September VFACTS

[dimka100]

I love you self justification reasoning but this ship has sailed and nobody believes this anymore ... that's why Australian retail is dying and everyone is turning to the web (purchasing good from overseas) ... we can't do it with cars as our Govco made sure there is enough market protectionism in place, but ultimately nothing lasts forever.

Originally Posted by phillyc

This whole argument of what costs what in the US is flawed. I'm not saying that at the higher end like Porsche / Ferrari etc there isn't is a massive distortion. There is. Several reasons for it though. There is a much bigger market. The volumes are hugely differen for individual models. The average US workers earns far less than an Australian worker too. According to National Average Wage Index it was $41,673 USD in 2010. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

The Australian average wage is $69,165 AUD in 2011.
http://www.emigratetoaustralia.org/a...australia.html

Allow for currency at $1.04 USD to $1.00 AUD and the yanks get $40,070 AUD with a 1 year difference in calender years measure.

That $35k USD BMW 328 becomes 44 weeks worked for a US citizen. 25 weeks for an Aussie worker at their prices and our pay rates (which is flawed).

The 2012 BMW 328i F30 is $64.9k AUD here.
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/resea...&Ridx=0&eapi=2
At our wages of $69,165pa it becomes 48.8 weeks worked for an Aussie worker buying it here in Australia.

Based on that metric it is 10% overpriced. Factor in sales volumes and transport costs etc.

Enough of the crap comparisons.

[csv8]

Windsor220, Ford's website lists the, manual XR6 as $43917 drive away..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by phillyc

This whole argument of what costs what in the US is flawed. I'm not saying that at the higher end like Porsche / Ferrari etc there isn't is a massive distortion. There is. Several reasons for it though. There is a much bigger market. The volumes are hugely differen for individual models. The average US workers earns far less than an Australian worker too. According to National Average Wage Index it was $41,673 USD in 2010. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

The Australian average wage is $69,165 AUD in 2011.
http://www.emigratetoaustralia.org/a...australia.html

Allow for currency at $1.04 USD to $1.00 AUD and the yanks get $40,070 AUD with a 1 year difference in calender years measure.

That $35k USD BMW 328 becomes 44 weeks worked for a US citizen. 25 weeks for an Aussie worker at their prices and our pay rates (which is flawed).

The 2012 BMW 328i F30 is $64.9k AUD here.
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/resea...&Ridx=0&eapi=2
At our wages of $69,165pa it becomes 48.8 weeks worked for an Aussie worker buying it here in Australia.

Based on that metric it is 10% overpriced. Factor in sales volumes and transport costs etc.

Enough of the crap comparisons.

Thanks, that is a very interesting post & some very good work to gather those numbers..

The wage differences are huge & I personally had no idea this was the case.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by phillyc

This whole argument of what costs what in the US is flawed. I'm not saying that at the higher end like Porsche / Ferrari etc there isn't is a massive distortion. There is. Several reasons for it though. There is a much bigger market. The volumes are hugely differen for individual models. The average US workers earns far less than an Australian worker too. According to National Average Wage Index it was $41,673 USD in 2010. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

The Australian average wage is $69,165 AUD in 2011.
http://www.emigratetoaustralia.org/a...australia.html

Allow for currency at $1.04 USD to $1.00 AUD and the yanks get $40,070 AUD with a 1 year difference in calender years measure.

That $35k USD BMW 328 becomes 44 weeks worked for a US citizen. 25 weeks for an Aussie worker at their prices and our pay rates (which is flawed).

The 2012 BMW 328i F30 is $64.9k AUD here.
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/resea...&Ridx=0&eapi=2
At our wages of $69,165pa it becomes 48.8 weeks worked for an Aussie worker buying it here in Australia.

Based on that metric it is 10% overpriced. Factor in sales volumes and transport costs etc.

Enough of the crap comparisons.

How does the comparison go when you take actual take home $$'s though philly?

Based on the above average wage and using these sites -

http://us.thetaxcalculator.net/

http://calculators.ato.gov.au/script...xcalc/main.asp

The figures are US 34,965 and AU 54,866.

[Gadgetman]

Sorry, but can someone please tell me how or why the mazda 3 sold over 4000 units yet the focus could only manage 1600 units.
Oh wait think i know the answer... the mazda uses a solid but proven old focus 2.0 litre engine. EFi and a 4 speed auto.. whiist the focus's 2.0 GDi engine and powershift DCT transmission might just be scaring people away as they arent familiar with this new technology. Anyways for those that don't know, the focus is currently the WORLD's top selling car. But somehow doesn't feature in the top 15 in australia. There is something clearly wrong and it aint the product.

[csv8]

Also supply issues from Belgium ,initially and now Thailand, which will improve over time...As buyers don't want to wait a couple of months for a car, whereas Mazda can supply immediately..as can Hyundai, Kia etc....Supply issues have been a problem for years..also affect Mondeo/Ranger etc....

[Gadgetman]

I hear what you're saying about supply issues however if supply was really an issue, then surely it couldnt possibly the worlds top selling car could it? The first of the LW's came from Germany and Ford Aus knew well that they would be built in thailand years ago. To have supply issues in a segment that has grown as big as it has is simply inexcusable. Same said for Ranger.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by csv8

Also supply issues from Belgium ,initially

Germany.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Germany.

Oops !! Mondeo is from Ghent, Belgium ??..Germany just across the border!!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Everyone saying average wage is just under $70K a year?

I guess even though the qualified auto electricians are paid above award wages at my workplace, coming in at $50K/year before tax, how can $70K be an average wage, it doesn't seem too "average" to me, given the people I work with and associate with won't come close.

Wouldn't median wage be the one to go for?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by csv8

Oops !! Mondeo is from Ghent, Belgium ??..Germany just across the border!!!

Genk,

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Everyone saying average wage is just under $70K a year?

I guess even though the qualified auto electricians are paid above award wages at my workplace, coming in at $50K/year before tax, how can $70K be an average wage, it doesn't seem too "average" to me, given the people I work with and associate with won't come close.

Wouldn't median wage be the one to go for?

You need to be unemployed, rent a house, 6-7 kids, some yours, some not........ you'll then get close to $70,000..........

[csv8]

As a nurse I get close to $70k but i have to work shift work and weekends to get it. Base rate is around $55k....

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Kieron

How does the comparison go when you take actual take home $$'s though philly?

Based on the above average wage and using these sites -

http://us.thetaxcalculator.net/

http://calculators.ato.gov.au/script...xcalc/main.asp

The figures are US 34,965 and AU 54,866.

Good to see someone else applying some effort. Even if it may be used for your own purpose. Much better than dimka's reply.

What the calculator from the US fails to include is state based income taxes. Did you know that they can range from zero to six percent?

The 35k USD income quickly becomes a potential 31.9k USD which is 30.7k AUD.

There are other complicatinlmily tax benefits stuff going on here in Australia too. Nonetheless its a fair estimate off average income that Australians are much better paid than Americans. Therefore price comparisons need to take this into account.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Kieron

How does the comparison go when you take actual take home $$'s though philly?

Based on the above average wage and using these sites -

http://us.thetaxcalculator.net/

http://calculators.ato.gov.au/script...xcalc/main.asp

The figures are US 34,965 and AU 54,866.

Add in our higher costs of everything eg... housing, food, utilities, fuel etc.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Everyone saying average wage is just under $70K a year?

I guess even though the qualified auto electricians are paid above award wages at my workplace, coming in at $50K/year before tax, how can $70K be an average wage, it doesn't seem too "average" to me, given the people I work with and associate with won't come close.

Wouldn't median wage be the one to go for?

U've got to thank the mines for the OVER INFLATED Australian Average wage.

Hey, not bagging them, they need to pay to get employess but when this is factored over everyone, up goes the AVG. I'm sure last reports it was near $75K per yr.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by csv8

Windsor220, Ford's website lists the, manual XR6 as $43917 drive away..

Its actually $37,490 atm. Unless you are referring to the turbo version but it has always been the standard XR6s that sold for the $36k deals you were talking about before.

http://www.ford.com.au/latest-offers/new-falcon

The actual RRP of an XR6 without any deals is $39,990 as seen below. I dont think Ford list RRP on their site.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579410002DB2A

[csv8]

Windsor, I just checked.. under Build Your Ford it does list the price after you enter your postcode and it is the XR6 not the turbo.
Turbo under that link is $50351 !!!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Its actually $37,490 atm. Unless you are referring to the turbo version but it has always been the standard XR6s that sold for the $36k deals you were talking about before.

http://www.ford.com.au/latest-offers/new-falcon

The actual RRP of an XR6 without any deals is $39,990 as seen below. I dont think Ford list RRP on their site.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579410002DB2A

Caradvice article from last year lists t these prices from Ford for FG II range:

Sedan:

XT – $37,235 (-$3055)
XR6 – $39,990 (-$3000)
XR6 Turbo – $46,235 (-$2755)
G6 – $40,835 (-$2555)
G6E – $46,735 (-$3655)
G6E Turbo – $56,235 (-$2755)

Ute:

XL (C/C) – $27,590 (-$3505)
XL (SSB) – $27,990 (-$3405)
XR6 (C/C) – $34,890 (-$3000)
XR6 (SSB) – $35,190 (-$3000)
XR6 Turbo – $39,190 (-$3000)

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by csv8

Windsor, I just checked.. under Build Your Ford it does list the price after you enter your postcode and it is the XR6 not the turbo.
Turbo under that link is $50351 !!!!

Ok so it does give prices but if you are going to talk about RRP plus on road costs then you need to look at the same for the other cars. Just had a look at the higher end Corollas and some are listed up to 36k driveaway. Thats almost the same amount as the XR6.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

I still don't know where all these Hilux's are, there must be millions of them out in some mine somewhere

Cancelled orders. I heard Toyota had a cancelled order of around 1500 Hilux's in WA, order replaced with Ranger and Colorado. Hilux isn't 5 star ANCAP, the other two are (and BT-50 as well). Mine and fleet companies are turning away from Hilux in droves, the 5 star ANCAP 4WD's are now the pick of the bunch. Hilux won't be 5 star ANCAP until at least the middle of next year and Toyota won't be doing any upgrades to D4D until end of 2014 at the earliest.

Although Hilux sales are going strong atm, I'd bet figures in 12 months time will be different. Toyota dealers are able to supply Hilux in almost any configuration immediately. Watch for a big advertising blitz from Toyota offloading an inferior product to private buyrs.

Ranger on the other hand is up to a 5 month wait time, then another 8-12 weeks wait time for it to be 'mine-specced'. Supply of vehicles and accessories too is the biggest issue for Ranger buyers from what I've been told.

Buying a Ranger has almost become the same experience as purchasing a 150 Prado. That is both a good thing and bad thing. They're a have-to-have vehicle as far as tradies and mine/fleets go. If Ford could make 5000 units available per month I'd bet they'd all sell.

I just bought my old man a Ranger XL 4x4 3.2 auto last month. The number of tradies who comment on it is amazing. It's like turning up to site driving a GT-P!

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Good to see someone else applying some effort. Even if it may be used for your own purpose. Much better than dimka's reply.

What the calculator from the US fails to include is state based income taxes. Did you know that they can range from zero to six percent?

The 35k USD income quickly becomes a potential 31.9k USD which is 30.7k AUD.

There are other complicatinlmily tax benefits stuff going on here in Australia too. Nonetheless its a fair estimate off average income that Australians are much better paid than Americans. Therefore price comparisons need to take this into account.

Fair enough philly, however I have no idea what you mean by 'Even if it may be used for your own purpose'???

Point really is, the simple calculations posted here ultimately don't tell the full story. What it comes down to is the overall cost of living, in particular housing cost. Then of course, there's fuel, food, electricity etc that should be taken into account.

For instance, a cursory look on the web gives the following figures -

Average property price Los Angeles area: US$359,000 (combined)
http://www.realtor.com/data-portal/R...tatistics.aspx

Average property price Sydney: House AU$641,037, unit AU$462,145
http://www.domain.com.au/content/fil...port-FINAL.pdf

Housing cost will dictate what our ultimate ability is to buy that Bimmer and
we can play around with these figures and make them say what we want too

When it comes down to it, manufacturers will charge what the market bares unless it's not viable.

[XR Martin]

Hate to buying an average house in LA.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Average property price Los Angeles area: US$359,000 (combined)
http://www.realtor.com/data-portal/R...tatistics.aspx

Average property price Sydney: House AU$641,037, unit AU$462,145
http://www.domain.com.au/content/fil...port-FINAL.pdf

.

Shouldn't that be:

US: average combined - $190,000 (us) - LA Long Beach av: $359,000
AU: average combined - $462,145 (au) - Sydney av: $641,037

I think that is more scary ...... for both in different ways.

But cant compare apples with apples as wages, taxes etc are very different. The price of a new car might be close to 1/2 here but so is alot of things. Amazes me how GM can export to the US. Either they are taking a very big loss or making a killing here.

Everything is relative to the area and I still think that new cars sales, while linked to housing prices, they are only relative to here?

[olds]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Sorry, but can someone please tell me how or why the mazda 3 sold over 4000 units yet the focus could only manage 1600 units.
Oh wait think i know the answer... the mazda uses a solid but proven old focus 2.0 litre engine. EFi and a 4 speed auto.. whiist the focus's 2.0 GDi engine and powershift DCT transmission might just be scaring people away as they arent familiar with this new technology. Anyways for those that don't know, the focus is currently the WORLD's top selling car. But somehow doesn't feature in the top 15 in australia. There is something clearly wrong and it aint the product.

Because the build quality of the focus is rubbish compared to the Mazda. And I know because I bought a brand new 2010 Lv Lx .

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by olds

Because the build quality of the focus is rubbish compared to the Mazda. And I know because I bought a brand new 2010 Lv Lx .

Had no trouble with mine, but I have heard others say the South African built Foci were patchy in quality.

The current LW's are built in Thailand, previously in Germany, so not really relevant to yours.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by olds

Because the build quality of the focus is rubbish compared to the Mazda. And I know because I bought a brand new 2010 Lv Lx .

do you also own a 2010 mazda3? have you driven any other focus' or just yours? are you basing your opinion on just one focus out of the many thousands that are built?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

do you also own a 2010 mazda3? have you driven any other focus' or just yours? are you basing your opinion on just one focus out of the many thousands that are built?

LV Focus build quality is junk, I have one too and it has nothing on my 2009 WS Fiesta, but technically the WS Fiesta is the newer car, it was designed later.

All the South African Focus' are crap, I've owned two and both have had issues.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

LV Focus build quality is junk, I have one too and it has nothing on my 2009 WS Fiesta, but technically the WS Fiesta is the newer car, it was designed later.

All the South African Focus' are crap, I've owned two and both have had issues.

my wife has a south african focus and my mother in law has one as well. both are great.

i bought a pen once. it was rubbish, therefore, all pens are rubbish.

[buickman]

Originally Posted by prydey

do you also own a 2010 mazda3? have you driven any other focus' or just yours? are you basing your opinion on just one focus out of the many thousands that are built?

I brought my wife a 2011 mazda 3 because she has had mostly Mazdas and they have never given any problems only accidents or hail have destroyed them .
They are built in Japan might have something to do with how their put together and not South Africa and if a car gives no issues you tend to stick to that make.