Falcon has a future with us, says Ford

[R-Design]

I might be reading a little too much between the lines but I think this is the scenario:

1. Mondeo & Fusion platforms are merged.
2. Taurus platform is too similar to Mondeo/Fusion and becomes obsolete.
3. Taurus is reborn as a RWD premium large car developed in the US. This platform forms the basis for the next generation Falcon/Territory produced in right-hand drive for global markets with minimal local engineering content.
4. The Taurus GRWD platform spawns a LWB which can be used for the new Crown Victoria / Fairlane / Falcon Wagon. All which will be produced in the US for left-hand drive markets, and Australia for the balance.
5. Mustang can either be included or excluded depending on profitability of that platform.

How’d I go Steve, did I miss anything?

[R-Design]

Then again...

Originally Posted by MATT CAMPBELL.
December 14, 2009 - 11:49AM

Ford Australia boss Marin Burela hints at possible all-wheel-drive future for local business.

Ford Australia boss Marin Burela has hinted the company may abandon its rear-wheel-drive heritage in the longer term.

The Falcon, like its rival Holden Commodore, has been rear-drive for decades, but Burela says customers are no longer wedded to the concept.

At the launch of the Ford Fiesta Econetic, Burela agreed that the next generation of car buyers could be pulled towards Front-wheel drive, due to the fact that young drivers are more likely to learn to drive and own smaller front-wheel drive cars, rather than large second-hand vehicles.

“I think we’re going to, eventually, I’m not quite sure when, you’ll get to a point where people won’t even ask the question,” said Mr Burela.
“I think that those types of questions will become something of yesterday’s problem.

“It’s very clear that in Australia there’s a divided view on all of this. We’ve seen the hardcore customers saying ‘I’ve only ever driven a rear-wheel drive’ and that’s what they understand,” said Mr. Burela.

“But what we’re starting to see now, and it’s emerging very,very strongly, is this desirability for all-wheel drive. It’s really starting to come to the fore.”

Mr. Burela confirmed that the new 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbocharged Falcon, to be released in 2011, will remain a rear-wheel drive.

“The ECOboost will be the first application of any vehicle in the world that’s a rear-wheel drive,” he said. “The confidence of Ford Motor Company has in its Australian business and where it’s heading, was absolutely made clear by that decision alone. It is a significant decision.”

He said customers had told the company they wanted “fuel-efficiency and sustainability" from their vehicles, but they also wanted space.

"They said to us: ‘we actually like driving larger cars. But what we want also, please Mr Ford, is something that makes us feel proud to own, it won’t cost us an arm and a leg’ – so fuel efficiency is important.”

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...1214-kr55.html

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Boss315

Then again...

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...1214-kr55.html

A CEO wouldnt make these comments for no reason. My reading:

Falcon's and Territory's future will be Taurus platform. FWD will be standard with AWD optional. AWD will probably be standard on higher trims and performance versions. Falcon Ute wont exist, it will be replaced by more variants of the Thai made T6 Ranger. The I6 will be replaced by ecboost 4 and 6 cylinder engines. V8s may still be available.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A CEO wouldnt make these comments for no reason.

Falcon's and Territory's future will be Taurus platform. FWD will be standard with AWD optional. AWD will probably be standard on higher trims and performance versions. Falcon Ute wont exist, it will be replaced by more variants of the Thai made T6 Ranger.

If so, I wonder if Ford will act surprised when their market share is a third of what it is now? If it happens it's only because they have no alternative, rather than it being what the market wants.

[cosmo20btt]

For goodness sake there's a whole thread on here about how the Aurion is struggling for sales and yet we still seem to be going down the FWD path, and it's only promise is AWD. It's just not what us Australians want, Ford would be selling at no1 today if it was not for it's past mistakes ie: EA and AU I know they came good in time with development but some people who live here once burnt never go back again, so I really hope Ford does not make another blunder, all they have to do is see out the storm and just keep producing more quality cars like they have. I think if Ford sold a Taurus styled car alongside the Falcon, then we would see who buys what.. Bet It would be the Falcon.

[Chilliman]

That drive.com.au article smells like a re-hash of one that was published about 6 months ago? It doesn't relly say anything new other than they're looking at all options.

The way I read it is that FWD/AWD is some distance off into the future and that there is at least one more generation of RWD Falcon to come.

[Ohio XB]

I don't know what to make of that article.


I believe Fusion/Mondeo merges in the next gen.

Taurus can go back to a mid-sized, front wheel drive car like it had always been (instead of full sized like now) and might even be the US version of the Mondeo??? Who knows.

Mustang will stay on it's own.


Falcon will still be built in Australia (RWD) but could be a US re-design of the current Orion platform. The redesign can also accomodate LHD.



Burela is right. A lot of teenagers and 20-somethings, even some 30-somethings, have only driven FWD cars. It is quite common for a 20-something here (US) to be hesitant to drive a RWD car in the winter for not knowing how it will respond to slippery roads or how to regain control as the car gets slightly sideways.

Face it guys, we are either old farts or just plain old school.


Steve

[cosmo20btt]

^^^
It's a bit of a different story here as 18 to 20 year olds start to go on to there open license, most would sell their soul to go get into a full size car that is rear wheel drive with a little herbs as the government here have stopped P platers from driving any thing with any horse power.

[R-Design]

Ken Gratton jumps off the deep end!

Originally Posted by Ken Gratton

Will Ford offer the Falcon with the Territory's all-wheel-drive system?

Ford Australia President Marin Burela has reiterated remarks made several months ago about all-wheel drive being one possibility for the Falcon or its successor.

Speaking at the launch of the Fiesta ECOnetic last week, Burela repeated comments on a subject he first raised over six months ago, at the opening of the ACART facility at Ford's proving grounds. His latest remarks -- suggesting that some prospective buyers might welcome all-wheel drive in Ford's locally-built large car -- were picked up by one media outlet and effectively presented as breaking news.

That has led some correspondents in online forums to speculate -- once more -- that Ford is considering the American market Taurus with all-wheel drive to replace the Falcon, post 2014. And let's not even talk about Ford dropping a V6 into the Mondeo -- all in order to provide a car capable of matching the Falcon for packaging, but also meeting the straight-line performance expectations of current Falcon owners, as well as complying with the 'One Ford' global production strategy.

What appears to have been forgotten is that Ford is already building an all-wheel drive car in Australia -- the Territory -- and that vehicle shares much with the Falcon, including its longitudinal engine mounting.

Furthermore, the Territory -- a vehicle deemed to be a passenger car as far as the federal government is concerned -- will comply with the Euro IV emission standard in July of 2010, when it adopts the same upgraded inline six slated for the FG Falcon at that time.

Ford Communications Manager, Sinead McAlary confirmed with the Carsales Network that the Territory will migrate to Euro IV then.

"[Territory] is classified as an SUV under VFACTS, but in terms of Australian Design Rules... it has met all passenger safety standards, so it's classified as a passenger vehicle," she said. "Now it will obviously -- in July next year -- get the updated, Euro IV I6 engine, so it will definitely become Euro IV-compliant."

That suggests that the SUV will align even closer still with the Falcon's mechanicals. Closer mechanical specification means cost savings for Ford also, of course. Now here's some speculation: if Burela's apparent hints that Ford might re-engineer the Falcon at some point down the track to accept Territory's all-wheel- drive system, wouldn't that also suggest that the Falcon Ute could be similarly equipped?

Looking at the sales figures for conventional pick-ups, 4x4 models (HiLux, Navara, etc) usually outsell 4x2 models. Could Ford effectively double sales of the car-derived Ute by offering 4x4 variants? Think of the fun you could have in a 4x4 Ute with the XR6 Turbo engine...

Then again, ask Toyota about the demand for a 4x4 hot rod LCV...

Back to the main issue; why does the adoption of all-wheel drive for the large car range -- including the light commercial variants -- necessarily mean the cessation of local production for the car in rear-wheel drive form or the end of the Falcon nameplate?

We asked McAlary to comment on what could be construed from Burela's remarks last week.

"That is the usual round of speculation," she responded.

"I'm sure what Marin said was that, as he said before, 'we're not in a position to have to decide what we're going to do'.

"There's a lot of people who say 'rear-wheel drive is the only way a Falcon could be'; there's others who say 'oh no, maybe we could do it with all-wheel drive'.

"There's a whole range of different options open to us but we're not any closer to making a decision on that at all."

McAlary has said in the past (see our previous report) that 'One Ford' allows regional offices to exercise a degree of autonomy, provided it is in the interests Ford locally and globally to do so.

Here's our view, on the basis that where there's smoke, there's fire -- and the fire in this instance appears to have been started by lightning striking twice in the same place.

With Marin Burela dropping hints twice in six months that all-wheel drive is on the agenda for a future large car, this suggests that Ford's Falcon market research has been concluded and the Ford President is possibly preparing everyone for an unexpected future scenario -- but not necessarily one in which the Taurus or the Mondeo figure large.

Given the smaller sales volumes for the Territory, we would anticipate that it will be subject to a seven-year model cycle, rather than the six-year cycle for the Falcon. This would allow Ford a longer period to amortise the Territory's unique engineering. If that's the case, the 2011 Territory would arrive three years ahead of the prospective end date for the FG-based Falcon range -- perhaps just enough time for Ford to develop a new Falcon range based on the Territory II's platform and underpinnings. Something like that has happened before...

Then again, maybe Aussie buyers would prefer a Taurus?

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/lar...car-ford-17746

[Road_Warrior]

That's some pretty rampant speculation right there, but he's right in saying that a future Toreass is a non-starter because it will share a common platform with the future Mondeo which will be a C/D car and too small for the segment.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

That's some pretty rampant speculation right there, but he's right in saying that a future Toreass is a non-starter because it will share a common platform with the future Mondeo which will be a C/D car and too small for the segment.

Hmmm Im not so sure, I think the Tauras will remain large, as the Fusion already caters to the mid size market, and the Fusion will continue to align itself with the Mondeo making it pointless for the Tauras to go smaller. Also Ford wants to have a vehicle which can in some part replace existing Crown Vic sales when that stops production, so I dont see the Tauras shrinking anytime soon.

I honestly think this article is using very selective quoting of MB, remember MB has on a couple of occasions stated that young people are being brought up on front-wheel-drives nowadays and he went on to say that rear-wheel-drive preferences are becoming less of an issue with newer buyers - all this suggest to me that a Tauras is likely to be the backbone of future Falcons. I think MB is bringing up AWD to make the idea of a Tauras platform more palatable to buyers.

The author also fails to mention Ford AUs role in developing the T6 Ranger. This new Ranger may make the chance of a 4wd Falcon Ute less likely as they would be both aiming for the same buyers potentially.

Although im all just speculating, which is half the fun of these forums. No matter which way Falcon heads I bet it will remain a fantastic car.

[FPV GTHO]

What is T6 going to do that Ranger isnt currently doing?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

What is T6 going to do that Ranger isnt currently doing?

Like most dual cab utes, they havent really advanced a lot in 15 years, sure they look pretty nowadays but they still ride and handle like trucks.

I have a feeling the new Ranger will be a lot more roomier, almost Falcon sized with vastly improved ride, handling and comfort.

Ford already states that the current Ranger is a suitable substitute to the now defunt Falcon RTV, so I cant see Ford making anymore variants in the future which will get even closer to the new T6 Ranger.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

What is T6 going to do that Ranger isnt currently doing?

Be a newer model.

It is the new Ranger.......

[FalconXV]

I would expect the announcement of EB 4cyl would make this more viable- more room in the engine bay and less front end weight? Being turbo it could be tuned up to F6 levels....Just speculating

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Boss315

Ken Gratton jumps off the deep end!

[url]http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/large-passenger/ford/falcon-fg/opinion-divided-on-awd-large-car-ford-17746

Good to see a positive spin by Ken Gratton and Carpoint.

Originally Posted by carsales

"There's a lot of people who say 'rear-wheel drive is the only way a Falcon could be'; there's others who say 'oh no, maybe we could do it with all-wheel drive'.
"There's a whole range of different options open to us but we're not any closer to making a decision on that at all."

No mention of FWD there.

Originally Posted by carsales

McAlary has said in the past (see our previous report) that 'One Ford' allows regional offices to exercise a degree of autonomy, provided it is in the interests Ford locally and globally to do so.

Another hint that Ford Aus doesn't have to go FWD?

Might be reading too much into it. Why not?! There was no mention of FWD. Only RWD & AWD. Then, we can do what we want as long as it's in the interest of Ford locally and globally...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford already states that the current Ranger is a suitable substitute to the now defunt Falcon RTV, so I cant see Ford making anymore variants in the future which will get even closer to the new T6 Ranger.

If that is true and this is what they said, they truly have no clue.

The Ranger is like other commercial 'pick up' utes - with kidney smasher suspension. The RTV had car like handling and ride quality.

Oh, and the RTV was the only commercial vehicle available in Australia with 1 tonne payload, factory dedicated gas, and some semblance of off road ability - in one vehicle.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

If that is true and this is what they said, they truly have no clue.

The Ranger is like other commercial 'pick up' utes - with kidney smasher suspension. The RTV had car like handling and ride quality.

Oh, and the RTV was the only commercial vehicle available in Australia with 1 tonne payload, factory dedicated gas, and some semblance of off road ability - in one vehicle.

Dont get me started on how wrong I thought that decision was. Green image of LPG, only available column auto in work utes, Australian made and the name just starting to earn a positive reputation - well in my industry anyway (civil contracting) and they decide to pull it. I mean it takes so long to build a reputation with fleets and tradies and they just pull it - look at how much Hilux sell on name alone.

Im still paying the price! I have to ride around in awful hiluxes at work when we were about to go with the RTV. Just no comparison between driving a Falcon ute and a Jap ute.

[Bossxr8]

Territory AWD does not fit Falcon, the driveshafts would have to go through the block on a Falc. They only just fit under the modified sump on the Territory, lower the engine down to Falcon ride height and its a no deal.

The theory of AWD defeats the purpose of going to a FWD/AWD platform. One will have slightly better economy, the other will have much worse due to higher weight and driveline friction. Its utterly self defeating. You could probably average out the economy of the AWD/FWD version Vs the RWD version and you would probably get the same economy overall.

[outback_ute]

Road_Warrior - some rampant errors in the article also... "the Territory -- a vehicle deemed to be a passenger car as far as the federal government is concerned" No it is an SUV which is a different thing, he appears to be confused by the statement that despite this the Territory meets passenger car regs.

If the Taurus goes back to mid-size, where does that leave the Fusion? The talk of awd Falcon makes me nervous as others have said, chances are indicates a fwd-based platform paired with Taurus. I hope not.

[Ohio XB]

I expect a lot of clarity in April.


Steve

[cosmo20btt]

I hope it's not on the 1st of April.

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I expect a lot of clarity in April.


Steve

They won't release information about transitioning to a Taurus-Falcon convergence program that soon will they, thought that was two product cycles away? :P

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by RPO83

They won't release information about transitioning to a Taurus-Falcon convergence program that soon will they, thought that was two product cycles away? :P

Burela said they didn't have to make a decision on a follow-on platform until 2011...?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Territory AWD does not fit Falcon, the driveshafts would have to go through the block on a Falc. They only just fit under the modified sump on the Territory, lower the engine down to Falcon ride height and its a no deal.

The theory of AWD defeats the purpose of going to a FWD/AWD platform. One will have slightly better economy, the other will have much worse due to higher weight and driveline friction. Its utterly self defeating. You could probably average out the economy of the AWD/FWD version Vs the RWD version and you would probably get the same economy overall.

Driveshafts through the sump isnt a new thing....

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Burela said they didn't have to make a decision on a follow-on platform until 2011...?

Unless its going to be good news for the local industry perhaps.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by RPO83

They won't release information about transitioning to a Taurus-Falcon convergence program that soon will they, thought that was two product cycles away? :P

I am figuring an announcement in the US in April will provide some deductive guidance on the future of the RWD Falcon in Australia. I don't know for SURE, but I read that there would be an announcement on the GRWD platform in April, and that is also when my plant is supposed to shut down for retooling, and we have not been told what we are getting yet.

Of course everything is subject to change.

Steve

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I am figuring an announcement in the US in April will provide some deductive guidance on the future of the RWD Falcon in Australia. I don't know for SURE, but I read that there would be an announcement on the GRWD platform in April, and that is also when my plant is supposed to shut down for retooling, and we have not been told what we are getting yet.

Of course everything is subject to change.

Steve

it's interesting that April is the same time that ford will provide details on their police pack to replace the Crown Victoria. I like the way you think Steve, I guess time will tell.

[Falc'man]

It's all happening.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It's all happening.

Certainly is.