VFacts Jan 2012 Falcon 950 sales!!!!!!!!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Bring back the long options lists.

I've been looking for a new second car, so want a small to medium vehicle with all the trimmings. So far it's been bloody hard to find anything we really like. If we could option up what's out there, problem would be solved.

As an example; we like the Focus Titanium with all the trimmings, if I could option the 17in Sport wheels we would have signed the papers last week.
Same goes with the Holden Cruze, the options are limited.

You realise that Titanium comes with 18 x 8 alloy spoked wheels,....didn't like them?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by jpd80

You realise that Titanium comes with 18 x 8 alloy spoked wheels,....didn't like them?

image

I like the look of the 18's, very nice.


However, the 18's was an after thought, the Focus was designed with 16's. The 17's fit fine, the 18's are too large. Ford had to reset the steering to stop the wheels scrubbing on the inner guard when steering is on full lock. This affects the turning circle, bringing it to a truck turning 12.2m radius.

We drove both the Sport and the Titanium and picked it up straight away, swinging into parks is easier in our Territory. Not to mention the harder ride and noisy tyres.

It's all here; http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=80

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Danny

Bumping up the already over inflated prices we suffer here for imported vehicles, thereby forcing us to buy a poorer less feature laden inferior product??

No thanks, Ford need to lift their game and make Falcon sell in the face of its competition, rather than penalising us for making a decision based on value and quality.....

every other car making country around the world protects their own industry with taxes and tariffs, except australia. i don't see the issue with it.

too many people only look inwards and worry about themselves rather than the bigger picture.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by z80

yeah mate...big gas guzzling cars can be made fuel efficient.
Just trim off a few heavy bits like Mitsubishi did

Makes the package alot cheaper to run...

people will flock to buy a light fuel efficient model...hehehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zruhg...layer_embedded#

Fuel efficency is not the reason - look at how many people buy V8 commodores and 4wds which chew the juice in a major way

The key point that nobody wants to hear is the Falcon is dead in the water - buyers have moved on and the product is no longer relevent (check the sales numbers if you don't believe me)

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Probably because it was big news that Ford had dropped the RRP of XR6 from 42k to 39k with FG2 and already a month in they are selling at 37k. I dont understand why they even list a RRP anymore.

I'm with you: 7 out of every 10 falcons sold go into fleets - so the RRP is really only relevent for the 3 out of every 10 that are private sale...and then none of them pay RRP.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Spammy

The key point that nobody wants to hear is the Falcon is dead in the water - buyers have moved on and the product is no longer relevent (check the sales numbers if you don't believe me)

So you keep repeating over and over again.

Its like a broken record with some people. If all you've got to say is negative why come here?

[prydey]

falcon is confirmed until 2016, and yet the naysayers still feel the need to have their little say.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sales are recorded as registrations, not factory builds.
Ford insists that dealers declare when new cars have been hail damaged
and customers can decide whether they accept them or take replacements.
The hail damage occurred after the plant was shut down for Christmas-New Year break
but there was word that some product was stored at another location and is undamaged.

I'm not sticking up for Ford but dealers have a duty to disclose, not to badger you into accepting
a less than perfect new car that loses heaps the moment you drive off the showroom floor...

A lot of the cars will be pre-delivery repaired using the paintless system to pull out dents,
I hear it's very good on small dents and will probably result in lots of people getting
extraordinary discounts on these new vehicles, they will all be sold...and not for $500 less.

OK, so cars are recorded as sold when registered.. Cheers.

A little disappointing that Ford didn't offer me the car at the discount they'll offer the car to the public then. I guess they have their reasons, to me it again points to a lack of servicing existing customers, instead concentrating on luring in new ones.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by martyk54

OK, so cars are recorded as sold when registered.. Cheers.

A little disappointing that Ford didn't offer me the car at the discount they'll offer the car to the public then. I guess they have their reasons, to me it again points to a lack of servicing existing customers, instead concentrating on luring in new ones.

It's an area where the buying experience is let down badly, if Ford /dealers
did the right thing from the outset, buyers would have more faith in them

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Spammy

I'm with you: 7 out of every 10 falcons sold go into fleets - so the RRP is really only relevent for the 3 out of every 10 that are private sale...and then none of them pay RRP.

The RRP has more effect on the quoted discount price to fleets, so regardless of what
discounts are offered to retail, those sales are still much higher than the fleet price.

The subtle drop in RRP is completely lost on retail buyers but to fleets,
it means their new discount price is much lower than the price for FG.

For example,
20% discount on $39 (31.2K) versus 20% discount on $37K (29.6), fleet price is lower but not $2K lower.

[Nikked]

If ford had a 5.8l twin-turbo diesel AWD GTHO coupe, sales would be much higher.

Ford are so stupid for not doing this. /sarcasm

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nikked

If ford had a 5.8l twin-turbo diesel AWD GTHO coupe, sales would be much higher.

Ford are so stupid for not doing this. /sarcasm

But they would have to sell it at $20,000 with 20,000 klms on the clock so that buyers wouldn't feel ripped off...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Spammy

The key point that nobody wants to hear is the Falcon is dead in the water - buyers have moved on and the product is no longer relevent (check the sales numbers if you don't believe me)

Falcon was still in the top 10 for 2011.. If Falcon is relevent, then there is another 52 models in Australia that are in series trouble!!!!!!!

[jpd80]

It cost Holden close to $590 million to introduce Cruze to Austraila,
so a switch from Falcon to Mondeo-Fusion-next Taurus would be similar
but doing a local evolutionary design might end up costing about the same..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The RRP has more effect on the quoted discount price to fleets, so regardless of what
discounts are offered to retail, those sales are still much higher than the fleet price.

The subtle drop in RRP is completely lost on retail buyers but to fleets,
it means their new discount price is much lower than the price for FG.

For example,
20% discount on $39 (31.2K) versus 20% discount on $37K (29.6), fleet price is lower but not $2K lower.

So I understand... Your saying fleets actually get "trading term" discounts as percentages off RRP (as a oppose to a dollar price for the car)? So the dropping of RRP for FGII has allot more to do with cheaper fleet pricing than any price difference for private buyers??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

So I understand... Your saying fleets actually get "trading term" discounts as percentages off RRP (as a oppose to a dollar price for the car)? So the dropping of RRP for FGII has allot more to do with cheaper fleet pricing than any price difference for private buyers??

Well, $36,990 drive away appears to be the desirable discount retail price....

Presentation of fleet package:
- Reduced RRP
- same % discount
- lower fleet price
- more features
- better residual values
- EcoLPI available
- Ecoboost available

That is a good strategy and will catch the eye a lot of fleet managers..
There could be some slight changes in the details to fleet but the gist is
that they are lowering costs and offering more features, that the hook...

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It cost Holden close to $590 million to introduce Cruze to Austraila,
so a switch from Falcon to Mondeo-Fusion-next Taurus would be similar
but doing a local evolutionary design might end up costing about the same..

mmmmmmmmm I know the statement (and requirement) at the time was that the governments were puttiing in $150 miilion or so, and Holden were going to put in the other 3/4, but who actually believes bringing the cruze to australia cost $600 million. It was already designed, and with a fair proportion of the parts being imported and coming off tooling that was already made, I find it very hard that the government just didnt give Holden a big free kick on this (gave them the money with really no input from Holden). Holden were cash strapped at the time of this announcement (cruze production), and any money that GM had, could'nt go offshore, so I have no idea where Holden found the other $450 million. If Holden did put $450 million in (very very unlikely), then they wont be repeating this bloodbath for a long long time.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Falcon was still in the top 10 for 2011.. If Falcon is relevent, then there is another 52 models in Australia that are in series trouble!!!!!!!

No becasse they sell all of those cars in global markets - Falcon is pretty much an orphan.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Spammy

No becasse they sell all of those cars in global markets - Falcon is pretty much an orphan.

It is an orphan for now (mind you, with global gear boxes & engines!!!), but the next Gen won't be an orphan!! Then what will you complain about??

[Polyal]

The downfall of the Falcon and its derivatives is that Ford just dont have the cash to make the Falcon what it needs to be at every update.

One Ford in theory should fix this, but we are yet to see it yet. The next update should show this and if it ever eventuates the next major update should be well and truly integrated.

They have to update systems at a time, not the entire car. Look at FPV, they are lucky and can get away with it a bit more because really they are about power. So they got Miami but the est of the package pretty much unchanged. Last round updates the interior and nothing else..etc etc

Problem with that is the industry moves so quickly, and the global cars get all the fruit through economies of scale.

There is a happy medium there with the Falcon looking forward, I could not ever see it being exported etc but tapping into a GWRD program and saving a cash through the hard work being done leaves room for all the bells and whistles for the local market.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Spammy

No becasse they sell all of those cars in global markets - Falcon is pretty much an orphan.

mmmm... but for how long

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Polyal

The downfall of the Falcon and its derivatives is that Ford just dont have the cash to make the Falcon what it needs to be at every update.

.................

They've been telling us that for 30 years.

If Ford management and our Governments looked at the problem with an eye for the long term, rather than the election and employment cycle, we'd have factories in place large enough to produce and export at levels to make us self sufficient.

Instead they have let their chances by-pass us and go to Thailand and Korea.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by johnydep

They've been telling us that for 30 years.

If Ford management and our Governments looked at the problem with an eye for the long term, rather than the election and employment cycle, we'd have factories in place large enough to produce and export at levels to make us self sufficient.

Instead they have let their chances by-pass us and go to Thailand and Korea.

30 years? Well its just how it is. So you have a choice, do it like this or dont do it at all.

Governments should have nothing to do with what a car company does unless it actually is a stakeholder. GovCo are there to stay elected and thats half the problem, they are not worried about long term and thus cant really be a good help anyway.

I just cant ever see exports on a large scale working for Australia. We are not geared for it and AFAIK have never done it well.

The only way Ford Oz can reduce their costs while still keeping a bit of R&D and manufacturing here is by using a common platform and popping the panels and interior in themselves.

That way we get our own styling and maybe the odd unique engine and you minimise the loss that a fully imported but locally manufactured car will create

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Polyal

30 years? Well its just how it is. So you have a choice, do it like this or dont do it at all.

Governments should have nothing to do with what a car company does unless it actually is a stakeholder. GovCo are there to stay elected and thats half the problem, they are not worried about long term and thus cant really be a good help anyway.

I just cant ever see exports on a large scale working for Australia. We are not geared for it and AFAIK have never done it well.

The only way Ford Oz can reduce their costs while still keeping a bit of R&D and manufacturing here is by using a common platform and popping the panels and interior in themselves.

That way we get our own styling and maybe the odd unique engine and you minimise the loss that a fully imported but locally manufactured car will create

What organisation says "that's the way it is"?

While Governments hand out Tax Payer dollars, they are obliged to be part of the process used to determine how the money is spent, after all it's not their money.

It's not about have any control of the company. It's about making sure the money is spent wisely, to ensure that it is invested with the aim of a return; long term viability of an industry and jobs.

If that can not be done, do not waste money and resources.

All that's required is to follow the lead of the successful countries that have invested in an industry and are now reaping the rewards; Korea, Thailand.

Governments have to try pick a winner; hard, I know. So let the industry do the choosing. Get all three to the table, show a plan; the Australian Government want an automotive industry that can export x amount of vehicles per year. For that we will give you xxxxx. Targets must be met by xxxxx, etc.

The plan started in the Hawke/Keating days, Ford, Toyota and GM-H started to export. Toyota and Holden have been moderately successful, Nissan threw in the towel and went to imports, Mitsubishi tried to float on internal sales and hand outs, Ford have had half hearted attempts with the Capri and Territory.

The sad thing is only one or two companies will be able to take such an offer, the other will have to go to imports.

Or, the Government and industry continue down the same road, and all three eventually turn to import and re-badging.

[Polyal]

So we have no real proven history of exporting cars and you want the government to make it happen? This issue is bigger than the government.

My "thats the way it is" comment was in reference to not being able to provide long term plans. Governments make policy so they can stay in the job for another day. Likewise a CEO will come down here and make changes based on them wanting to look like they have stamped their own footprint on the company.

Both of these outcomes are not right, but thats the way it is.

One Ford will attempt to help the situation alot if they can tap into a GWRD.

If you want exports what are they going to sell and who too? And why from Australia when you can do it cheaper in other countries?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Governments have to try pick a winner; hard, I know. So let the industry do the choosing. Get all three to the table, show a plan; the Australian Government want an automotive industry that can export x amount of vehicles per year. For that we will give you xxxxx. Targets must be met by xxxxx, etc.

1) The ACCC might have a problem with all 3 sitting at the table!
2) Just becuase you think exports are the answer does not mean Ford, Holden, toyota & the Governemnt think it is the answer..All these smart people running the show clearly don't know as much as you!!!

[JPFS1]

OK... you can see how T6 was handled... ?

apply that strategy with your favorite RWD large car, and there might be something in that.

[SS_01]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

OK... you can see how T6 was handled... ?

apply that strategy with your favorite RWD large car, and there might be something in that.

That is what ive been thinking since the T6 was launched. Thanks

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So we have no real proven history of exporting cars and you want the government to make it happen? This issue is bigger than the government.

............

If you want exports what are they going to sell and who too? And why from Australia when you can do it cheaper in other countries?

1)

Japan and Korea had no "proven history of exporting cars", yet they are now major exporters of vehicles. How?
Their Governments assisted their industry, they brought in proven professionals to help and teach what is required.

Don't get caught in the old trap of "it/they are too big". Those words have been used for a millennium, nothing is forever, survival is long term planning, preparation and execution .

2)

Your right, we may have missed the boat by 20 years. And that is part of the reason Government and industry have to sit down and talk. It's not the first time, and it wont be the last.

If we want a vehicle manufacturing industry we can't continue on the same road; Government hand out for new model, new engine, etc.

[JPFS1]

Just my opinion, doesn't mean I am right, just the logical thing to do one would think ?