Supercharged 2010 GT

[GT69]

Originally Posted by SVTVNM

I know it's some time off, but I am curious as to how long before there's mention of any of this in any of the Auto mags.

Depends how many lazy journo's troll online forums i suppose

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

What part of my post "won't happen" ?

I did have the best part of a page written and deleted it after the mods made a warning. I can’t answer without involving the F6 and that will take this thread and probably me into the sin bin.

If you are interested I can PM though. Do apologies for my bluntness though.

[Kraziman]

If it is a 5L then think about this:

Should Ford get rid of the bonnet bulge if it's not required?
If not, will we see guys buying XR6/F6 bonnets to put on their XR8/GT?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I did have the best part of a page written and deleted it after the mods made a warning. I can’t answer without involving the F6 and that will take this thread and probably me into the sin bin.

If you are interested I can PM though. Do apologies for my bluntness though.

Please do send a pm if you have time, I am interested but I do understand the whole F6 vs GT sensitivity.

I was under the impression that not all GT will S/C, maybe I was wrong and if so, so be it.

I still feel the best choice is we manage to keep both on the market and I hope FPV find a way to do it.

If it is a 5L then think about this:

Should Ford get rid of the bonnet bulge if it's not required?
If not, will we see guys buying XR6/F6 bonnets to put on their XR8/GT?

Don't bring in the bulge argument, that always end in pain.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I did have the best part of a page written and deleted it after the mods made a warning. .

There's something rather disturbing at looking at your CP and seeing little red faces looking back at you... it's akin to modern day elephant stickers for being a good boy or a bad boy. Go on, you know you want to......

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Wally

There's something rather disturbing at looking at your CP and seeing little red faces looking back at you... it's akin to modern day elephant stickers for being a good boy or a bad boy. Go on, you know you want to......

Screw that, I am stuggling to attrack the green buggers. :evil3:

[WASP]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Screw that, I am stuggling to attrack the green buggers. :evil3:

Hi Ian, you're welcome to share that PM with me to mate . Also for while I noticed in a past signiature you had some figures that looked a little familar. I might be just imagining things however .

Colville

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by CDAA

Hi Ian, you're welcome to share that PM with me to mate . Also for while I noticed in a past signiature you had some figures that looked a little familar. I might be just imagining things however .

Colville

Hello Colville.

I have never ever put numbers in a signature. That space is purely reserved for degrading 6 cylinder comments :

And on that subject, to just clear up any confusion people might have, there is no future detail being discussed in PM.

It's boring stuff about price structure, business cases, history, sales, profit per unit, conspiracy theory and suppositions that just fall outside what should be discussed here.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by HSE2

.

It's boring stuff about price structure, business cases, history, sales, profit per unit, conspiracy theory and suppositions that just fall outside what should be discussed here.

I will back that up, all just mindless chit chat and theories. Unfortunately it is all about a subject that closes threads super fast.

[CAMS290]

If this talk comes to fruition, only a handful of people on these forums will be able to afford the aforementioned vehicle, but IF and WHEN it does happen it will give Ford (FPV) the shot in the arm that will make everyone from school kids to baby boomers stand up and take notice, and that can only be good for sales of all Ford cars.

I am really excited about the speculation, more so than when the BA 290's were about to be released.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Screw that, I am stuggling to attrack the green buggers. :evil3:

What are you going to do when the guf is full? Please tell me you are not really garnering smilies at the expense of substance. Crikey I'll give you a few if it's that important. :evil3:

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Wally

What are you going to do when the guf is full? Please tell me you are not really garnering smilies at the expense of substance. Crikey I'll give you a few if it's that important. :evil3:

What are you new here? :

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by mntxr

people may know this already but my boss is good mates with the fpv boss and what i was told by him today that there is 5 fg fpv gt sedans running around cambelfeild with the new full alloy 5.4 with supercharger to be released in a fg as a gt ho

Bah, that's nothing. Rod Barrett mows my lawns.


As has been pointed out in this thread I think people need to realise the difference between supercarger setups - Bluepower, Yella Terra et al all produce very good products but they are not, nor will they ever be, the sort of product that a company like FPV can supply and more importantly warrant for the life of a car. For those who are expecting a 400rwkw blown beast with FPV badges to come rolling out of Campbellfield I can assure you, you will be disappointed.

If this project goes ahead and we do see blown falcons, Id expect a modest torque increase across the range and a quiet, neat installation - nothing like what aftermarket setups offer now. Remember that FPV as a company have a lot of factors to take into consideration and some of the biggest will be NVH, power levels (they have to compete with HSV but also be careful not to recreate the Supercar Scare), insurance value (will those who buy it be able to insure it?) and above all reliability. Some people need to realise that FPV's involvement in a car build does not stop the moment it rolls out the door - it continues right up until the very last day of warranty.


As for the F6 vs Blown V8 debate, I disagree that the F6 was born out of disgruntled/disappointed V8 owners. They are two entirely different engines and around here at least, it's evident that the young guys who have grown up wanting a GTR etc but not being able to afford it are turning to an XR6T or F6 instead. I speak for myself in saying that my preference will always be for a V8 engine be it blown or not - I have a 290 now and while it's not as fast as a 6T 270, it doesnt mean Im going to jump into a Turbo when I buy the next car. Horses for courses, each to their own but I do think that both can survive alongside each other should the models be developed and this be the case.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Bah, that's nothing. Rod Barrett mows my lawns.


As has been pointed out in this thread I think people need to realise the difference between supercarger setups - Bluepower, Yella Terra et al all produce very good products but they are not, nor will they ever be, the sort of product that a company like FPV can supply and more importantly warrant for the life of a car. For those who are expecting a 400rwkw blown beast with FPV badges to come rolling out of Campbellfield I can assure you, you will be disappointed.

If this project goes ahead and we do see blown falcons, Id expect a modest torque increase across the range and a quiet, neat installation - nothing like what aftermarket setups offer now. Remember that FPV as a company have a lot of factors to take into consideration and some of the biggest will be NVH, power levels (they have to compete with HSV but also be careful not to recreate the Supercar Scare), insurance value (will those who buy it be able to insure it?) and above all reliability. Some people need to realise that FPV's involvement in a car build does not stop the moment it rolls out the door - it continues right up until the very last day of warranty.


As for the F6 vs Blown V8 debate, I disagree that the F6 was born out of disgruntled/disappointed V8 owners. They are two entirely different engines and around here at least, it's evident that the young guys who have grown up wanting a GTR etc but not being able to afford it are turning to an XR6T or F6 instead. I speak for myself in saying that my preference will always be for a V8 engine be it blown or not - I have a 290 now and while it's not as fast as a 6T 270, it doesnt mean Im going to jump into a Turbo when I buy the next car. Horses for courses, each to their own but I do think that both can survive alongside each other should the models be developed and this be the case.

Excellent post.

I think people need to realise that the S/C will not be something like a blue power of YT set up. Think more like a toyota TRD, modest S/C on a smaller capacity V8.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

If this talk comes to fruition, only a handful of people on these forums will be able to afford the aforementioned vehicle, but IF and WHEN it does happen it will give Ford (FPV) the shot in the arm that will make everyone from school kids to baby boomers stand up and take notice, and that can only be good for sales of all Ford cars.

I am really excited about the speculation, more so than when the BA 290's were about to be released.

Meh.........

I would never trade in the BFGT for a monumental loss to trade up to something with 40Kw more and with styling that doesn't excite me. It just doesn't make economic sense for the majority of us.........and unless this thing is REALLY going to be a balanced genuine supercar ( which it wont )........then the rest of us plebs still have some fantastic options to keep our BOSSes at the very pointy end of the performance arena.

I'm already 1/2 way to saving the required $$$ for my own S/C instal that will provide me with the nappy changes I need everytime I push the button. The technology is out there now for most punters, and there is enough competition to ensure a high quality aftermarket product that is proven to work with the current BOSS motor and provide spectacular results with easy ROOM TO MOVE upwards..............

A S/C ( HARROP ) FPV will be great for possibly lowering the prices of aftermarket kits to more acceptable levels as the factory competition possibly takes it toll on the smaller suppliers.

More choice for everyone............we all win............

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Excellent post.

I think people need to realise that the S/C will not be something like a blue power of YT set up. Think more like a toyota TRD, modest S/C on a smaller capacity V8.

Exactly............I've made mention of this many times before on this thread and many others. Some of the exagerated expectations here remind me of the 351Kw expectations for the FG BOSS !

[4Vman]

This engine is for the main stream GT... not the mythical "HO"

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This engine is for the main stream GT... not the mythical "HO"

Of course it is..........The "all spark cube" that will power the HO still has to be wrestled away from Megatron and he's keeping a tight grip on it.........

FPV need to pay OPTIMUS PRIME a little more $$$ in order for OPTIMUS to re assemble his strike team for a final assault..............

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by ESP

Of course it is..........The "all spark cube" that will power the HO still has to be wrestled away from Megatron and he's keeping a tight grip on it.........

FPV need to pay OPTIMUS PRIME a little more $$$ in order for OPTIMUS to re assemble his strike team for a final assault..............

I think I know what you mean, although I can't say I'm familiar with said characters; they sound like a bunch of telephone companies.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I think I know what you mean, although I can't say I'm familiar with said characters; they sound like a bunch of telephone companies.

Why can't I give rep points again.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by ESP

More choice for everyone............we all win............

Well no. Not really.

No car company wants to hear this sort of thinking because if its wide spread enough then they may as well shut up shop and we can stick with what we have till dooms day.


If people want to spend money in the aftermarket then that’s fine. It equates to a monumental loss anyway.

I understand people not accepting appearance but in this context we are talking about a product that hasn’t been revealed yet. Let’s give them a chance at least

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I think I know what you mean, although I can't say I'm familiar with said characters; they sound like a bunch of telephone companies.

LOL..........Transformers.........you know, the mechanical men that transform from robot to TRUCK , CAR, AIRPLANE...........just like the proposed GTHO............Science Fiction !!

[4Vman]

Aftermarket performance is irrelevant.... Totally irrelevant. Factory performance gets most punters excited, anyone can get to a desired performance number by spending money modifying their car, but its irrelevant.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Well no. Not really.

No car company wants to hear this sort of thinking because if its wide spread enough then they may as well shut up shop and we can stick with what we have till dooms day.


If people want to spend money in the aftermarket then that’s fine. It equates to a monumental loss anyway.

I understand people not accepting appearance but in this context we are talking about a product that hasn’t been revealed yet. Let’s give them a chance at least

Actually , methinks it will be a difficult car to sell if it ever comes to fruition...........the expectation already is that it will have superpowers and it will blow everything away......HSV , F6 , LAMBO and Ferrari included. If it underperforms against that criteria in the slightest and is overpriced , difficult to insure and costly to service then THAT is what will kill it..........not people's alternative spending on aftermarket products.

FPV have some serious thinking and work to do.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Aftermarket performance is irrelevant.... Totally irrelevant. Factory performance gets most punters excited, anyone can get to a desired performance number by spending money modifying their car, but its irrelevant.

I don't think so............most of the people that vote with their wallet and not with their keyboard already have an FPV purchase. It is this repeat buyer segment that needs to be convinced that the "new" offering is worth taking a hit for. There's stacks of people out there that would rather strap on a YT / Harrop or KB Blower to their 2 year old FPV than take a 30K hit on their purchase to upgrade..........The availability of that option is VERY relevant as it gives you a similar option to what is on offer.

In the absence of such aftermarket kits.........then I would entirely agree with you as the FACTORY product would offer something entirely unique with no other option available.............If you wanted a well engineered S/C V8...........FPV would be the only choice. However, that is not the case and the options are many and varied with some kits looking as factory and stealth as you'd like.

Personally , I'm much more excited at the prospect of the cheaper availability and widespread tuning , backup and service of these kits than any new offering from FPV.

If they bought out an AWD coupe with a High Powered S/C all alloy BLOCK V8 with some entirely new and exciting styling , then that would have me at the BANK MANAGER pronto.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ESP

I don't think so............most of the people that vote with their wallet and not with their keyboard already have an FPV purchase. It is this repeat buyer segment that needs to be convinced that the "new" offering is worth taking a hit for. There's stacks of people out there that would rather strap on a YT / Harrop or KB Blower to their 2 year old FPV than take a 30K hit on their purchase to upgrade..........The availability of that option is VERY relevant as it gives you a similar option to what is on offer.

In the absence of such aftermarket kits.........then I would entirely agree with you as the FACTORY product would offer something entirely unique with no other option available.............If you wanted a well engineered S/C V8...........FPV would be the only choice. However, that is not the case and the options are many and varied with some kits looking as factory and stealth as you'd like.

Id say a large % of FPV/HSV customers lease them and upgrade on a 3/4/5 year cycle, their upgrade choice is based on changing vehicles to keep reliability up and what's currently available, not what they can do to their old jigger to keep up with the latest product.
People will and do (rightly or wrongly) look at the factory numbers and get a sense of worth or credibility from them... modifying your car wont change its perception in the market....

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Id say a large % of FPV/HSV customers lease them and upgrade on a 3/4/5 year cycle,

Would be good to debate that if we had some real figures..........

I would certainly be interested in seeing what that split is.
Almost all of the FPV owners I know are private NON lease buyers.

The general market perception is more badge based than engine capacity.........to the average punter, a FPV is pretty much the same as the next one............especially when they share the same wheels........

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ESP

Would be good to debate that if we had some real figures..........

I would certainly be interested in seeing what that split is.
Almost all of the FPV owners I know are private NON lease buyers.

The general market perception is more badge based than engine capacity.........to the average punter, a FPV is pretty much the same as the next one............especially when they share the same wheels........

Yes it would be good to know..! id imaging its a significant number though.
Ive never been a fan of hanging on to cars past 100k's, most people would be the same, a daily driven vehicle would be getting close to that number by 4 years.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by ESP

Actually , methinks it will be a difficult car to sell if it ever comes to fruition...........the expectation already is that it will have superpowers and it will blow everything away......HSV , F6 , LAMBO and Ferrari included. If it underperforms against that criteria in the slightest and is overpriced , difficult to insure and costly to service then THAT is what will kill it..........not people's alternative spending on aftermarket products.

FPV have some serious thinking and work to do.

I can tell you FPV don’t have the budget to be driving around in a product that won’t make it to market. As for expectation, from their perspective, they can only worry about what they can control.

At euro 3 FPV power levels went how far?

Zip - nothing. We got a power increase last year so simple logic really wouldn't indicate that a change in spec for euro compliance would automatically lead to any power increase.

There are huge advantages to having a power plant that has been backed off but the simple fact that the engine will be all alloy, well that alone will be the biggest single difference in our V8 history.

The GT brand is a core brand. To be otherwise would require it to be repositioned in a similar way to what HSV did with the GTS. Again there is no real indicators to suggest this will be so. Expect a GT that will fight against the clubsport and expect it to fight against a clubsport packing 327kws. That means comparable pricing and performance.

If they those are the baselines for people expectations I think they will be reasonably impressed and if they aren't, well god help FPV because clearly we can't.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ESP

I don't think so............most of the people that vote with their wallet and not with their keyboard already have an FPV purchase. It is this repeat buyer segment that needs to be convinced that the "new" offering is worth taking a hit for. There's stacks of people out there that would rather strap on a YT / Harrop or KB Blower to their 2 year old FPV than take a 30K hit on their purchase to upgrade..........The availability of that option is VERY relevant as it gives you a similar option to what is on offer.

In the absence of such aftermarket kits.........then I would entirely agree with you as the FACTORY product would offer something entirely unique with no other option available.............If you wanted a well engineered S/C V8...........FPV would be the only choice. However, that is not the case and the options are many and varied with some kits looking as factory and stealth as you'd like.

Personally , I'm much more excited at the prospect of the cheaper availability and widespread tuning , backup and service of these kits than any new offering from FPV.

If they bought out an AWD coupe with a High Powered S/C all alloy BLOCK V8 with some entirely new and exciting styling , then that would have me at the BANK MANAGER pronto.

I do see the logic in what you are saying, to some point I even agree with you. Where I disagree is the market impact that the "should I buy new or should I modify?" group will have on future GT sales. You suggest it will be a significant impact and if the factory S/C does not offer figures close to the aftermarket kits, it will lose out on this segment of the market. Yes there is a proportion of the market that will have that train of thought, but it is only very small and probably not even considered in the assessment of the business case by FPV.

Example, out of all the BA and BF series GT's that were sold, how many were modified before the end of their warranty period by their first owner. The figure would be not very many and virtually nil were taken to S/C despite kits being available since '03 or '04. The point is the average person that buys a new FPV and the market FPV wish to attract is not interested in spending $10k modifying a 2-3 year old car and no warranty. They want off the shelf performance with full factory backing, something the aftermarket scene cannot compete with.

The segment of the market that seriously consider aftermarket S/C and huge power outputs is not something FPV wish to compete in, they are too expensive to deal in, the cost of the car is too much, not enough sell and warranty is a nightmare (just think W427). This is not a place they wish to go.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Example, out of all the BA and BF series GT's that were sold, how many were modified before the end of their warranty period by their first owner. The figure would be not very many and virtually nil were taken to S/C despite kits being available since '03 or '04.

That's exactly my point........in 03 - 04 they were a new thing to the general consumer as an "off the shelf " proposition. The BOSS V8 was a brand new engine platform and not many people knew what they were doing with it........even getting an aftermarket exhaust was a risky proposition.

5 years later there are exhaust shops with BOSS catbacks hanging from every rafter........3 major S/C options , and many more shops and fitters available to do the work properly.

Hypothetically.......If in 2010 , YT could offer a stage 1 non intercooled kit for less than 7K fitted by a reputable shop......or....10K intercooled......what would you do ??

Would you trade and lose 30+K..................or buy outright for 70+ K........

If Y/T , KB , Harrop etc all got very aggresive in their marketing on the back of a FACTORY FPV S/C offering , I think we may have a very interesting couple of years ahead...........Remember that there will also be potential FG XR8 owners and buyers out there as well that are also considering similar options.

I'm also wondering if the potential FPV S/C V8 owner will be satisfied in a product that merely matches the alternative offering from HSV.......a N/A clubsport. As HSE2 alluded to........it may be what FPV are aiming for......equal / similar performance. Don't know about you, but there's just something mentally and emotionally disappointing about a perceived premium S/C application being equalled by a N/A one ????

Methinks the HSV marketing machine will have a field day............ :