bad behaviour.

Most of what I got out of that is that KPI's are damaging when people set them too unrealistically and, more appropriately, if KPIs are set with a realistic ability to achieve them then the bad behaviours aren't required.

As I said, so long as there is an RRP and a cost price if a purchaser wants to do their best at getting it for the lowest price it is not to be frowned upon that a salesperson wants to get it at the highest they can either.

Some car companies are now starting to move away from rewarding franchisees based on things like net promoter scores as opposed to target achievements etc (Toyota started this back in 2015). So that then changes the approach but still maintains that there is a KPI to be set and a KPI to be manipulated.

[Interceptor]

With everyone is jumping on Redbook etc, from my experience car buyers tend to want to pay wholesale price for the car they buy, but want full on retail price for their trade in..... all the while saying they cant be bothered getting a roadworthy or going through all the BS to sell their old car....

[slowsnake]

That Redbooks a funny thing eh..

Even the dealer has to use it to value his own cars, they buy em or trade em all day and need a book to work out it's value...


Cheers Billy

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

That Redbooks a funny thing eh..

Even the dealer has to use it to value his own cars, they buy em or trade em all day and need a book to work out it's value...


Cheers Billy

See post 123.