Are We Being Too Harsh And Critial Of Ford Australia

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I sometimes wonder if we bash Ford when they are actually doing the right thing:
1) Canceling XR8......about 800 sedans in 2009 and 300 odd in 2010
2) Slowing the line down and reducing staff to right size the Factory
3) Waiting to get EcoLPI ready for production and not releasing a "problem child".

1. Not having the XR8 replacement ready was the wrong thing. Those sales lost represent about 5% of production. Be handy right now. Between the I6T and the V8 they should be accounting for 20% of total sales. Marketing and having the product available needs to fix that. Was it you that said, get the Mustang GT and Falcon XR8 next to each other at the motorshow. "Falcon with Mustang HEART".

2. Right thing to do, but timing is everything. This should have been done in January. Right now, it gives the impression, that the new EcoLPi and SZ erri with diesel isn't going to lift sales. They will, but we live in a very superficial world where perception is reality. If they put the premium sound on the XR6 and it's colour screen, ipod connectivity, plus 18" alloys the XR6 would be even more competitive. I think VE2 with it's touch screen tech update and 18" alloys has really caught Ford out. Real shame as the XR6 is the better car.

3. EcoLPi. Fully developing it deserves praise. Credit that it has been pulled as far forward as it can be does too. But due to the I6 >V6 > I6 flipflop it is way late. Needs to be marketed hard to overcome LPG prejudices.

Originally Posted by jpd80

From what we're told Ford's engineering team is being kept on the hop with lots of work, I think we should be glad that they are given constant work compared to the very cyclical nature of just a few years ago when work ebbed and flowed depending on the local vehicle product cycle and scheduled upgrades.

Great to see the engineering side are busy indeed. Hugely busy it seems! One Ford and the technology systems / drivers is really helping in this regard as they contribute information to the Ford design 'vault' as i've heard it referred to.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sure the factory is running along much slower these day but the fact that Ford is still persevering with the local product says that the brass must be impressed with how FoA is controlling costs and squeezing every dollar.

If FoA can get through these tight couple of months, I'd expect Territory and EcoLPI will set them up for increased production levels in the second half of the year..

Right now is tight at the factory. Too tight. SZ Territory and EcoLPi should / will contribute to increased volume, but FG2 can't come soon enough. Hopefully September / October.

I'm sure the brass is impressed with FoA squeezing the dollars, but that can go too far. As per the tech/wheels on the FG. Small additions would cost Ford an extra 300-500 per car. But they wouldn't have to drop the driveaway price by $1000 and be selling less cars.

Same with the SZ Territory. The interior looks terrific and functional. They you see the TX has the monochrome ICC which is very ordinary. It's a 40k car. WHY oh why? They should have used the FG premium ICC screen as the base TX and the new UNREAL touchscreen for the TS/Titanium as they have done. So, 2 out of 3.

One Ford means the cars will have segment leading fuel economy and technology as well as maintaining best in class ride / handling. This will take time, but the rapid rise of the imported Ford product sales is the start. Falcon and Territory need the same sales and marketing impetus with none of the 'shortchanging'.

[jpd80]

Great post Phil, I think Ford need to back themselves at the moment, work through
reducing Falcon backlog and then they should go on the offensive and release FG II ASAP.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

You can have your opinion - when it becomes sexist...that's when I take offense, which I did.

How does that become sexist it`s a fact whether MY partner was a he or a she in this case my partner is a she. It could have been a guy but it wasn`t. I`m sorry i don`t date guys so get over it.

[Franco Cozzo]

all the negative points I've brought up in this thread, I'm quite curious about the 4 cylinder Falcon, the new Ranger and the new Focus (why isn't that here NOW?).

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by phillyc

1. Not having the XR8 replacement ready was the wrong thing. Those sales lost represent about 5% of production. Be handy right now. Between the I6T and the V8 they should be accounting for 20% of total sales. Marketing and having the product available needs to fix that. Was it you that said, get the Mustang GT and Falcon XR8 next to each other at the motorshow. "Falcon with Mustang HEART".

2. Right thing to do, but timing is everything. This should have been done in January. Right now, it gives the impression, that the new EcoLPi and SZ erri with diesel isn't going to lift sales. They will, but we live in a very superficial world where perception is reality. If they put the premium sound on the XR6 and it's colour screen, ipod connectivity, plus 18" alloys the XR6 would be even more competitive. I think VE2 with it's touch screen tech update and 18" alloys has really caught Ford out. Real shame as the XR6 is the better car.

3. EcoLPi. Fully developing it deserves praise. Credit that it has been pulled as far forward as it can be does too. But due to the I6 >V6 > I6 flipflop it is way late. Needs to be marketed hard to overcome LPG prejudices.

Great to see the engineering side are busy indeed. Hugely busy it seems! One Ford and the technology systems / drivers is really helping in this regard as they contribute information to the Ford design 'vault' as i've heard it referred to.

Right now is tight at the factory. Too tight. SZ Territory and EcoLPi should / will contribute to increased volume, but FG2 can't come soon enough. Hopefully September / October.

I'm sure the brass is impressed with FoA squeezing the dollars, but that can go too far. As per the tech/wheels on the FG. Small additions would cost Ford an extra 300-500 per car. But they wouldn't have to drop the driveaway price by $1000 and be selling less cars.

Same with the SZ Territory. The interior looks terrific and functional. They you see the TX has the monochrome ICC which is very ordinary. It's a 40k car. WHY oh why? They should have used the FG premium ICC screen as the base TX and the new UNREAL touchscreen for the TS/Titanium as they have done. So, 2 out of 3.

One Ford means the cars will have segment leading fuel economy and technology as well as maintaining best in class ride / handling. This will take time, but the rapid rise of the imported Ford product sales is the start. Falcon and Territory need the same sales and marketing impetus with none of the 'shortchanging'.

Let say they sell 24,000 FG sedans this year, 800 XR8's would only equate to 3.3 % rough figures..

But in saying that they will be lucky to sell 200 GS's at the rate they are going, plus XR8 sold better in ute guise, they usually sold 800 - 1000 XR8 utes a year.

I personally think there was still a business case for XR8, when you look at FPV sales.. You add FPV and XR8 together and you soon get 10%.

[svo supporter]

Look out. All this debate about needing driving courses if you change from a RWD to a FWD and the effects of Torque steer. Geez, next there will be races within shopping centre carparks to see which person is quicker in what sort of car, when it comes to getting into and out of a carpark as a result of all this training.

What a load of crock. If you drive a car sensibily, it doesn't matter if it's a RWD, FWD or AWD. They all act the same. It's only when you start being a knob, or going onto a race track, the charastics of the car need to be known. Or should I say, where it's got Torque steer or it steers via the back wheels, or all 4 wheels.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Let say they sell 24,000 FG sedans this year, 800 XR8's would only equate to 3.3 % rough figures..

But in saying that they will be lucky to sell 200 GS's at the rate they are going, plus XR8 sold better in ute guise, they usually sold 800 - 1000 XR8 utes a year.

I personally think there was still a business case for XR8, when you look at FPV sales.. You add FPV and XR8 together and you soon get 10%.

Agreed. Yes, I was factoring in the Ute sales. Agreed, the XR8 ute sold in similar numbers to the sedan, despite the sedan outselling the ute 3:1 or thereabouts. In the end, you have 24,000 sedans and 8,000 utes. With 1600 XR8. Spot on 5% for XR8.

Now there should be 2,000 sales of FPV spread across sedan and ute categories and included in the total of 32,000. V8 to I6 sales for FPV are 2:1 so there is a further 1300 V8's. That is about 4%. Total would be 9% with old XR8 volumes.

Ford should be doing 20% V8. To grow the business, Ford need a successful XR8 and G8E. Right now, they are doing 4%. Another 16% business is 5,000 more sales. Be it, FPV or XR8 or G8E.

If Ford don't know what they need to do. Maybe they could actually ring the last 3 years worth of V8 customers and ask?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Agreed. Yes, I was factoring in the Ute sales. Agreed, the XR8 ute sold in similar numbers to the sedan, despite the sedan outselling the ute 3:1 or thereabouts. In the end, you have 24,000 sedans and 8,000 utes. With 1600 XR8. Spot on 5% for XR8.

Now there should be 2,000 sales of FPV spread across sedan and ute categories and included in the total of 32,000. V8 to I6 sales for FPV are 2:1 so there is a further 1300 V8's. That is about 4%. Total would be 9% with old XR8 volumes.

Ford should be doing 20% V8. To grow the business, Ford need a successful XR8 and G8E. Right now, they are doing 4%. Another 16% business is 5,000 more sales. Be it, FPV or XR8 or G8E.

If Ford don't know what they need to do. Maybe they could actually ring the last 3 years worth of V8 customers and ask?

Ford will be lucky to sell 1200 FPV's this year.. They wont build any and stock them, so anyone who wants one now will be waiting to sometime in August the rumour is...

Its a joke, but I just wonder if they are doing this all for a reason... Make Falcon look bad so its easier to wipe their hands of it, instead of busting their backsides to make it work, then use the old no ones buying big sedans excuse when Ford Us ask the question... Sounds a bit cynical I know but someones playing a game.

[jpd80]

The other thing to remember is that last year, XR6T sales also tapered off significantly
and this is probably why Ford is a little cautious about reintroducing another XR8.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea but perhaps Ford feels that other models should have
priority over a vehicle which clearly has fewer buyer numbers each time around....

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The other thing to remember is that last year, XR6T sales also tapered off significantly
and this is probably why Ford is a little cautious about reintroducing another XR8.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea but perhaps Ford feels that other models should have
priority over a vehicle which clearly has fewer buyer numbers each time around....

XR6 Turbo has lost its credibility somewhat, I don't know why? Perhaps the Fords are just too under equiped, or so many people that had bought BA / BF's on leases got burnt with poor quality / bad dealer service that they just refuse to buy them again?

[Joe5619]

XR6T is a beautiful car & I currently own one. But it drinks just like a V8 & I'm close to selling mine. 80-90 bucks a week to travel 375-385 kms a week. It is allot of money. When people ask me about my car the stand line is "Beautiful car, but it drinks".. And not to mention I drove into the petrol station yesterday & the price of Vpower shell was $1.70/L… Nearly fell over!!

People just don’t want to spend money on petrol these days..

[Road_Warrior]

This is where I reckon Ford could kick a massive goal and bring out an LPi variant of the XR6T. We know it can be done, because the aftermarket does it, and does it well. However I suspect that the XR6T's fortunes may also be lagging because when people drop that sort of coin on that sort of car, they expect more than a turbo donk and a colour screen in the dash. If the new gadgets in the SZ Territory are anything to go by, then we can expect an interior content update for FGII.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

This is where I reckon Ford could kick a massive goal and bring out an LPi variant of the XR6T. We know it can be done, because the aftermarket does it, and does it well. However I suspect that the XR6T's fortunes may also be lagging because when people drop that sort of coin on that sort of car, they expect more than a turbo donk and a colour screen in the dash. If the new gadgets in the SZ Territory are anything to go by, then we can expect an interior content update for FGII.

Well if you look at VE we should see a content up date in everything from XT up...

Thats if they even keep XT.

[Road_Warrior]

I'm betting the XT will be gone come FGII. G6 will become the new base model.

[Brazen]

I think a base model will remain, it may not be called XT, but it will be the equivalent. With new ECoLPI and EcoBoost they need a model to get the fleets back.

Even Toyota admitted they 'featured up' the current Camry Hybrid too much, next model there will be a cheaper base model to target fleets.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Ford will be lucky to sell 1200 FPV's this year.. They wont build any and stock them, so anyone who wants one now will be waiting to sometime in August the rumour is...

Its a joke, but I just wonder if they are doing this all for a reason... Make Falcon look bad so its easier to wipe their hands of it, instead of busting their backsides to make it work, then use the old no ones buying big sedans excuse when Ford Us ask the question... Sounds a bit cynical I know but someones playing a game.

I don't think it is cynical at all.

Just think back to the days when Geoff Polites was in charge of FoA. Things were looking great for Ford and then the next thing he gets shifted to Europe and we get another yank that starts sending FoA south again.

In comes Marin Burela, a man that IMO given long enough in the job would have turned the fortunes of Ford around again. As he was a man that DID let people now what path they were taking.

But in true form from head office, he gets moved on and we get another one of their cronies that just seems to be running it into the ground.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

I don't think it is cynical at all.

Just think back to the days when Geoff Polites was in charge of FoA. Things were looking great for Ford and then the next thing he gets shifted to Europe and we get another yank that starts sending FoA south again.

In comes Marin Burela, a man that IMO given long enough in the job would have turned the fortunes of Ford around again. As he was a man that DID let people now what path they were taking.

But in true form from head office, he gets moved on and we get another one of their cronies that just seems to be running it into the ground.

The issue isn't so much the people themselves, as it is a lack of continuity of leadership. Each man in the top job made a judgment call on things based on the information he had available to him at the time, and how he felt things should work for Ford in the future. But being leader, you also reserve the right to change things if you don't agree with the strategic direction - it comes back to that professional judgement again. Each President made good and not so good decisions IMO (and yes that includes GP and MB).

You're entirely correct that Dearborn is to blame for continually head hunting Ford Australia's leaders and parachuting someone in who doesn't understand our market or products and needs to spend time to learn about them. By the time that happens, they get moved on again!

[Fordman1]

Marin Burela is an A1 leader...

Although the team aspect is important, he rules with an iron fist.

Geoff Polites was similair.

Tom Gorman ? A fluffy fool.

Bob Graziano ? Lets see what his epitaph says.

It seems like he has let the Sales and Marketing team run amok. Marin used to have daily sales meetings with those blokes (and keep them accountable), this guy doesn't keep the pressure on like Marin did !!

[Road_Warrior]

What about Osborne? Although he wasn't in the job long enough.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

I don't think it is cynical at all.

Just think back to the days when Geoff Polites was in charge of FoA. Things were looking great for Ford and then the next thing he gets shifted to Europe and we get another yank that starts sending FoA south again.

In comes Marin Burela, a man that IMO given long enough in the job would have turned the fortunes of Ford around again. As he was a man that DID let people now what path they were taking.

But in true form from head office, he gets moved on and we get another one of their cronies that just seems to be running it into the ground.

But it has nothing to do with the economy does it?

In 2003 money grew on trees and expensive new toys were plentiful.
Right now money is very short so many are either waiting a while or buying cheaper.

Remember the MAJORITY of new FPVs are sold to someone who is at least partially claiming them against some taxable income.

As I learned many years ago, the first rule of motor vehicle ownership...... no mon, no fun....

The current FPV range is by far the best and most affordable EVER and we are bloody lucky to have such a range.

Remember the slowest cheapest FPV is quicker than the fastest most expansive HSV......

[z80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

XR6T is a beautiful car & I currently own one. But it drinks just like a V8 & I'm close to selling mine. 80-90 bucks a week to travel 375-385 kms a week. It is allot of money. When people ask me about my car the stand line is "Beautiful car, but it drinks".. And not to mention I drove into the petrol station yesterday & the price of Vpower shell was $1.70/L… Nearly fell over!!

People just don’t want to spend money on petrol these days..

I am thinking of getting one an XR6T as my next car later this year.

Yours is the first post i've seen that says they are thirsty.

Are you driving it as if you stole it or what?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by z80

I am thinking of getting one an XR6T as my next car later this year.

Yours is the first post i've seen that says they are thirsty.

Are you driving it as if you stole it or what?

Well... I'm not driving like a grand mom, but I'm not totally thrushing it all the time..

I've also read people getting 12-13L/100 (no idea how they get that low), but I have NEVER gotten anything close to that on my daily metro driving.. If you do most of your driving in metro areas (like me), you'll be getting 15L+/100 on average. Dont get me wrong, very very beatiful car, just be prepared to spend a few extras dollars on fuel each week.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Well... I'm not driving like a grand mom, but I'm not totally thrushing it all the time..

I've also read people getting 12-13L/100 (no idea how they get that low), but I have NEVER gotten anything close to that on my daily metro driving.. If you do most of your driving in metro areas (like me), you'll be getting 15L+/100 on average. Dont get me wrong, very very beatiful car, just be prepared to spend a few extras dollars on fuel each week.

The other half's is sitting at 11.3/100 at the moment, all metro driving - usually high 10's...and he likes to give it a bootful occasionally. Granted it is a ute, but it's usually chock to the brim with painting gear, 580k's (approx) before the low fuel warning comes on - something is definitely amiss here...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

But it has nothing to do with the economy does it?

In 2003 money grew on trees and expensive new toys were plentiful.
Right now money is very short so many are either waiting a while or buying cheaper.

Remember the MAJORITY of new FPVs are sold to someone who is at least partially claiming them against some taxable income.

As I learned many years ago, the first rule of motor vehicle ownership...... no mon, no fun....

The current FPV range is by far the best and most affordable EVER and we are bloody lucky to have such a range.

Remember the slowest cheapest FPV is quicker than the fastest most expansive HSV......

I like to keep positive Flappist, but just quickly, are you going to buy an FPV when your next purchase comes up?

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I like to keep positive Flappist, but just quickly, are you going to buy an FPV when your next purchase comes up?

Twice bitten, thrice shy? Hahah

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Yeah you would know. Another 'Assumption'
FFS a FWD car will perform the same with everyday driving there is next to no difference
I had a TE50 before my XR5 and daily duties there is no difference but when pushed they go about the business differently. My Focus only Torque steers when provoked and its tuned. A quaife will fix that if needed.
How about you get some 'real' world experience before making 'assumptions'.

He is too busy picking the gravel out of his knuckles.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Well if you look at VE we should see a content up date in everything from XT up...

Thats if they even keep XT.

When you look at what the latest Wheels is suggesting the new VF Commodore will be able to tap into for upgrades and features, Ford should just throw everything, but the kitchen sink into Falcon and make hay while the sun shines.

The car only has three years to go anyway. Might as well get some volume sales, as this boutique market Ford has got itself into is now getting a little too boutique for a mass manufacturer.

The 50th specs need to come back as standard in FGII.

Put the 50th trim in a GS and I am sold.

Dan

[FERG_51]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

I don't think it is cynical at all.

Just think back to the days when Geoff Polites was in charge of FoA. Things were looking great for Ford and then the next thing he gets shifted to Europe and we get another yank that starts sending FoA south again.

In comes Marin Burela, a man that IMO given long enough in the job would have turned the fortunes of Ford around again. As he was a man that DID let people now what path they were taking.

But in true form from head office, he gets moved on and we get another one of their cronies that just seems to be running it into the ground.

I could be way of the mark, but this is how it looks to me as well.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The 50th specs need to come back as standard in FGII.

Put the 50th trim in a GS and I am sold.

Dan

Yes. 50th anniversary specs would be great in FG2 but add the 8" touchscreen ICC and iPOD connectivity etc from the SZ Territory for all except XT (if it is kept).

PS Email Ford about the GS and 5oth trim.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm betting the XT will be gone come FGII. G6 will become the new base model.

I've been of the opinion that Falcon could survive globally if it was taken to a more premium level. By not starting a design with XT, they can make the car more competitive.

Ford has also been investing heaps in technology. So lets hope more of that tech streams into Falcon and territory to keep this generation happy.